subaruguru

Many folks, including myself, find Alleve (naproxen sodium) to be better tolerated by their GI than ibuprofen or aspirin. You can easily get cheap scripts for 250 and 500mg tabs, and can take 1.5g/day for a week, tapering to 1/2 or 1/3 ad infinitum, as I do to prevent flares of psoriatic arthritis.

Phil, Interesting distribution in that it's more centered around 1.0 than I expected, given the conventional wisdom, eh? Yet it's still skewed sufficiently to the right to bear further investigation of these highest values raw components. As Leon suggests, if many of them indicate high AM winds then for our purposes of whether to paddle or not they may be considered outliers and the distribution becomes even more normalized! I'd also like to see an overlay of the two AM and PM curves, or even a sequential one where one could look at possible trends lasting more than a 24 hr data window. One reason is that I wonder if AM and PM longer-term trends are independent of each other. Do you have the data as 45 days' simple AM and PM duos? That's a big enough sample pool for Leon to play with to study correlation and possibly variance analysis too.

Anyone have trip ideas for this weekend? Both Saturday and Sunday appear clear and finally a bit crisper.

Solidifying plans? Ern

Too funny. I had originally assumed that there were THREE states in the original example: 1/3 calm, 1/3 rough, and 1/3 "average" seas. Hence MY confusion.

Hi folks. Re IoS last time: After we collectively witnessed those tourists in their rowboats getting rescued while lunching on IoS a couple of weeks ago I DO remember our Smuttynose'd caretaker volunteering the generalization that "the winds pick up in the afternoon". Although she's a part-time caretaker, lacking other evidence, it would seem reasonable to give her statement strong credence, maybe even more-so than your anecdotal evidence of 4, perhaps even 5 of 6 trip returns being flat. Oh well. I now find the initial statistical suppositions incomprehensible, but that may be because Ty confused the issue in response. But now I wonder why it matters? Barring reasonably high confidence in a previously-unknown bias statement like: higher winds in afternoon return seas, a decision to repeat a similar trip when initial conditions are flat and have stayed that way 2/3+ of the time seems like a pretty good bet. This is of course only in the absence of the probablility of rising seas' weather predictions, the timing of which is not always time-correlated strongly enough to not become a nuisance anyway, as we found out. Hope I'm not bending your thread, Leon.

Suz, Per my PM count me in, already suited. Ern

Hi Jason, I don't know exactly when Paypal decides that one of its payments is immediate or "e-check", but I suppose it's triggered by whether there's a positive Paypal balance in the account or whether it has to use the funding debit or credit card. But since THAT"S immediate payment to Paypal too I don't understand the reason for the delay, as no "check" was mailed or sent that might require the decision for a "hold" period. Huh.... Not a big deal, but it'd be nice to be able to PM soon. Thanks for your help. Ern

Hi Jason, Think I paid via Paypal a WEEK ago by now, but still not listed as paid. Can you check? Thanks. Ern

Hi Rick, I Paypalled several days ago, but STILL can't start threads nor send PM's, apparently until an "e-check" clears, so you might have to be patient too. I hope to join in next weekend as well. Ern

Hey Leon, Did you SuperGlue that tongue in your cheek? I was going to join Rick S et al at Odiorne tomorrow at noon, but he canceled Did you get to paddle today (Sat)? Up for Tuck's Mon or Tues? Ern

I'm 50/50 as I may have to work. Ern

Jason, Christopher, et al. Given that it has been established that our rear trio maintained a 2.7 knot pace on our return it's not clear that the prior labeling of the trip as either L3 or L4 would have precluded Gene's attendance. The proof is in the pudding: the group separated for reasons NOT having to do with inability to maintain a reasonable pace. There will always be faster and slower paddlers, and group effort to stay together simply failed as a fearful paddler raced ahead (with protector), a trailing duo changed course, and the rear trio stayed on original course. Eventually we'll synthesize a conclusion that includes whether or not the trip should've taken place because of other criteria, such as timing, whether, less-experienced paddler, etc. If the rear trio had only been able to maintain, let's say, a 1 knot pace due to inexperience or physical inability then that would be another matter. Likewise if a paddler had slowed to "stall" speed due to illness or injury. But our GPS data shows that reasonable time was made, which earlier seemed to be masked (at least to me) by the "noise" of all the VERTICAL movement! This is indeed LESS about Gene than is portrayed by responders lately.... Ern

I'd love to join you, but I fear I won't be able to finish the 19 questions in time for the briefing. Actually, I have a date with friends to tour the Water Fire stuff in Providence. Next time.

Paid yesterday, but still can't send PMs. How long does it take for the system to register payment and unlock the restrictions? Thanks. Suz, I simply wanted to volunteer to help you at the CRCK Cold Water Workshop, if you'd like. Ern

[quote name='GCosloy' date='Sep 23 2010, 07:48 PM' pos My GPS log shows 13.4NM and a moving average of 2.9K. Given that Leon and I were mostly lost in conversation on the way out and paddling slowly it is entirely conceivable to me that the leg back was paddled close to 3K or greater. ....It's interesting that given the height of the seas it was very difficult for me to judge forward progress. All Bev and I knew (neither had a GPS) was that Shari and Bob were pulling away from us, further confirming that our progress seemed pretty slow. (I can now understand Lisa's reticence to turn north given that her GPS indicated steady progress along the beam.) As Bev and I had turned a full 100 degrees to full north about 2/3 the way back, our recorded track was probably closer to 8 or even 9NM, in about what, 3 hours? I don't remember when he finished lunch. So I suppose we managed roughly 2.7-3 knots, not bad given the vertical motion. (Makes me now wonder if there's a sensitive enough GPS that can integrate 3D motion and thus calculate total movement?) Thanks for your cogent and well-reasoned response, as usual. I'm still oscillating between the "this is how you stretch the envelope to expand your skills" and "there's no way you should've gone" response extremes received from the club elders, although the latter seems to be the consensus, confirmed also by CAM protocol. But now I'm told it wasn't a "CAM" trip?! Oy vey.

Did you or Shari have a knife? ERN: Yes. I did.

I was trying to renew on my own, but couldn't find a link until Chris told me it was under "Join NSPN". Wish there was a simple "RENEW" tab. Finally done....

Tiny points of clarification: I'm involved in all the issues in this paragraph. I think we were just beginning to realize that things looked bad, and I remember us trying to organize a formation with me or Leon as sweep, you or Bev (GPS monitors) as points, and Gene, Shari, and Ernie was the middle section. Leon was already in the sweep position and so I moved up and remember telling Ernie to stay with Shari. She was in a new boat which is never easy. I was maybe 50-100 feet behind them, thinking to return to a back position, when I saw Shari bobble on a high wave. I sensed she was going over before she actually did, and started out after her. Then someone yelled that she was in the water, maybe it was me? ....No, that was me. Apparently I yelled loudly enough that even Leon back in the sweep position said he heard me when we discussed it Tuesday. Anyway, as per Rick C Chebacco lake instructions, I aimed for the bow of her kayak and reached it before Leon. She was at the back of the kayak, and I asked her if she was OK. Ernie was also close by, ERN...............When Shari capsized I yelled, then advanced to her stern, assuring that she had a handle on it and was ok. Since I was in-line with her I PERHAPS should have simply advanced to raft up, but instead failed in trying to turn perpendicular to T-up, both because of the beam waves (she wasn't tossed by a rogue, but simply one of the very frequent (3sec) 4-6 footers), and that my skeg was fully down. By that time Bob was able to advance from enough distance behind so as to approach perpendicularly and form the T. I stayed presenting my bow a Shari's stern because it was unclear that she looked ok there, soon to realize that she was tangled in her strap. Once she disentangled She (and maybe Bob too) asked me to retreat. ...and since Shari did not have a helmet (none of us did), I had a real concern that she could get hit with his kayak. I was about to ask her assistance in turning her kayak over, when I realized that she was entangled on the end of the kayak. Just as I was about to walk-paddle my kayak around to the back in order to help disentangle her - and present another dangerous bow in the vicinity of her head - she managed to get free. That would have been tricky anyway since her boat was still upside down and I couldnt right it with her attached. Also, I would lose my very stable T and have kayaks in parallel while I went around to the back. Every distraction increased the probability of getting knocked over myself. I may have asked Ernie to help her at this point. ERN....I don't remember hearing anything, but I saw her get disentangled soon after you (Bob) were draining her kayak. That's when she told me she was ok and I should/could retreat so as to not bonk her. Leon had not arrived by this time. I stayed in the vicinity not being sure whether to secure the stern of either boat, or whether to raft up. Assuming (oh boy) the rescue was under control, I looked around to see that Lisa, and Bev were ok. I don't remember seeing the second emptying maneuver nor Leon's arrival, so I can't comment on the second half of the complete rescue, as I was probably still focused on Lisa, and starting to wonder where Gene was.... ...... It turns out that her spray skirt loop had entangled on the back toggle of her boat. Anyway she was doing OK and I flipped the boat with the two-hand twist; again as I had seen done by Rick. One major concern was paddle management, which has always bothered me in T-rescues. I hate to have my paddle hanging by a deck line off the bow of the kayak. I recently bought a contact tow, with a velcro strap for the express purpose of wrapping both the rescuer's and swimmer's paddles during a rescue. I've even practiced with it in surf rescues with Blaine Bjornstad. The strap was sitting right in front of me, but for some reason I was reluctant to take the time, or more likely just uneasy about not having my paddle free in those conditions. We could have all been tossed at any time, and I just couldn't tie up my paddle. I've thought a lot about not using that strap. Instead I put both Shari's and my paddles under my outside arm and proceeded. She was in a good position where I could see her, and probably hanging onto my boat, as I lifted her kayak across mine and drained it. However, just as I was rotating it back to set up the reentry, a wave hit her kayak and filled it with water again. The very same thing happened to me during one of the practice sessions with Blaine (that I mentioned above) in the surf off Lynch park in Beverly. It is not a very comfortable event because the benefit of the T-rescue, namely the very stable T, is now working against you as a that lever takes the force of the wave. Also, if you lose the grip, the boat could fly into your swimmer. I think the solution is to watch carefully for waves and time the flip over appropriately, but in these conditions that was not easy. In this case I held on and simply repeated the drain from scratch. I put the kayak in the appropriate front-to-back orientation quickly to avoid having that sharp bow free and pointing at me. I definitely committed to her kayak and was telling Shari to put her outside leg over for the roll up onto the back, when Leon came up. I was really grateful he was there and felt that we were better off rafted up. Besides having a more stable platform, I did not really have a good grip on our paddles under my arm, and as I committed to secure Shari's kayak I felt them slip a little. I may have even mentioned that to him. Shari got back in and settled quickly; and we even took a little time to catch our breath before separating. I'll post my observations on the second pod separation, entanglement and beach landing in separate postings. I would really be interested in people's opinion of how the rescue could have been performed better. ERN: I've been told by principals at CRCK that I should've immediately rafted up with Shari because the seas were too rough for a closely-following kayak to advance in only 20-30 feet and TURN to form a T. I'm glad they understood my difficulty implicitly, as it was very frustrating. After rafting, I would presumably work up the length of her kayak to its bow, then try to rotate to form a T. I'm not sure how suvccessful this would've been given the beam hammers. In hindsight because you had enough distance to turn squarely and approach more steadily, FACING the waves into her beam to form the T I can understand an argument where a minimum of 3 in a pod could highly be recommended. But this an aside. In conversations yesterday with Shari it became clear that she became adrenalized following her rescue, and was able to make very quick headway, with you along her side. Bev and I had greater difficulty staying at 270 (beam sea), so a gap opened up between us, soon getting large enough to be out of shouting distance. Somewhere in this I heard Leon on the radio suggesting we turn to the right (north) to make better progress. It was unclear to me how far behind the "trio" was, so Bev and I continued a while longer at 270, which turned slightly to 260, then 240. Eventually you and Shari were no longer in sight (Shari confirmed this from her perspective too), and we finally turned fully north at 0 deg and rode the big waves in, constantly searching for you two, but eventually getting close enough to shore to then focus on landing safely. A beach with only 2 footers presented itself so we landed sans drama, about 3/4 mi north of you. It is unclear to me how much of the 3/4 mi separation was due to difference in speed or direction, but there's no question that Shari's new Atlantic LV is a quick craft in heavy seas, as confirmed also by the folks at CRCK ("it's a moderately fast boat in flat seas that simply doesn't sloe down in heavy seas"). Bob can more comment as to whether he was working hard to match Shari's speed, or whether he thinks our separation had more to do with a variation of our angles. Bev probably could shed some light on these aspects, of course, but it certainly seemed like we were making poor progress at c 260 compared with 0 of course. Hope this helps. Ern I'm hugely relieved that we all got home safe, and believe that it is due to all the participants' basic paddling skills and expertise - which certainly for me is due to NSPN. I think mistakes were made that we are all considering in great detail, but this was not a panicked race for the shoreline. We were looking out for each other. Bob

David, Leon et al will add more info, but I remember checking the hourly forecast data for Rye Harbor the night before, seeing WNW winds at 4-7knots, 10% chance precip, throughout the morning and continuing through mid-afternoon, eventually turning to SW winds strengthening to 10-12knots only AFTER 5pm, with chance of precip increasing to 30% AFTER 7PM. I was satisfied, though erroneously, that we were good to go, with an expected return c. 4PM. This info WAS presented to the group (as well other info, I suspect) during the briefing, for what it's worth. Now please be careful to NOT berate me for it being insufficient, nor deficient. I'm asking you and Ed to think twice before continuing to post in a manner that's still seeming like cross-examination. Thanks. Suz, I defer to Leon and your better judgment and experience, but isn't towing in large swells different from towing in very dynamic breaking chop in the 4-6 ft range with only a 3sec period? Unless the tow lines were elastic bungy cords I can only imagine both the towed and towers getting whipsawed dangerously. From all the physics I can imagine given the violent nature of the water I can't imagine that tethering two vessels whose distance and THREE dimensional geometry was so random would've made any sense. In smooth roly-poly big swell, maybe, but not the crazy stuff we had to negotiate...especially being beam seas. Help me out here?

Hi Ed, I think we understand your intent, and would like to suggest that you forward such a query list to the CAM Committee for inclusion in next year's workshops. Perhaps you'd be interested in volunteering to lead a practicum re such? It's hoped that these workshops will be held earlier next year now that the framework is established. Tyson, I KNOW you and Emilie didn't mean to swipe at us with the buoy stuff, and I was a bit bothered by your defensive "censorship" response following Shari and my pushbacks. My suggestion was simply that technical discussion of the apparently poor correlation between buoy data and local conditions merits its own thread, as it was obviously too easy to misinterpret your intentions given our tender climate right now. Obviously learning how to interpret buoy data and its proper correlations to paddling realities would be useful in our workshops next year.

Emilie, I didn't mean to be harsh in response, but miight I suggest that you lift your posts and move them to a new thread re buoys or the like? Bending this thread may not be the best idea right now. I'm already getting hammered because I wrote a report about a "private trip" and the "lurking sharks" will pounce. Oy.... Thanks. Ern

I'm sorry you had to write this, Shari. I didn't bother to fully peruse Emilie's data-links, but will later for educational purposes. But I too read between the lines a strong intimation that are report is somehow exaggerated. So let's be clear: on the return leg beam waves started in the 1-2 ft range immediately off shore, increasing SOON to 3-4 ft, then reaching a CONSISTENT 4-6 ft range at the capsize (about 1/3 of the way back), remaining in the 4-6' range FULLY throughout the remaining 2/3 (4-5 miles) return. In that light I too question the reasoning behind Emilie's second and following posts. The trip report was written in the spirit Lorrie so well described, and for which I'm thankful. What's important here is that the decision-making process be scrutinized by the paddlers involved and other supportive "helpers" so that ALL in our nspn community can benefit from this experience. Further, Leon is SURE that he was almost dumped by a rogue 8 footer. Buoy shmmoey! G'night.