subaruguru

Thanks, guys! 3M's sending me a few YARDS of each. The #8641 is 41 mils (1mm) thick, so may be tougher than the leading edge soft stuff. We'll see. I find that AquaSeal is a ridiculously limited adhesive, partly because it uses a too-volatile toluene as a thinner. Maybe great because it's so aggressive with neoprene, but for gluing edges a drop of SuperGlue has worked well on these strips for years...until LARGE sections of original adhesive fail. I'm hoping the #8641 has the adhesive of the leading-edge but the abrasion-resistance of the velcro. That's be nice.... If not, then maybe the 3M gray step tape is the best compromise, and may have less theoretical drag than the loopy Velcro?

" I love following seas and would have been happy to go down wind but felt strongly that risk to the entire group was increased. I was happy to stay on track, eyes focused on the stuff coming at me and being confident in my boat and paddle." It's my understanding that the strength of that conviction overruled your pod-mates wishes, and of course resulted in a much slower collective pace. So be it. Which would've been better of course NO ONE knows! I mention this both for CAM case study use... and: Knowing that you were in your Force4 I was wondering whether I would've been better off in my Force5 rather than the highly-rockered and slippery-assed Vaag? I was constantly getting pushed sideways (north), and having to turn back upwind to stay on course. Was the Force4 more stable tracking for you in these large beam conditions than let's say your Chatham or similar? (But then maybe you would've COMPLETELY stalled in the pokey Chatham?!) Conversely, once Bev and I decided to head purely downwind the Vaag proved to surf extraordinarily straightly, not requiring the corrective strokes the Force5 requires as it zig-zags in a following sea. The waves were too big and we were too far off the coast for me to risk trying to ride them at angles to develop greater speed. (Certainly this would've provoked broaching my Force5, which just doesn't obediently slide on a wave face like the Vaag.) So I can imagine that your course insistence was also technically preferable perhaps both because the Force's long waterline maintained track AND you avoided following sea "correction noise". I of course have no experience with Leon's Surge nor Lisa's Epic to know which course their crafts "preferred", and thus the components of their decisions preferring altering track.... I found the Vaag to be MUCH slower in the large beamy rollers than I expected, given its quickness in softer conditions. Then again there are limits to such a highly rockered design, I suppose. Too bad engineering the controlled repeat experiments to tease out these traits is not, let's say, simple, nor perhaps prudent just yet, eh? But someday.... Ern

Well after three years I must admit that 2" Velcro's glue is giving up, so I just wrote to 3M asking for a sample of their tough, waterproof 41mil #8641. Anyone try it? They also make tough "leading edge" tapes for propellers, and now windvanes, that are uv resistant. Anyone try these? The small piece of GRAY 3m step tape (no alum oxide to rip skin) I tried seems to be hanging on ok, as I suppose it's waterproof enough for outdoor horizontal surfaces, so I may try replacing the peeling Velcro with that in the meantime. Finding something that's easily molded around corners without puckering AND being abrasion resistant and waterproof isn't proving easy. A gorilla just won't do!

We have some photos of the outgoing leg only...and a couple of traces. Lisa? Bev?

King Neptune: "How's it going, Mom?" Mother Nature: "Pretty well, 'cept there's still a lot of cleaning up to do. I heard you've been pretty busy lately too." "Yeah, you know, what with the hurricanes and stuff." "Picked up something on the low-level tremors 'bout an incident off Smuttynose in the Isle of Shoals last Thursday that I thought you might know something about...involving a pod 'o humans? "Oh yeah...them. But it's not like they weren't warned, even by their own crude forecasting devices. They didn't expect me to start blowin' it up until later in the afternoon, with no precip until sunset. No big deal. And isn't seven one of their lucky numbers?" "I had left them a pretty nice day for their adventure as far as I remember. What happened?" "Well they left reasonably prepared, y'know, with a couple of charts, a position-marker thingy..." "It's called a GPS." "Yeah...and those extra arm-extenders..." "They're called 'paddles'." "...yeah, and some wireless talk-boxes, enough water and fuel, I suppose, and talked about their direction, too. And you're right: you set a nice table for them, and soon enough they settled into their trip. But you know those humans and their natural variation and multi-versity..." "That's called...sigh...never mind." "Well, point is they stretched themselves out, four in front and three behind, including a strong one for safety. Pretty soon the front four split to two pairs, upping the ante a bit..." "Huh? This isn't poker." "Yeah, well bear with me. They reconnoitered a bit and eventually all landed together on one of your lovely small beaches, visited Smuttynose, where they fueled up again and had a great time with the caretakers there. And I learned a new word that describes their species' behavior sometimes, too." "What's that?" "Com...com...com-placency." "Oh yeah...that one." "Yeah...la-di-dah. They then chatted again about getting back before my chance arrival, and decided to be more careful about staying together on their return. But soon enough they broke into two groups again, a mix of four up front and two strongest to stay with one not-so in the rear. I had already started my trip north by then, blowin' it up about 12 knots. So it wasn't more than a few minutes before your tablecloth got ruffled up a bit." "So why didn't they stay together? Isn't that what humans do when they start to get scared?" "Well as far as I can tell (their radios were garbled a bit) the back trio was lagging enough behind that the front four felt they needed to make headway because six or seven miles of big-ripple is tiring for them. Besides, they had reasonable confidence in the two groups collective strengths and abilities, I suppose." "But you couldn't leave it alone, could you?" "Hey c'mon... I have a rep to live up to!" "Yeah, yeah...so what happened next?" "Well my rolling seas were exactly on their beams, so they had some trouble. The rear trio somehow decided to stay on a reverse-track to get to their origin, despite the inhospitable angle. The front four then experienced some trouble when the smallest of them, in her new boat, was capped by one of my 5 or 6 footers, and had I think what they call a capsize. One directly behind her got her positioned alright along her stern and near his bow, but he couldn't turn to form a 'T" because he forgot he had his skeg down and just wasn't strong enough as I repeatedly threw more rollers at them. Then a third came in perpendicular from nearby and started to T-up for a rescue. As the kayak (which had only a little water in it) was drained, it became clear that the floating one's skirt-handle was twisted in the kayak's stern toggle." "What?!" "Yup. So the now-superfluous first rescuer approached closer to offer his bow in case she had to let go of her overturned kayak, but he then just became a potential nuisance. They even called him 'Vaag the Impaler' later on. I'll have to remember that one.... The rescuer performed brilliantly, and soon the foursome was on its way, still unsure where the trailing trio were. They tried to chart a course south-west to get back, but I kept pushing them at 10-15 knots and rolling them up and down. They heard some radio'd advice about "keeping left", but no compass heading was agreed upon, as communications between the quartet and the trio were not, let's say, sufficient to allow harmony. "Cute." "Thanks, Mom. I'm not always just about thunder and lightning, y'know.... Somehow or other the capsized lass and her savior got adrenalized enough to separate from the other two...sufficiently so they were out of earshot. Guess they wanted to get back FAST! The rear pair continued on a WSW heading, but within a mile or two from shore couldn't see their put-in...nor anyone else. By then I was consistently sending them 6 footers every three seconds. I just love to get that quick rhythm goin'.... "So the front duo just decided to make landfall as quickly as possible?" "Yup. Except I kinda catapulted her at the last second, messin' up her landing." "Why the hell'd you do that?" "I've been working on my control issues, but what can you expect? I yam what I yam..." "Uh, that's already been done..." "Oh. So where was I? Oh yeah: the rear duo then decided to forget about their cute and wickedly tiresome WSW heading and finally turned 120 to head straight north and ride my rollers home. I KNEW I could break them! So they picked a beach landing between some houses on their left and woods on their right that was reminiscent of the put-in. So I let' em surf in nicely with just a few hull scratches." "Yeah, but look where you sent these duos!" "Ha! Yeah, I blew the first duo far enough north so that they landed 2.6 miles off the put-in..." "Hey, that's Wallace's." "Yup. And get this: the second duo ended up three friggin' quarters of a mile north of THAT! They call it Pebble Cove. Three point three miles off! Haven't done that in awhile. I think the trailing trio ended up at the actual put-in because they used a wavelength tremor locater machine...oh yeah...GPS to get back. But it took 'em a long time." "And I understand they all found each other in the end?" "Yup. The front duo got picked up by the rear trio, but that shocked them into the realization that the other duo was missing! But they had called a friend to grab a ride back to the put-in pretty quickly, so fears started to subside within a few minutes...not so bad. But they were all pretty shook up." "Well you certainly ruined the dinner plans they had set for the evening, and left my table a mess!" "Hey, that's just MY Nature too." "So now I hear them all squabbling with a mixture of relief, fear, misplaced guilt, and that curiously human brew of bravado tinged with humility from having erred in several ways when wrestling with the royal Neptune." "Yeah. The planner-human feels bad because he thinks he goofed up because he couldn't predict my behavior, and he knows that after all he can't blame anybody for not being able to handle my stuff as well as he can. Don't they know they already have enough messiahs to go around?" "Hmmm.... Seems to Mom that variations in individual human ability should be accommodated by their group decision-making, always ensuring that any weak or injured one is most cared-for...especially when YOU'RE around. I think they should've stayed together regardless." "Yeah, but they didn't. And who are you, Ms. CAM? I was blowin' it up so that they couldn't hear each other, and I guess purposely slowing down when they're staring at miles and miles of very lumpy crossing was just too difficult for them to coordinate." "I'm not sure. Maybe they could've tried heading more southerly (upwind) so that they could then turn downwind and get pushed for awhile, and repeat this pattern? I think they call this 'zig-zagging.' Or just ALL decide to head north and get pushed by you, surfing home and worrying about their transportation to their put-in later?" "Well, they seemed to do MOST of that, but in mini-groups." "Fortunately they didn't have multiple coincident capsizes that would've REALLY changed the outcome, and gotten you in the news big-time again. So why did you decide to take it easy on them this time?" "Well one of their esteemed leaders remarked later that these humans seem to only progress their skill levels when challenged, and keeping them working hard to figure out how to safely manage themselves with lessened risk is their job. And then there's that control issue we all struggle with, eh Mom?" "But they're only HUMAN! They screwed up this group management thing because they don't have enough of this 'CAM' stuff drilled into them yet. They need more time and training." "True dat, Mom. But they like to say it's all about their efforts, struggles, processes, and all that 'life' stuff. Heck, they even have a vehicle message that says 'Shit Happens'. I'm not sure whether to feel gratified for their acknowledgment of us or to be insulted. "Cool it. It's not about you. And now you have them worrying about responsibility, blame, guilt, subconscious death-wishes...and one of them's even claiming there's an elephant in the room!" "Well isn't that special?!" " " "

" nobody in charge (CAM), but helpful folks around." Does that mean you're abrogating your responsibilities as "initiator" under CAM? Ask Leon about Thursday and group vs personal trip management.... Don't mean to poke too hard, but CAM does NOT mean "anything goes", including not vetting newcomer attachment. Wish I could've made this trip, but had to work.

Hey Ross, I passed by Jenness yesterday morn, noting only 2 ft breakers. However, our Isle of Shoals paddle's "conditions" grew to include consistent 6' rollers culmination as we landed scattered across a 3.3 mi swath from Rye Harbor to Pebble Cove by late afternoon. Hope to catch you next time, as Jenness has now caught my eye as a safer way to ride the big stuff. Ern

I'm in awe...speechless. Ern

Ed, Allow me to play devil's advocate here, for Frank's benefit: How is Frank going to know if it "works for you"? I remember going from a Pungo to a 14 1/2' "transitional" yak after a week, only to have that replacement be replaced by a Looksha IV within a month of paddling. Yes, the XT is big enough for his mass, and has a nice long waterline mitigating the need for a skeg or rudder MOST of the time, but do you really want to send Frank along on L3 club trips with it? IMO it's strictly a flatwater inner harbor craft that may be great IF that's his intended purpose. But I suspect the odds are great that it'll be owned for a very short period as Frank will want to get a "real" seaworthy yak within weeks or months. We're just trying to save him from having to resell his next kayak so soon. OTOH $600 is cheap to just get back on the water, and of course at that price the XT is easily resold. So I agree with you. Maybe Frank just needs to decide if he wants to have a short rec boat, possibly taking a "baby step" toward ocean-going kayaking, or skip that step and learn to paddle a quasi endpoint real (uh-oh?!) seakayak. We're all just trying to help, and each path is, by definition, individual. Later: just found a video of the XT: seems to track well, showing a bit of flex, though: http://www.google.com/search?q=merlin+xt&a...80187d6f0589da0

Hi Frank, I wouldn't discount Leon's comments so readily. His knowledge and experience with myriad hulls is comprehensive and extensive... and his "motor" doesn't seem to age! What's not explicitly stated is that the combination of your mass and the Merlin's dimensions and its moderately steep "V" hull will probably result in very little glide efficiency, although tracking and primary may be decent because of the increased wetted surface from your weight. You'll perhaps then find it "understeering" sluggishly, especially in chop, as it's not long enough to have a longer bow help you out against the deep "v" you displace. In other words it sounds like Tsunami redux. There are now more of choices in the 17-18 x 22-23 size for big guys with 12 feet. Great kayaks that come to mind are the Explorer HV (ask Barry M), the Nigel Foster Shadow (ask Jason), as well a couple of others. You'll probably fit in a Cetus (ask Doug M) and maybe a Force 5 (you can try mine) too. These are all just old enough now to have a developed used market. Most of us have wended our ways through multiple 'yak ownership while advancing skills. Maybe the average is 3-5 hulls in that many years initial experience. We're just trying to shorten and de-kink the path for you. I'd suggest you visit and chat up vendors who are still open unloading used and rental inventories (like CRCK), and paddle just about anything that you can fit into from what's available. It'd be probably be better for you to skip the M XT and get a cheap used plastic Tempest 170 or similar (Capella 173?) for awhile. You'll learn a lot in it, and then have great perspective for evaluating fancy composite hulls later on. Hope to see you on the water soon.

Hi Dan, Given your post's time, I'm not sure what day you plan this trip? I may want to join you Sunday or Monday unless I have to work. Ern

In my experience with the industrial-grade Velcro, the glue is not waterproof, at least not in the way that kayaking requires. It might be adequate for withstanding occasional splashes or light rainshowers. I put some on the floor of a stitch-and-glue kayak that I made so I could experiment with different seat positions for the minicell seat. It didn't take long for the Velcro to detach from the floor after a very few paddling sessions. ..Hmmm... Certainly runs counter to my experience with gelcoat or clear-hull epoxy and ester surfaces. Again, I've had Velcro 2" keel strips on my Cat5 for THREE years with only very slight end-corner "lift", easily trimmed with a razor. Its glue is indeed completely waterproof...that's not the issue. The problem is having a clean enough NON-plasticky surface to adhere to. I've noticed that this stuff, like most adhesives, will NOT adhere to PE, PP, or any other "greasy" plastics, but interestingly will adhere to painted ABS (car bumpers) if the surface is cleaned well enough. As well, its glue is quickly compromised by dirt or contact with an inappropriate application, so you have to use "virgin" stuff. In your case I think maybe 70% rubbing alcohol may not have been enough, especially if the surface was damp (residual water) from porosity. Typical 91% would be better, as would of course laquer thinner (contains a mix of toluene/acetone/alcohol and NO water). My only annoyances with the Velcro stem from trimming the "puckers" at sharp radius turns, and the theoretical increase in drag. So one of these days I'm going to try the 3M gray flooring gripper stuff, which should have less drag but maybe even better abrasion resistance? Just chasing the 15min/$20/4oz solution.

Darn! Wish I hadn't missed this one! Ern

He also said NOT to apply excessive heat to the shaft, even with the cold on the side that goes in. Not good for the material. Gotta disagree here. Carbon fibre is commonly used in epoxy and ester matrices that are heat-cured in manufacture. As well, don't try telling aerospace engineers that it's not good in the, uh, rather frigid outer space. So although wrapping an ice pack around the male and pouring boiling water on the female won't get you far in separating a stuck paddle shaft joint, I'm sure it won't hurt it either!

Dammit! I'd love to come on this trip, but am still stuck in Victoria BC with the blue-haired. Ern

Good memory, Bob. Christopher, you are SO correct re its inability to prevent oxidation once it blows off. And that's the operative word, as it simply evaporates, leaving almost no residue to prevent corrosion nor attract dirt, nor act as a lubricant. Thus "rinsing" it is automatically accomplished by the wind.... It's interesting that, like DMSO (dimethyl sulfonomide), WD40 is used as a cheap analgesic and lubricating joint and muscle rub by many octogenarians. WD40 had to then add a warning label precluding medical use as the stuff isn't sufficiently filtered against trace toxic metals and other solvents (like maybe benzene?). Simple placebo effect? These knees are getting older.... Tip: If you want to prevent rust, you gotta use a coating that leaves a sticky-enough residue to prevent air from getting through semi-permanently. Spray-greases work well, or indeed those waxy dribble-on pricey bike lubes. But if the rust "fire" is starting from the otherside of a layer then nothing painted on the "exhaust" side can prevent mother nature's process. Hence it's critical to arrest rust before it finds a second (blind) source of air. I don't know of a good slick coating for carbon fibre that won't attract dirt nor sand. If a shaft joint suffers from chronic stiction I'd be sure it's clean (use soap, then alcohol or another "fast" drying agent), then hit it with very fine paper or steel wool until ok, paying attention to the inside of the female 1/2 too. I'm going to leave this alone now....

PainS Wessex http://www.pwss.com/

Welcome, Warren No laughter, no reprimands. However, you might exercise the SEARCH functions to see if any topic you're interested in has been covered in depth beforehand. While we decidedly do not have an established "bible", there's a lot of reference info to be found. Hence, you may not get the level of response to individual topics you'd expect as some have been discussed ad nauseum.

. Removing the 303 completely could be a challenge. Use lacquer thinner, or in a pinch, nail polish remover (acetone), or even rubbing alcohol. PE's are notoriously greasy until they dry with age, at which time they craze and crack. There are some glues that will work, however I can't remember which, as it's been a long time since I used to memorize plastic inertness and solvency charts. NALGENE used to print a good reference....

Ha! Cheerfully flummoxed by my provincial sense of scale, El and I finally got to Vancouver Island, so far acting touristy in Victoria et environs. A daytrip SW to Port Renfrew revealed some active halibut and salmon fishing, but so far no kayaking 'cept a couple of rec boats in the inner harbours. So we hope to take a couple of days out in Tofino if we can book a B&B, wherein I hope to finally paddle a bit. A friendly customs agent (?!) remarked that I'll find either complete flatwater opportunities or gut-challenging conditions, with nothing in between. We'll see. I'm hoping Scott's experience prevails. Sunny and in the 60-70s so far...not even a hint of rain. No wonder there's so much blue hair around this almost obsessively clean isle. So far I miss Tuck's.... Ern

NOTICE! Because I can't somehow start a new thread from this Canadian computer, I want to notify us at nspn that Maelstrom's designer, Charles-Alexandre Desjardins, and about 15 fellow Canucks are descending upon Popham et environs Sept 3-5 for surfing, and have personally invited nspn to join in. From what I can tell this is NOT a commercial event. They hope to repeat at Popham in October too, at which time I hope to be able to attend. Jason, can you move this to "TRIPS"? Thanks. Ern

Addendum: Although both the Vaag and Xcite have similar long cockpits with well-defined large thigh-hooks, they vary in that the Vaag's is already fully padded and a bit wider at the narrowest point (8"), allowing quicker access and egress than the Xcite's very narrow (6") knee passage. Thus the Xcite provides an almost ridiculous amount of thigh surface purchase, but I found it harder to get in and out notwithstanding the Vaag's central hatch's modest stalagtite. Note also that the smaller Vital's thigh hooks are REALLY low down, and thus appropriate for much smaller paddlers. I'm not sure how that compares to the Xcite S, the comparable baby sister.