subaruguru

J, You had me questioning my own experience there, for a minute, so I ran out to the Subie and inspected MY pair of 215cm Ikelos and Cyprus paddles. Although it's subtle, the two different BENT shafts (2.5cm shorter each, same as the difference in length between the two blade sizes of course) ARE shaped slightly differently just beyond the center of the hand grip area...the longer one having an elongated more subtle, or "stretched" curve. This is easy to see when you nestle them together side-by-side, wherein you'll see that they're not parallel...thus formed on different jigs. I now remember going through this exercise last year when I bought the Cyprus, as I wasn't sure whether to insist on using EXACTLY the same shafts (therefore a shorter, less powerful Cyprus because it was BOTH smaller and shorter), or getting the slightly longer shaft, assuming the geometry of the bent shaft would be close enough to work interchangeably seamlessly (indeed, as in practice it does, so your point is taken in practice, which is ultimately what counts.) I picked the longer Cyprus (215, same as the Ikelos) so that the power difference would be not as great. I find it interesting that a couple of experienced paddlers in the club find the Cyprus a bit too "easy" (nonproductive). I wonder if they'd have the same conclusion at +5cm longer? It's interesting to hear the peanut gallery chiming about empiricism being the primary decider. Of course! But I've always disliked that paddles were referenced by total length rather than length BETWEEN THE CENTERS OF THE BLADES, which would be more useful in predicting feel. Had I been already accustomed to figuring this out beforehand, or manufacturers adopted that metric, I could've predicted that the longer distance between the Cyprus' center of blades would help compensate for the smaller surface area, so the felt "power drop" would be less. In practice this works easily by just using the same total length as before, because the SHAPES of the two blades happen to be the same. But if cases where the blades' geometries differ knowing their repective CENTERS is more useful than total lengths. Indeed, it's a more valid way to compare a Kalliste to a Cyprus, for example, rather than starting with a less meaningful total paddle length. To wit: David's remark re Kalliste vs Cyprus feeling like clones at lowish angle, despite slight diffs in surface bite, tells me that the "effective" lengths were equalized in his experiment really well, even if the nominal total lengths were different (as I'm sure they were, as the Kalliste blade is MUCH longer than the Cyprus.) This is my point exactly: pick the blade and size that FEELS right, and don't be too surprised if the TOTAL length is 5cm different from what you might've expected from a previous paddle with a very different shaped blade-set. We're all pretty much saying the same thing here. I'm just trying to steer the language away from the gross errors inherent in generalizations in group consensus like "we all paddle 205-215cm now", without regard to spoon size and geometry. I suspect that our actual range of CENTER-of-blade to CENTER-of blade favored lengths is even smaller than that. And doesn't Lendal and a couple of other 4 piece paddle makers sell by separate shaft and paddle length? Enough...someone PLEASE post a trip! I promise NOT to talk about this anymore unless sincerely provoked.

and (1) Let's go paddling! I HAVE been posting paddles. Where are the friggin trips? Why isn't anyone posting?

"...though I'm skeptical for most paddlers that they can detect 1-4 cm differences." Couldn't resist, David. Vague memories of physiological and perceptual psych classes state that most folks, with only a few trials, can easily perceive correctly jnd's (just noticeable differences) of 5%, at least for linear scale measurements like weight, height, and length. For other physical phenomenon like light and sound the scale is of course of a higher order, like lumens (?) or dB. For example, most folks can pretty reliably determine which sack of potatoes weight 9.5 or 10 pounds, a 5% difference. Or an egg 5% larger than another. So it's easy to agree with your perspective of the myth of "false" sensitivity. But indeed, if a human is trained repeatedly on the same task, differential sensisitivity becomes much more finely honed. I agree that a novice kayaker can just barely tell the difference between a 220 and 230 paddle (5%), but most intermediates can perceive 5cm (2 1/2%) differences pretty readily. I'll admit that I don't believe I could perceive, nor therefore readily pick correctly between experimental pairs only 1cm paddle total lengths apart, but I'm pretty sure I could notice the alternate drops (2cm total, or 1%), as I dropped from 218 to 212, then back up to 214. If you doubt me, let me know the next time you dance with Deb if you can't tell whether she's wearing inch and a half heels (+2% taller) or is barefoot! And I'll bet you FEEL different if you gain or lose 3 lbs (c. 2%), eh? I realize that the subtle paddle length test is not possible with the fixed Werners, but if you borrow an adjustable-length paddle like an Epic wing you'll be surprised at your ability to discriminate inch or less (2cm) increments. And if you really can't I'll buy dessert!

A dab of flexible sticky silicone glue might be quicker, and never crack. GOOP will work if it sticks.

So far Leon and I. Any others? RSVP by 9:30 AM. Ern

Monday's the pick of the early week as temps will be more moderate; however, winds are again forecast at 15kn WSW, with 2-3' chop. I'm tentatively posting an L3++ (L4 CAM) trip out of Tuck's Point (Manchester; RSVP or search for careful parking, off-loading and put-in protocol). Arrival 11AM, briefing 11:20, launch 11:30 Monday. Agenda to be determined by participants; requirements include a skeg/rudder and strength to paddle against 15+kn winds, as well handle 2+ft (L4) chop (i.e., a repeat of last Thursday's paddle conditions). Ideas? Ern

Anyway, to get to the point: I had the valve of my tire tampered with and my tire went flat as I was loading my boat. The jerk was clearly trying to annoy you just short of criminal offense (slashing the tire). Although I don't have a remedy for door locks jammed with broken toothpicks or superglue, a $20 investment in a portable 12v air compressor isn't a bad idea to pressurize your tire in less than 5 minutes total. You'll then know quickly too if the air was released via the valve (cowardly wimp with a semblance of a superego) or, heaven forbid, slashed, for which there is no safe repair (indeed, patching a sidewall puncture is illegal in MA). Risking straying further off-topic, re "normal" tread-area punctures: some autos (esp those with runflat tires) even carry a pressurized can of "slime" (e.g., "Fix-a-Flat") to temporarily plug some punctures from the inside. But adding 1/2 pound of sloshing gel invariably upsets the balance wildly, necessitating dismounting the tire to empty it of goo and then cleaning the hole area well before patching, remounting and rebalancing. I find it easier to simply "plug" it well from the outside, which if done carefully will be a permanent repair. You can buy such a hole reamer and hook kit with a half dozen plugs for around $10. If you can find the hole and roll the car a bit for access, you can effect this quick repair without even removing the tire/wheel from the car or using a jack to lift it up, if you're willing to lie on the ground to ream the hole and insert the plug. After re-inflation you test the plug with a bit of spittle. If it bubbles, inflate to 40 psi, drive home and recheck. The "settled" plug may seal well. If not, remove wheel and either redo your plug more carefully, or just punt and get to a pro-installed inner patch and rebal.

I'll revise forecast and make last call in the morning if necessary. See ya. Ern Forecast is holding steady at WNW winds 15k, gusts to 20, 2' chop (currently 1.6 sig wave hgt at the buoy, 13-15kn, pretty short 3 sec period). So this L3++ (old nomenclature, + for wind, + maybe for chop), L4 (CAM method for any criterion) is on. Winds are predicted to be steady but strong, so those with cocky 'yaks PLEASE check skeg function carefully. I trust several of us will bring radios, spare paddles, and those still wanting to rock-play in these gusts bring helmets as getting blown into a hard knock is more likely. Should be sunny ALL day, so bring lots of drinks. Let's have fun! Ern

From Adam B on his blog: http://sn126w.snt126.mail.live.com/default...x?wa=wsignin1.0 Submersible VHF Radios/Part 1

Bottom line -- it's very Epic-specific. I'm sticking to Werner. I'm going to try a Cyprus against my Kalliste as soon as I can get down to CRCK. David, I have a bent Cyprus 215 you can try anytime. It has the amazing quietness and "ease" of the Kalliste, but of course in high-angle. The Ikelos is more powerful, but louder and gets to my tendons. I'm not surprised that the Epic's software is calibrated to their wings; what I found fascinating is that the length calculations seem to be right on FOR the Mid-Wing, matching my best-fit evolution exactly. Pretty cool. Ern

Try a pair pf Tylenol PM. Dry you out and you'll sleep like a babe. Hope to see you. Ern

Current forecast is for winds WNW 14-18 kn, low 80s, 1-2' chop. Currently 17kn, 2ft chop at the buoy. Trip is still indeed on, as an L4. Agenda tbd at beach briefing, perhaps including either to hug the coast SW or island hop to the Dry Breakers, etc., as conditions permit. Lunch'll probably be at Misery if it's rough, or Children's if not. Regardless, hope is that we'll have a little help home. I'll revise forecast and make last call in the morning if necessary. See ya. Ern

I thought of mentioning the Epic Wizard too. I bought a Mid-Wing a couple of years ago, starting at 218cm. After a few trips across a season's use I found myself dialing it down incrementally to 214. This year I tried the new "improved" Wizard and found that it nailed me with a recommendation of exactly 214! Quite amazing.

Al, I'm already carpooling with Tom, if I don't forget to pick him up! Lisa, So far on weekdays a few of us parking in the BACK of the upper lot has been ok. I suggest that if needed a couple of us park in the lower lot. If that's a problem your suggested backups certainly seem indicated. Thanks for reminding us of Tuck's special protocol.... ALL, Forecast currently predicts WSW winds at 17knots, so according to the "new" interpretation favored at our CAM workshop discussions wherein ANY condition criteria exceeding a trip Level automatically should result in a bump up in level, this trip is technically an L4. Although many of us are used to having to awkwardly parse the gulfs between L2 and L4 with shaded values (+/-, etc.), I can see now why using the higher level is useful to partially assure that standards are met for paddler ability and safety. Indeed my technical background in measurement sciences leads me to want to expand the system to FIVE levels or at least deliniate half-levels, as I'm now "feeling" caught wondering what the hell I'm doing posting an L4 trip, as I 'd normally want to say L3.5 or L3++. But that's perhaps just a matter of acclimation through experience with the nomenclature as we proceed. Maybe something to talk about tomorrow. I'm trying to be very careful to NOT attract L2-L3 paddlers to a paddle wherein one or several conditions will most likely exceed their experience, especially as I'm not a "strong" L4 paddler myself. This is indeed a CAM trip and not a pro-led training workshop for beginner-intermediates. I'll check forecast late tonight when I'm back home. Could someone try to check the wave/chop forecast. I realize that's outer buoy specific, but may be useful to know even if we stay along the shore. Of course we'll make final determination onsite live. Ern

I was thinking of the Garmin GPSMAP 78S Stew P. Hi Stew, Congrats on the Blackburn, btw! I think the 78S ($300) is the newer version of the very popular 76C and 60c that are still around, now heavily discounted to below $200. I just grabbed a 60 and now have to learn to use it. These Garmins seem to serve us well, but Scott's brilliant response is an example of the importance of local knowledge. The attraction of GPS use for me is primarily to be able to trace paddles rather than a location beacon. Ern

Stew, Welcone to NSPN. Please check the EVENTS AND PLANNING section of our site to see the various paddle difficulty Levels. This particular trip will be an L3+ or possibly L4 trip due to conditions. If you are a beginner it is STRONGLY suggested that you take advantage of our Skills Sessions. Indeed, perhaps the Thursday PM session at Chebacco Lake would be fun for you this week. There you will learn quickly, and as well can be told which Level trips are appropriate for you at this time. Best, Ern

I knew you could do it, Gene! Tentative plan is to head west into the wind, and depending upon chop, maybe visit the usual Islands, etc., then have the wind at our backs home, basically a shorter, gustier and lumpier version of the trip Leon and I did today. I cannot condone newbies hopping on this trip unless it grows large enough that someone wants to lead a beginners' pod, which is VERY unlikely given the forecast. So sorry, Konstantin and Stew...we'll paddle together another time.

You're all correct. But I'll add that using identical SHAFT lengths doesn't guarantee similar performance across blade shapes, even if SHAFT immersion depths are identical, as the DISTANCE OF THE CENTER OF THE SURFACE of the blade will determine the felt resistance when stroking. Michael's example of the Shuna and Camano is correct, except that because some of the surface area of the LONGER Camano blade is further from the center of rotation than the Shuna, the effort to paddle the Camano will be GREATER (assuming the surface area of both blades is the same). To compensate for this the Shuna can be a LITTLE longer (maybe 200cm in this example) in order to have the same felt power and resistance as the Camano. The choice becomes even more complicated with BENT shafts when deciding to have a similar pair with different blades. Does one get identical shaft lengths in order to have identical hand position geometry? In my case that would mean a 220 Ikelos (high surface area) shaft = a 215 Cyprus (medium surface area) shaft. But that would yield a HUGE difference in paddling resistance between two "sister" paddles. The opposite logic of getting a 215 Ikelos and a longer 220 Cyprus would probably yield nearly identical paddling resistances (given as a function of surface area times distance). Yet the hand positions would be different and the Cyprus blade would perhaps be buried too deep, or the Ikelos not enough. One needs to balance blade surface area and shaft length to arrive at the correct geometry, generally, but not necessarily arriving at the "end of blade immersion" as an ultimate goal. Indeed the vastly different geometry of a purely low-angle blade like the Camano/Kalliste may result in a VERY different immersion geometry than a pure high-angle design. I tried using the "equal shaft" criteria when buying a second bent Werner, but then had to adjust 5cm because having a shorter overall-length because of smaller spoons (blades) was just not enough bite in the water. This is indeed subtle stuff, requiring empirical confirmation. The best choice usually lands in between the "equal total length" and "equal shaft length" calculations, especially if surface areas differ and CENTER of surface area distances differ. Hope this helps.

Hi Les & Konstantin, Current forecast shows winds at 15 knots. You ok with this in the ski, Les? I was unclear re your comment. Konstantin, as a beginner, maybe you should wait for an L2 or mellower paddle. This will be a solid L3 paddle, approaching L4 possibly for distance, winds or chop. Ern

[quote name= I was thinking about also posting same for TOMORROW Tuesday as weather's clearing. Anyone else up for TUESDAY, as well perhaps Thursday, Tuck's Point 11AM? CONFIRMING: I'll be at Tuck's Point TUESDAY 11AM as well. RSVP if joining in. Ern

Thursday's forecast seems to be the pick o' the week. Anyone up for an L3 out of Tuck's Point, c. 11AM meet-up, 11:30 BIB? Agenda's open to all ideas. I'd like to see some seals again.... Lisa, CONGRATS! You recovering well? How'd you do, Leon? Ern

Maybe we should re-institute impromptu Tues Skills Sessions at Mystic? Thoughts? Ern