Lost Kayaker

[Brian Nystrom]

My thoughts to ponder (use of DSC VHF and/or sponsons for safety) stand alone. That is, they are independent of this incident or the details of this incident. Perhaps I should post them on another thread; I posted here because of the relevance to the unfortunate death of a fellow paddler.

A VHF could have made a big difference, as the CG can home in on the signal, which at least gives them a bearing to the location of the radio.

IMO, sponsons are useless as a safety/rescue device. About the only use I can see for them is for extra stability when fishing or something similar.

[gyork]

I suspect that the CG will examine why they did not make him abort when they first stopped him.

Ben

I seem to recall that they have this authority to prevent launching, correct?

Gary

[rick stoehrer]

I seem to recall that they have this authority to prevent launching, correct?

Gary

i learned the CG term "manifestly unsafe" a year or so back....yes, they have the authority to prevent launch. what that entails exactly i can only guess - custody / arrest / impound / seize - i dunno.

on that day after a brief and salient discussion, they chose to not enforce that code and we all had a grand time and we notified them when we got back to shore. alls well - but it did bring up an interesting point of discussion at the time - how does the CG determine who/what is safe? can you determine what's safe for me? tough position to put people in and consequently i worked with rick lutes and paula riegel and we went down to the newburyport cg station and put on a brief discussion and demo on the differences between recreational and sea kayaks, what you might expect to find on a well prepared sea kayaker and what that kayaker may have done BEFORE they even launch...and that the coasties might probably be looking at at least 2 of em at a time as opposed to just 1...and EVEN then we all understand that folks can 'have all the gear and no idea-r" about what the hell is going on. the coasties were attentive and on the whole had no idea what some of us do before we shove off and what we're capable of once we shove off. it was a pretty good day of outreach.

here in this community, i feel our mutual concern with anyone having authority to tell me/us anything is that they may or may not have a similar background / experience in sea kayaks and they may or may not be able to gauge MY / OUR relative safety in choosing to go out and play on a day when THEY might deem it foolish. I have a REAL problem with someone who has NO EXPERIENCE in a sea kayak telling me / or you (with a relative LOT of experience in a sea kayak) that something is a bad idea or not do-able....and as a free thinking adult taking responsibility for my own actions and with experience in the field, i don't think it's anyone else that should be making that decision for me or us....we all moved outta our parents house a long time ago, thanks.

there is nothing more dangerous than a man with a gun, a woman with a knife or a senator with "an idea" and every time something like this happens (someone dies and the family and news reports of the persons "experience") i worry that the 3rd most dangerous person up there tries to save us all from ourselves. experience is relative - the relatives say so and so was experienced but in truth, with a of a lot of these deaths, when we within the community examine the "facts" we often come up with a very different conclusion and find that most all could have been prevented. on the other hand...we've ALL done some of the same things that gets these folks killed.

it's too bad the fella died....learn the lesson and lets hope no one thinks that "safety" can or should be regulated more stringently...especially those who aren't familiar with the risks.

[EEL]

I seem to recall that they have this authority to prevent launching, correct?

Gary

Technically the determination of "manifestly unsafe" is made based upon the nature and state of the vessel and is not based upon the skill or competence of the master or crew. 33 CFR 177.04 and 33 CFR 177.04(g)

However, that is not to say the CG has not been creative in using its authority under that regulation. In one instance they stopped a deaf operator of a vessel and on the basis of his voyage being "manifestly unsafe" they required him to be escorted back to dock. There the citation given as the actual violation was of Rule 5. Of course they ultimately reversed this decision, but it does show the enforcement personnel on the scene can take action they deem necessary even if not strictly in accord with the regs.

Having said that, they could have inquired if he had all the required safety stuff such as signals, etc. and if not, then stopped him.

As to DSC/GPS making a difference two points. One, there are few handheld radios available today which have both DSC and GPS. Second, anyone know the status of DCS monitoring in Region 1?

Also, you must have obtained the necessary ID numbers from the FCC for it to function appropriately. In a few years all handheld VHF marine radios will have both no doubt.

Ed Lawson

Who agrees with Rick...there but for the grace of God.

[Suz]

I think we all have an interest in what was on the boat and person. Even then, we are forced to speculate. Will the Coast Guard release any detailed info on their findings, when all recovery efforts are exhausted?

Recovery efforts are exhausted. No one is looking for the paddler.

I had a long conversation with Al Johnson at a paddle smart event in Connecticut this past weekend.

Here are a few things to note about the paddler, his family insisted he was an experienced paddled. That means different things to different people...

His paddle was tethered FORWARD of the cockpit with a hard foam paddle float attached to the end of the paddle. My thought based on the location of the paddle was that it was being used for a re-enter and roll. I would suspect that the paddlers roll failed or he didn't have a roll at all. My guess is that usually people who don't know how to roll buy a hard foam paddle float and usually people who know how to roll use an inflatable. Not sure if others here would agree.

On the "green wetsuit" that the paddler had on... I don't know many wet suits that are colored green, does anyone here have one? Perhaps it was an old one, perhaps a custom colored surfers wetsuit with arms/legs... I would imagine though based on the fact that the boat was an older Perception boat, the owner of the boat wouldn't be buying a custom suit... pure speculation on my part but that is my assumption. It made me wonder though if the bystander that saw the paddler in a wetsuit perhaps he was wrong and the paddler had on a green drysuit. Hard to tell, perhaps it was green rain gear or green paddle jacket.

It would be interesting to know what the paddler was wearing but even if they were wearing a drysuit, there isn't much margin for safety when paddling alone off the coast of NH when a roll fails and then when your back up of a paddle float re-enter and roll fails also...

Suz

[PeterB]

A VHF could have made a big difference, as the CG can home in on the signal, which at least gives them a bearing to the location of the radio.

IMO, sponsons are useless as a safety/rescue device. About the only use I can see for them is for extra stability when fishing or something similar.

Sponsons, to my knowledge, come into their own when kayakers are doing long (overnight, multi-day) crossings and need stability while getting some sleep. In all other scenarios, asking if sponsons would have saved a paddler in trouble is asking the wrong question. Whether they would or not, considering sponsons in the place of simple risk assessment is like walking into a burning building in ones free time and considering what kind of fireproof suit would keep you from getting killed.

[bob budd]

As regards solo paddling I would mention that ones skills are seriously curtailed by injury, a big reason why one or paddling mates improve safety margin under any circumstances. As regards a crossing (or paddling in any area) one should consider the traffic; both to respect/avoid the regular users of the waters and to recognize the likelihood of being seen if things go awry.

[hopefloats]

This may be deemed an uninformed or naive question, plus I know this is an isolated incident and not all situations play out this way...but in the event that the CG finds a paddler that a worried call has gone out about, find them fine, but the weather is changing, couldn't there be some freebie give-a-way tools like a signal mirror or spare flare just in case they run into trouble between the time they meet up and the time they've been asked to call to say they've made it? Maybe as a public service NSPN might donate such materials every now and then or something?

Just an idea...

[jdkilroy]

It was a very unfortunate event with a disastrous outcome... I can only imagine how family and friends are trying to come to terms with it.

That said, I for one, am comfortable paddling alone... in situations that I have deemed acceptable. I don't feel that is irresponsible and I expect I will do a fair amount of it. Increased risk? yes.

I think it is completely reasonable for the Coast guard to question any paddler who they are concerned about having to rescue... Do you know what you are doing? where is your VHF? does it work? do you know how to operate it? what is your level of experience? where is your other safety gear etc etc. It may be intrusive and perhaps unwelcome but these guys are the ones putting their lives on the line when we call for help. In the end, that's their job and they will do it but we have a responsibility as well.

There is a distinct difference between poor judgement and a complete absence of it.

Jon

[Gcosloy]

Sponsons, to my knowledge, come into their own when kayakers are doing long (overnight, multi-day) crossings and need stability while getting some sleep. In all other scenarios, asking if sponsons would have saved a paddler in trouble is asking the wrong question. Whether they would or not, considering sponsons in the place of simple risk assessment is like walking into a burning building in ones free time and considering what kind of fireproof suit would keep you from getting killed.

The problem as I see it is that any rescue device needs to be practiced to be effective in an emergency. Sponsons are sometimes advertised as a "get out of trouble free card." Suppose you're in a high following sea condition as we surmise this paddler was. In order to deploy sponsons he would have needed to first inflate them and if he was still upright would then have to use two hands to clip them on at four separate attachment points, placing his torso off balance several times for the duration of that task. A much better scenario is that after capsizing and wet exiting he inflates and attaches while in the water. Now it becomes a more stable re-entry maneuver than that of a paddle float re-entry. He could even cowboy re-enter at this point. If you're in the water and cannot re-enter and roll with or without a paddle float, sponsons are an easier and more stable option. However no one should be in a situation where the sponsons become the last resort. If you are, it's simply one more trick in your bag that could save the bacon.

[EEL]

If you are, it's simply one more trick in your bag that could save the bacon.

I suggest it is important to consider that in some outdoor activities there is no possibility of "saving the bacon" if things go wrong or at best the consequences will be grave. Free solo climbing is one, class VI WW is another, and perhaps the journey he commenced was under the circumstances. Some activities are very unforgiving, those who do them usually understand the "game they are playing", and I hope we all remain free to make informed decisions to engage in such activities.

Ed Lawson

[leong]

A VHF could have made a big difference, as the CG can home in on the signal, which at least gives them a bearing to the location of the radio.

IMO, sponsons are useless as a safety/rescue device. About the only use I can see for them is for extra stability when fishing or something similar.

How about an exact location sent digitally from a DSC capable handheld VHF?

In heavy chop and/or waves it's very hard to pump out a cockpit and a water-filled cockpit makes for a very unstable boat. Perhaps a sponson would help in this situation.

[jason]

How about an exact location sent digitally from a DSC capable handheld VHF?

In heavy chop and/or waves it's very hard to pump out a cockpit and a water-filled cockpit makes for a very unstable boat. Perhaps a sponson would help in this situation.

Sponson's made a boat more stable in smaller(flat) conditions. But in bigger water on the beam they will just make you swim.

I don't see sponsons as a help and the talk of them in this thread may confuse people into thinking that they have value. If we are looking for safety kit a VHF, EPERB, spot, flares, dry suit, etc would be helpful, but sponsons shouldn't be in the emergency kit.

Can I suggest moving the sponson talk into a separate thread?

Thanks -Jason

[EEL]

How about an exact location sent digitally from a DSC capable handheld VHF?

I apologize in advance for being a petty pedantic, but a DSC capable VHF can do some interesting things, but it will not send location information when providing a distress call on CH 70 unless a GPS is attached to it or the unit has a GPS unit built in. Just don't want people to think getting a DSC capable unit means it will send location info.

Ed Lawson

[rick stoehrer]

I apologize in advance for being a petty pedantic, but a DSC capable VHF can do some interesting things, but it will not send location information when providing a distress call on CH 70 unless a GPS is attached to it or the unit has a GPS unit built in. Just don't want people to think getting a DSC capable unit means it will send location info.

Ed Lawson

and as long as we're risking pendantic - the best piece of equipment any of us has is the rock like unit sitting on our respective shoulders...that's the only piece of gear that'll really keep you outta trouble and everything else is just sorta rounds out the kit.

with any kit - have all of it you might likely need, be familiar with it - what it can and can't do and then try not to have to use any of it.

spring is closer

[JohnHuth]

Seriously - who of you out there would try to do a solo crossing to Isles of Shoals in February in 37 degree water, high winds forecast with only a wetsuit and no VHF?

I suspect everyone on this board has better judgment.

Even with a good drysuit and a VHF, I'd be worried about my hands getting too cold. There's also the general hypothermia problem of blowing wind, even with a dry-suit and not being immersed - sweat and all that kind of thing.

And practice them thar rolls in windy conditions!

[Ben Fuller]

Seriously - who of you out there would try to do a solo crossing to Isles of Shoals in February in 37 degree water, high winds forecast with only a wetsuit and no VHF?

I suspect everyone on this board has better judgment.

Even with a good drysuit and a VHF, I'd be worried about my hands getting too cold. There's also the general hypothermia problem of blowing wind, even with a dry-suit and not being immersed - sweat and all that kind of thing.

And practice them thar rolls in windy conditions!

Yup, at the end of the day we have a judgement issue here.

I wonder what would have happened if the CG had asked the paddler to demo a roll which would have been really the only reasonable rescue in 15 knots and 37 degree water. Can't or unwilling to roll, reel the paddler in. Objective test.

[PeterB]

Yup, at the end of the day we have a judgement issue here.

I wonder what would have happened if the CG had asked the paddler to demo a roll which would have been really the only reasonable rescue in 15 knots and 37 degree water. Can't or unwilling to roll, reel the paddler in. Objective test.

I don't think the ability to demonstrate a roll would be a sound indicator of ones ability to get home safely on that day. I can roll on both sides and have self rescued by both reenter & roll and cowboy , in conditions, and I would not have attempted that crossing, alone, at that time of day & year , in those conditions. I'd like to think that I would have asked for help or broken into or talked my way into a building to spend the night. I probably wouldn't do that kind of solo crossing even in the summer. Some sort of judgment test would have been more useful than some sort of hard skills test.

[Brian Nystrom]

I think we probably all have met - or possibly even have been - someone who gets involved in an activity, does something ill-advised a few times and "gets away with it", then becomes complacent about it. Based on the descriptions of this paddler as having been "experienced" and having done the same crossing several times before, this seems like an obvious case of that. He apparently had neither the equipment nor the skills to do that trip while allowing a reasonable safety margin and lacked the judgment to make the right decisions when he found himself in trouble. These things combined to cost him his life. Sadly, this story is now fodder for the next edition of "Sea Kayer, Deep Trouble".

As difficult as it can be to impress upon beginners that there are substantial risks to paddling New England waters, it's even harder to to convince a "veteran" of the need to be more careful. There are still people who refuse to wear seatbelts, simply because they haven't needed them...yet. Hopefully, this tragedy will serve as a warning to the paddling community that even an experienced paddler can get into a fatal predicament when complacency sets in.

[PeterB]

Looking at the facts, it is worth speculating that our poor lost friend might have been slightly hypothermic. I was taught that the effects of hypothermia are insidious, and the early signs can be a loss of judgment: while one can be functional, ambulatory, can converse etc. , subtle changes in thinking might be occurring.

I read an incident report from Vancouver Island, BC where two paddlers were caught in bad weather and were rescued late at night by the Coast Guard. Later, reviewing their actions as the day and evening had progressed, they were appalled at the chain of decisions they made . They had been wet and soaked in sea spray all day. The conclusion was that hypothermia had set in earlier in the day than would have appeared.

If he was wearing a wetsuit, it would stand to reason that he was wet all day , and by that hour might have been afflicted by hypothermia in subtle ways.

[EEL]

I was taught that the effects of hypothermia are insidious, and the early signs can be a loss of judgment: while one can be functional, ambulatory, can converse etc. , subtle changes in thinking might be occurring.

Excellent point Peter. I know it is often said later about climbing accidents and other disasters that it is often a series of rather minor errors or mistakes in judgment which taken together culminate in a really bad/major problem. "For want of a nail the horse was lost, etc." While hypothermia is often talked about in terms of an emergency where action must be taken to a serious cooled person, we should all appreciate the impact of being slightly chilled for a long time can have on our judgment. When solo, there is no other person to act as a check.

Ed lawson

[Ben Fuller]

I don't think the ability to demonstrate a roll would be a sound indicator of ones ability to get home safely on that day. I can roll on both sides and have self rescued by both reenter & roll and cowboy , in conditions, and I would not have attempted that crossing, alone, at that time of day & year , in those conditions. I'd like to think that I would have asked for help or broken into or talked my way into a building to spend the night. I probably wouldn't do that kind of solo crossing even in the summer. Some sort of judgment test would have been more useful than some sort of hard skills test.

Like you I would have not done that run event though I have rolled in conditions fairly frequently especially in my serious whitewater days.

But the Coast Guard does not have the ability to make a judgement test, I do not believe. They do have the ability to stop something deemed unseaworthy. Problem is that to most folks kayak crossing is unseaworthy. So it would be well to have some criteria that they could use. Certainly the willingness to roll in a seaway would be something that could have stopped the crossing right there.

What kind of tool kit can we give the CG? So that they don't stop trips when they don't have to?

[jason]

Like you I would have not done that run event though I have rolled in conditions fairly frequently especially in my serious whitewater days.

But the Coast Guard does not have the ability to make a judgement test, I do not believe. They do have the ability to stop something deemed unseaworthy. Problem is that to most folks kayak crossing is unseaworthy. So it would be well to have some criteria that they could use. Certainly the willingness to roll in a seaway would be something that could have stopped the crossing right there.

What kind of tool kit can we give the CG? So that they don't stop trips when they don't have to?

I don't see it as the CG's jobs to 2nd guess adults that aren't breaking the law. The CG can inform people about the risks but they shouldn't stop them We are still living in a free country where we can do things that some people think are stupid or dangerous. I would not want to live in a nanny state where the CG sends everybody home, to sit on the couch to watch TV and drink bear because we might get hurt on the water.

Adults should be able to make choices, we don't need to paddle or climb mountains but we should know the risks and go out have some fun and take a bit of risk as it keeps the blood flowing.

I much rather go out in a story about someone that took too much of a risk than as a 400LB person that was afraid to leave my house as it's a dangerous world.

-Jason

[Brian Nystrom]

One thing that really surprised me was that when this guy called from Star Island, no one told him to stay put and arranged for a boat to pick him up. My impression is that conditions had deteriorated by that time and he should not have gone back on the water. A simply "Pon-Pon" call out to other vessels by the CG might have gotten him a ride home. This is just speculation, but it's food for thought.

[Gcosloy]

One thing that really surprised me was that when this guy called from Star Island, no one told him to stay put and arranged for a boat to pick him up. My impression is that conditions had deteriorated by that time and he should not have gone back on the water. A simply "Pon-Pon" call out to other vessels by the CG might have gotten him a ride home. This is just speculation, but it's food for thought.

This reminds me of Adam's post at the end of last season in Wood's Hole with a panicked paddler. I would have thought that the CG would have broadcast to other ships in the area for some assist. Maybe the message here is that we expect too much from the CG and ought to be equipped with marine radios and make our own pan-pan calls to local vessels if need be. The CG seems to be great for a mayday situation but not so great for playing the nanny role. Maybe we need to be our own nannies. Maybe that's why some of us never paddle solo, i.e. The Nannie Paddlers Network.