Brian Nystrom

If a sticky bottom becomes an issue try painting the foam with "dip it". That liquid plastic stuff for tool handles ( at Depot etc, I think). Comes in colors and really looks slick on a foam seat.

While it looks great, it's designed to be grippy, not slippery.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the use of the boat's skeg, if it has one. A well designed boat/skeg combination will allow you to trim the boat's behavior from slight weathercocking to slight lee cocking.

For turning upwind, make sure the skeg is fully up and paddle forward. That unlocks the stern so it will swing downwind and point the bow into the wind, which is using "weathercocking" to your advantage.

For turning downwind, lowering the skeg fully will lock the stern and the wind will push the bow downwind, which is using "lee cocking" to your advantage. Combine it with a sweep stroke and/or bow rudder when paddling forward. If you drop the skeg and paddle backwards, the bow will swing downwind rapidly with minimal effort. The downside to dropping the skeg is that it also stiffens the tracking of the boat, making maneuvering strokes less effective.

You may want to invest in Nigel Foster's video on the subject (Vol. #3 in his series) or take his "wind and waves" course. Both will teach you about the dynamics of boats, wind and waves and the most effective way to turn your boat in a variety of wind directions.

Thanks for all the input. The paddle I broke was a nice custom made wood paddle by Fred Randall. So I definitely can agree with the benefits of a custom paddle. However, it sounds like I'll have to ponder whether I need the durability of a carbon paddle

It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. Wood paddles can be glassed to improve their durability, without adding much weight. It will also increase the stiffness considerably, making it feel more like a carbon paddle.

The one size issue is important. I have been told and believe after working on a paddle or two that a 1/8 " difference in loom width can make for a huge difference in feel as can the shape of the shoulders let alone width and thickness and blade contour.

This is particularly true for women, as most commercial stock-sized paddles have looms and blade widths sized for the hands of an average adult man. Making your own or having one custom made is the way to go for women.

Superior's carbon paddle is a very nice piece of gear, but you're limited to the available sizes and it's very stiff, which for me makes it less enjoyable to use than a paddle with a bit of flex and snap to it. Again, this is relative to the size and strength of the paddler, and also to personal preferences.

Just curious if anyone here who switched to a foam seat from a fiberglass seat finds that their torso rotation is inhibited? I ask because I never see any racers using foam seats and I feel like the foam seat in my Argonaut doesn't allow me to slide around (in a good way) like the glass seat in my other kayaks.

Racers also do not use back bands, which inhibit hip rotation. It's important to distinguish between torso rotation and hip rotation, as the latter occurs between one's butt and the seat. A sticky foam seat and/or a back band will inhibit hip rotation, but have little or no effect on torso rotation that takes place from the hips up.

Hip rotation increases stroke length and engages the legs more, adding power to the stroke, but it requires a boat that's set up with a slick - or rotating - seat, no back band and enough height in the cockpit to allow some knee pumping (typically with the knees close together in the center of the cockpit). Whether one is willing to do this in a touring boat is the real question, as it may sacrifice "all-day comfort" for performance. Moreover, the more energetic racing stroke is also more tiring and harder on the body. If one's purpose in paddling is to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, it may be worth the trade-off, but if you're simply out to enjoy island hopping, poking around the shoreline or other casual pursuits, it's probably not a good compromise.

If you want to see a simple and inexpensive method for making a seat, check out my "Seat Removal & Replacement" and "Kayak Outfitting" albums on Webshots at:

http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom-reg

When I mentioned to him that Greenland tended to be a lower stroke, (what do I know) he said Greenland racers use a very vertical stroke. Hummmmmm. I have adopted his school of thought but my paddling style is consistently evolving it seems.

Greenland paddles work at any angle, which is one of the beauties of the "stick". The low angle thing is an aberration of a Midwest-US school of paddling. If you watch films of Greenlanders, you'll see them paddling at a variety of angles, depending on their needs. For example, when moving quickly, a high angle is typically used, but when maneuvering while hunting, a very low angle is used to avoid spooking their quarry.

While it's certainly possible to use the same stroke with GPs and Euro paddles, that would not be optimum for either. A Euro is typically used with a stroke that starts with a plant near the feet and a strong pull at that point, with the stroke ending near the hip. A GP stroke usually starts closer to mid calf, has a gradual pull that builds through the stroke, then exits well past the hip. For best efficiency, the blade on a GP should be canted forward throughout the stroke.

If one was going to use one stroke for both paddle types, it seems to me that using a GP stroke with a Euro would be better than vice-versa, as reaching too far forward with a GP makes it impossible to maintain the cant in the blade.

Try Moynihan Lumber in Plaistow, NH, 603 3821535.

Definitely! They have the best prices I've seen locally and generally a very good selection of 2x4s and 4x4s for paddle blanks.

A 12.5 ft canoe with two grown men in it would be a bit tippy, wouldn't it?

One would think so and it wouldn't take much of reaction from a startled person to capsize the boat.

Having seen the whales many times come to the surface during the feeding process and also having seen many flukes appear and disappear I can only assume they would need to be nearly beside each other to capsize most boaters.

For all we know, these guys may have had a dolphin surface near them, freaked out and fell overboard. It seems like very little detail is getting out about what actually happened.

And another ... (with a happier ending)

It's amazing the difference when people wear PFDs, isn't it?

The news report I heard mentioned that there were not even any PFDs in the boat, let alone on the paddlers. It figures. While you obviously can't plan for a chance whale encounter, you can at least take the legally-required safety precautions.

I've got a bunch of different types of technical underwear that I've accumulated over the years (Thermax, Outlast, Hot Chilies, Craft, EMS & LL Bean house brands, etc.) and frankly, none of it really keeps me dry. I also don't notice much difference from one brand to another, other than in the feel of the fabric. Some polyester knits still have that "hot" feeling that some of us old timers remember from the "Ban-Lon" days (I notice this somewhat with Craft garments). One type that I don't have is Capilene, which is highly rated, but I'm skeptical that's it's going to be any better than what I have. I haven't found a single type of wool that I can wear against sweaty skin (other than on my hands and feet) without getting itchy and while it's reasonably warm when damp, it's still damp. I do have one wool/polyester blend top that's OK (Lavawool). At this point, I've pretty much given up on the search for the ultimate base layer.

I think it really just comes down to how much you sweat, which varies from one individual to the next. If you sweat hard, nothing is going to keep you dry. Some of us are just doomed to be damp.

The stick felt slow when doing a sweep until I realized my blad is not flat on the water. Then I just let the blade float next to the kayak before I started the sweep.

One of the most important things to learn about rolling with a GP is to slow down. If one is used to rolling with a Euro blade, the tendency is to go quickly and use abrupt motions. A GP responds better when you slow down and use the lift that the blade generates. If you push it too fast, you can get aeration and stalling, both of which kill lift. Rolling with a GP is a smooth, relaxing motion that should be basically effortless, at least when doing a standard roll.

I then tried to roll on my off side.

Your mistake here is thinking that you have "on" and "off" sides. Thinking this way creates the expectation that one side is going to be more difficult than the other, which as you discovered, is not necessarily the case. It may feel different left to right, but the technique is identical so there is no reason that one side should be more difficult than the other. Using those terms (which I despise) simply sets up a psychology/rationalization for failure. I suggest that every paddler banish those terms from their paddling vocabulary and simply refer to left and right side rolls.

My question is about the hold of the greenland paddle with the inside hand. I was holding the paddle by the tip of the blade and then someone suggested I hold the paddle about 5 inches down the blade. When I asked why the person wasn't sure only to say that is what they always heard should be done.

You're doing the same thing most people do when learning to roll with a GP on their own. If you've been doing extended paddle rolls with a Euro paddle, the only place you can hold the blade is by the tip, so you naturally do it with the GP, too. Holding it by the blade forces you to keep your hands in a "chin-up" position during the sweep, which promotes a proper layback as well. Once you get a feel for it, you will roll effortlessly.

Tow one of these http://www.kayakkaboose.com/ behind your kayak though Boston harbor and I would bet that the CG would start looking at you.

Well, DUHHHHH! Tow that or even paddle in any "sensitive" area and you're asking for trouble.

My point above was that if you don't go around causing concern for the CG by doing things you shouldn't be, they're not going to bother you, as they have better/more important things to do.

My $.02 is that the CG has the legal authority to impose a civil penalty of $1,000 for a violation of the rules regarding required equipment. An approved PFD is a item of required equipment. If a modified PFD is declared to be an unapproved PFD, then you do not have required equipment and can be subject to civil penalty. It is indirect, but that is how it goes. I'm not saying I'd worry about it. Just if things get technical and picky that is the path they would go down. Stuff happens. I know someone who was paddling in a kayak and the coasties came up and demanded he show them an ID. It was a little unnerving as the M60 was manned and pointed in his direction.

To put it in perspective, a violation of the Rules can result in a civil penalty of $5,000 and the improper use of a VHF radio can result in a criminal fine of $10,000 and imprisonment.

To add some "real" perspective: What are the odds that the CG is going to actually inspect your PFD for compliance? I'd say they're about zero. If you're out paddling legally and wearing a PFD - as opposed to not - the CG is not going to bother you. I've seen them watching a group of us through binoculars and all they've ever done is give us a quick scan, then move on. The only contact I can recall having with them is once when we were engaged in rescue practice and I paddled over to them to let them know what we were doing and that we didn't need any assistance. They're not out there to harass kayakers and don't seem to have any interest in doing so.

One other thing to keep in mind regarding PFDs is that the CG routinely wears vests full of gear over their PFDs, which they told us (at a kayaker/CG meeting) are perfectly legal under the regulations. Given that, I don't think anyone is going to hassle you about having a hydration pack/knife/radio attached to your PFD. CG-approved PFDs are available with a broad array of pockets, hydration pockets, lash tabs and such, so obviously, they expect that people are going to use them. Besides, attaching something to the PFD is not technically a modification, as you haven't changed the PFD itself in any way. What they don't want you to do is to modify the construction of the PFD.

IMO, theorizing about potential problems with the CG is a complete waste of time. My experience has been that they are very supportive of responsible kayakers. As long as we're not causing headaches for them - or other boaters - they leave us alone.

Too late for that, as I've already trimmed them. When the time comes to replace them, I'll look into the conical seals, but as I said before, I've trimmed the standard seals on three dry suits and it doesn't cause a problem. When you get right down to it, once you get past the "bottleneck" section of the seal, it becomes conical, though the taper is rather abrupt. I typically can leave a small section of the bottleneck and achieve a comfortable fit, as the real problem is having 1 1/2"-2" of latex squeezing my wrists, which is what you get with the stock seals. You can easily make your own trimming lines using a drafting compass, if you need them, but I've never had a problem just trimming them by eye.

I'm also looking into making my own seals from Glideskin neoprene, as that will allow me to custom-fit them. Linda's suit needs new seals, so I'll probably do hers first. There are DIY instructions for this at: http://good-times.webshots.com/album/561069017EIvojn

The only thing holding me up is that the neoprene supplier listed doesn't respond to emails.

Linda can give you some insight on drop seats. If you don't have her email address, give me a shout and I'll send it to you.

That's interesting, as Kokatat was the big promoter of stretching neck seals in the past. I guess they finally figured out that it doesn't work for most people. Good for them.

Although wrist seals are not designed the same as neck seals, they can be trimmed. I have yet to find a wrist seal the fits me comfortably, stretched or not, so trimming is my only option. I've done it on three dry suits and two dry tops without any problems.

I'm making a Greenland paddle out of Sitka Spruce and would like someone with a power planer to help me plane this to dimension. There is certainly a six-pack or bottle of wine in this for your help.

If you're going to be making GPs (nobody makes just one), you should proabably invest in a few tools (plane, spokeshave) and sharpening gear. It's very easy to justify it when you consider how much money you're saving by making your own paddles. As with any tools, once you own them, you'll find additional uses for them around the house.

To elaborate on Brian's post and to provide an alternative view, it is true that the legs straight paddling position requires a level of flexibility and core strength many lack and the storage space is less than a typical FG boat which are most often sized for multi day if not week touring as opposed to day paddles. However, once accustomed to the fit, a traditional SOF is a very comfy boat to paddle.

I never meant to imply that SOFs were uncomfortable, just that the paddling position is not natural for most people and it takes a while to become accustomed to it. In my glass boats - which have ocean cockpits - I pad the deck down so I get the same type of fit I have in my SOF. I prefer the Greenland-style position.

In part due to the fact is is quiet and "soft" in the water.

That's true, traditionally-sized SOFs tend to punch through waves, rather than riding over them. The ride is much smoother, but also much wetter. Part of the the SOF experience is learning to accept the Greenlandic philosophy that paddling is wet sport and that you paddle in the water as much as on it. An SOF gives you an intimate feel for the water that you don't get in many commercial boats.

It's also pretty cool when a wave washes over the front deck and the whole thing submerges up to the cockpit. It's really unnerving the first time it happens, but once you see that it WILL come back to the surface, it's fun!

I have never had a problem keeping gear dry nor in carrying a standard kit in my SOF by using combo float/storage bags.

It's not a problem to keep your gear dry, it's just that an SOF forces you to use dry bags. I can't think of anything more convenient than simply piling your gear into a hatch, but I'm not going to argue with your personal preference.

Of course coming out of one in rough water would be a very serious matter indeed.

Yeah, it can be, especially if the boat doesn't have adequate flotation installed. Even with that, it's hard not to flood the cockpit when re-entering a low volume boat in rough water. There are good reasons why rolling goes hand-in-hand with SOFs.

Personally I do not believe it is easier to roll using a GP than a EP nor do I believe a traditional SOF is easier to roll than a good FG.

I have to disagree with you here, as in my experience, both the GP and a low volume SOF make a dramatic difference in rolling. If you can roll a glass boat with an EP, you'll find a GP makes it absolutely effortless. A low volume SOF will allow you to learn rolls that you wouldn't believe you could do. Once you have the technique down, you can typically learn to do the same thing in a good FG design, but the SOF makes learning advanced rolls much easier.

Traditional Greenland hunting boats were optimized for hunting as done in the locations in which they were built. Those desired traits may or may not be remotely similar to the traits a modern recreational paddler would like. So you need to take them as they are. For example most West Greenland boats weathercock quite a bit in relatively light wind because that was a good thing when stalking game and setting up to throw a harpoon or shoot a rifle.

It's true that Greenlanders often designed their boats to weathercock, but they also had strap-on skegs to correct that tendency when they didn't need it. A well-designed SOF can be just as neutral in wind as any other boat. It's all in how you build it, which is one of the beauties of these boats. You can design it to do anything you want.

They do not seem to "edge" the same way as most FG boats

That's largely due to the narrow beam and low volume. When you edge a wider commercial boat, one of the effects is that it lifts the ends out of the water somewhat, allowing the boat to pivot around the axis of the cockpit. The narrower the boat, the less pronounced this effect is.

A higher volume boat also simply has more hull to edge before the gunwale dips into the water. With low volume boats, once the aft deck gunwale is in the water, it's going to dig in and be harder to turn. My Pintail does this too and it can actually be easier to turn it by leaning it into the turn, like a bike. This was something that Nigel Foster pointed out to me.

I don't want anyone to think that I'm anti-SOF in any way. I've built three and may build more one of these days. I don't use the one I kept nearly as much as Ed does, for reasons that I've elaborated, but that doesn't mean I don't like it.

Mine must have been made in the same batch! Gaskets were okay, but boy did it fill up with water in October! Sent it to Kokatat and they returned a brand new one. Delamination of the fabric.

Customer service is superb, and their gear excellent.

Gail

While I certainly agree that Kokatat's service is excellent, I just want to point out that the reason they can do this is that Gore covers the fabric with a lifetime warranty against delamination and other defects. That's why it's worth the extra money to buy Gore-Tex products.

In my own case, I had a Stohlquist dry suit that delaminated, but they don't make Gore-Tex suits any longer. When I contacted Gore, they examined the suit, agreed that it was delaminating and they replaced it with a Kokatat Expedition (my choice) at no charge. THAT'S what I call outstanding customer service!

There is a lot of emphasis on rolling among the Greenland/SOF crowd, too much in my opinion. This trend seems to be especially strong on the east coast (paddlers in other parts of the country often refer to "east coast rollers"). Many people even build special "rolling boats". However, SOFs can be very good general purpose boats as well, if they're built for that purpose. I wouldn't use mine in rock gardens, though some people do, but beyond that, anything goes, really.

I suspect that the main reason you don't see more SOFs on the water is the same reason I don't use mine much: convenience. SOFs are typically low volume boats that can't carry much gear and what they can accommodate is not easy to access. You have to use float bags and all your gear needs to go into dry bags. In other words, they're somewhat of a pain to deal with, especially if you carry all the NSPN-recommended gear with you when you paddle. I just find that it's easier to take a glass boat with bulkheads and hatches that easily accommodate all my junk. Additionally, in cold weather/water situations, I like the extra safety of a hard-shell boat with watertight compartments (I typically keep float bags in my 'glass boats too, especially if any rock play or surfing are planned.).

OTOH, if you're the minimalist type who doesn't carry much more than you can fit in your PFD pockets, an SOF may be just the ticket for you.

Another reason is that it takes considerable time to adapt to the straight-legged paddling position in a traditionally-sized Greenland SOF. Many people simply can't adapt well enough to be comfortable for long hours in the boat. Rolling sessions where you're constantly moving around or getting in and out of the boat are not so much of a problem.

There is also the issue of perceived fragility. SOFs are more durable than most people think they are, but there is still a general belief that they are frail craft. If you build them ultra-light, they can be, but built in the range of 35-40# for an 18' boat, they're quite rugged.

The bottom line is that SOF boats require a certain level of commitment and compromises that plastic and glass boats don't. Apparently most people don't want to go down that path. Additionally, most SOF paddlers build their boats, which is a whole 'nuther level of commitment.

Forget attached gloves on drysuits for kayaking, too many problems..

That was the conclusion I came to as well. There are two major problems with the idea of attached gloves:

1- There are times on the water when you need the dexterity of bare hands, it's not just something you need on land. In a pinch, you need to be able to take off your gloves quickly, which leads to the next problem:

2- The quick detach systems designed for diving dry suits (wrist rings) totally compromise your dry suit when the gloves are detached. A capsize would result in t flood of water entering at the wrists. The wrist ring system is meant for use in an activity - diving - where you never take off your gloves except when donning or removing your gear before and after dives.

Dry gloves are great for keeping your hands warm, but they're a pain to get on and off. What I usually do in winter is to wear my dry gloves, but keep a pair of neoprene gloves on my deck as well. If I need to pull off the dry gloves and circumstances don't allow me to put them back on, I'll either stow them in my PFD or in the cockpit, then slip on the neoprene gloves and use them until I get to a place where I can put the dry gloves back on.

One option some may like.... NE Fishing gear in Portsmouth sells a neoprene glove that has a sleeve/ cuff that comes up your forearm. I have a worn out pair that I liked. You don't get that little bit of water hitting your wrist in waves. Mine are labeled as "Mad Dog gear by Stearns"

I have a pair of those too, and I agree that they're handy, though not as warm as dry gloves. I think I bought mine at Walmart in the hunting department (waterfowl hunters use them for setting decoys). Like all 3mm neoprene gloves, they develop leaks within a season of use. I now use mine mostly for washing the car in cool/cold weather. I can reach into a bucket of cold, soapy water without freezing my hands.