CAM Discussion #1: Radios

[rfolster]

I would like to start by thanking Leon for a “lesson learned” that he offered to share with us on a recent trip report. Luckily it ended up as a non-event, but I was inspired to evaluate the Common Adventure Model (CAM) and how it is approached by the NSPN membership. After toiling with what felt like a short novel for the last hour or so in an attempt to cover all the thoughts swimming in my skull, I decided to take another route and look at some key elements of the CAM system. In this installment, I wanted to discuss communication as a general topic, but even that was still too broad and would spiral in too many directions. Therefore, I will limit this discussion just to the usage of VHF radios, and will address other issues in separate posts.

As a brand new owner of a VHF radio, let me say that I am not an expert or a know-it-all, but only want to bring the discussion into greater focus and determine, if possible, what is the most appropriate usage for this piece of equipment. I am not looking for a discussion about the different models of radios, or the USCG requirements for what type of boats are and are not required to utilize them, but merely to discuss whether or not NSPN members should be caring and using their radios. Many of us own them, but there is a wide variety of usage that ranges from constant to never.

My observations lead me to think that some people may consider when they will want to use their radios, and not when they will need to use them? In light of some recent discussions of whether or not you should actually wear one or keep it in a hatch, I would like to compare it to a tow belt. I am curious to know if there anyone out there who owns a tow belt that does not wear it but keeps it in a hatch? Let's not get off topic with this one - tow belts can/will be another discussion thread.

I personally consider radios to be a piece of safety equipment that needs to be ready in an emergency, which may not be your own. That bring me to the question of whether or not to keep the radio on, and I went back to my tow belt to find another correlation. I think that it equates to keeping the carabineer out and readily accessible, and not stored in the pouch where it is difficult to access in an emergency. Any takers on that analogy? (Even I have trouble staying on topic!) Anyway, even on lunch breaks, there might be someone near by sending out a distress call that we can help or at least assist until help arrives.

What are the cons of wearing and using a radio? I know that they typically don’t like salt water and need a considerable amount of maintenance. They are big and clunky, and can get in the way of performing re-entries and eating lunch. The antenna stick up your nose or can poke your eye out. Do the rewards of wearing a radio out way the risks? Maybe. I think that anyone that has had to be rescued truly rescued (by the Coast Guard or other vessels) might think so.

My basic point is this: if you own a VHF radio, why not turn it on and have it available when you are on the water? You not only use it to communicate with other member of your group (when not in voice range of course - that will be yet another topic), but to listen for other radio traffic that may concern you, or just for weather alerts. Most importantly, shouldn't you be listening for emergencies that you may be able to assist? I understand that if you are on a multi-day trip and need to conserve battery power, then you may need to consider your power usage. However, I would consider bringing a second battery rather than risking loss of power to the radio.

I encourage all to post their thoughts and musings on this topic of whether or not to wear and use a VHF radio. I will be posting other CAM conversations over time, but if anyone sees the need to go off topic from this thread, feel free to start one up. My hope is that these postings will provide all of us with different insights that can help us all approach our activity with greater safety.

[ThomasL]

Rob ,

I too recently purchased a radio and regard it as a piece of safety equipment. Last weekend my son and I were out for about 6 hours and with the radio scanning the frequencies hearing all the bridge open and pump out requests along and the kids setting up dates for the evening on this or that island the noise soon became a burden. I chose to simply monitor 16 and enjoy the paddle. I purchased the DSC equipped device more as an emergency tool than a means of communication. It did get in the way clipped and tethered to the deck in front of me, and seemed to serve little purpose on a sunny trip to Magnolia. On an occasional winter paddle I will no doubt appreciate it's utility much more.

I'm not a club event paddler involving myself in group expeditions/overnights, so my perspective is limited. However, A radio and some knowledge of proper transmit/receive procedures and courtesy certainly is of great benefit to anyone choosing to go to sea in our minimal craft.

Tom

[bob budd]

Having a radio in your hatch is pretty much not having a radio as demonstrated in Leon's "lesson". With that I will admit that I started by keeping the radio on the deck and on then and have slipped to no longer bringing it on most paddles. When using the radio proper procedure is essential, especially switching channels and local knowledge and recommended practice as regards channel usage. Ideally it is a skill practiced and thus familiar not like paddling strokes and rescues. Adam Bolonsky once had a "course" on protocol and command usage, e.g. pon-pon. There also used to be a coastie or ex-coastie here and there that provided access to CG practice, preference, and expertise.

[EEL]

Ideally it is a skill practiced ..... like paddling strokes and rescues.

Yes indeed. And how many practice rescues over and over and over, but do not take the time to learn and practice appropriate radio usage or even learn how to use the features of the radio? If it is a piece of important safety gear, then we should be skilled in its use too.

Ed Lawson

[Paul Sylvester]

I wear mine in my vest and hardly turn it on with a group unless the group gets broken up and I suspect a problem. Use it to notify that you are crossing a foggy channel. The large boats will thank you..

On a busy summer day I might listen to the chatter if I am by myself but it is mosly chit chat about fishing. For emergencies I just watch whats around me. If I see an issue I would respond as called for.

Once heard a call for a person in the water and within minutes saw the CG rushing there but we were at least a mile away. Time and distance..

You should put out a call if you are going to do a lot of rescues in an area that might look inhospitable due to concerned shore dwellers and gawkers with cell phones.

[gyork]

......whether or not to keep the radio on...

For me this is a no-brainer, but in a group paddle, everyone must share the same attitude, for when cats stray how will you herd them if they (independent creatures) have chosen not to participate?

I understand that if you are on a multi-day trip and need to conserve battery power, then you may need to consider your power usage.

I don't think this is a consideration, but those in-the-know please correct me. I am not a frequent paddler, but my fully-charged ICOM-88 will last a season without recharging.

.....there might be someone near by sending out a distress call that we can help or at least assist until help arrives.

Seems to be a vanishingly rare event? ANYONE with anecdotal experience to the contrary?

Summary of my radio thoughts:

FOR GROUP PADDLES-

-Include this as a key element of the beach briefing. If you own a VHF turn it on, have it accessible (preferably attached to PFD-http://outdoors.webs.../63141273BimkGp), and turn it off when the day is over.

-perform radio (and skeg) checks immediately after each launch.

FOR SOLO PADDLES-

-Monitor channel 16 when weather threatens or forecast suggests a high likelihood of thunderstorms.

-Always on 16 when in fog and other high-risk conditions, and be prepared to make the securite (with the French accent), pan-pan, and mayday calls correctly.

[rfolster]

Adam Bolonsky once had a "course" on protocol and command usage, e.g. pon-pon. There also used to be a coastie or ex-coastie here and there that provided access to CG practice, preference, and expertise.

I have thought that a radio class or training session might be a good idea. It could be a refresher for those with radios and a learning opportunity for those without radios. We could also compare models for those shopping for new or replacements. Does anyone know of a private entity or a contact at the CG that would be able to assist with such an endevor?

[JohnHuth]

For a paddle of any length I always wear on and have it on Chan 16.

When launching, I do a radio check, which can sometimes be problematic, as the CG doesn't like you to use channel 16 for that, but often no one is listening on other channels. More often than not, the CG will query people on channel 16 if they've seen something, so it's good to be able to respond. It's also good to be able to report someone in distress if you see it.

A radio check is simply to see if someone hears you. You can say "Radio check, channel 68, please come back, over", and release the transmit button. Some kind soul on the same channel if they hear you will say "Radio check, channel, 68, I read you loud and clear, out". The typical transmission distance of hand-held VHF transceivers is maybe 4-5 miles.

I'll often do securite' calls when crossing a busy harbor entrance, particularly in the fog. You say "securite' securite' securite', this is sea kayaker blah-blah [your name or handle], crossing blah-blah channel [channel name], estimate time in channel of one minute [or whatever], will inform when clear, out"

Then when you finish crossing the harbor, you say "securite' securite' securite', this is sea kayaker blah-blah, I am clear of the blah-blah channel, out" The word "securite'" is pronounced "securitay" - it's from French

When you finish a statement and do not want a reply, you finish by saying "out". When you finish a statement or question that requires a response, you say at the end "over". This means you have released the transmit button and the other person can then respond.

Typically, if you initiate a non-emergency hail to another person, you propose to switch from channel 16 to another channel (e.g. 68) to communicate.

When I'm traveling with other kayakers, we'll try to agree on a common channel for communication before shoving off. Generally this isn't a problem as I try to stay in voice contact. Sometimes, however, a group might split up for whatever reason, then it's a good policy to monitor each other, particularly if conditions are difficult or it's getting late.

I don't find carrying the transceiver much of a problem.

My recommendation is to carry it for any paddle of significant length and let people take turns doing the securite' call to get experience.

"pan pan pan" is for a emergency where there is no immediate threat to life. It's pronounced "pawn pawn pawn", you then communicate the nature of the emergency, whether you need aid etc.

"May day may day may day" is for an emergency where there is immediate threat to life. It comes from the French phrase, "m'aidez" or "help me".

In addition to the CG and other boaters, most harbormasters have offices that monitor VHF transmissions and direct traffic. You'll often hear people ask if berths for their boats are available in harbors. Lobstermen will just yak on some non-emergency channel.

If the CG is engaged in a mission of some kind, they'll typically direct the communication to channel 22, if free.

More info can be found here:

http://www.coastalbo...adioBasics.html

[Phil Allen]

.......

I don't think this is a consideration, but those in-the-know please correct me. I am not a frequent paddler, but my fully-charged ICOM-88 will last a season without recharging.

.

Gary, I presume you mean when its off, not if your monitoring of 6-8 hours each day?

Phil

[Phil Allen]

Ok, just read Lisa and Leon's minor incident/ confusion that inspired the discussion. Knowing that I'm stirring the pot, I'd argue that if you need to use the radio to talk to other folks in your group that you might as well be paddling alone. Radios can be a great safety tool, but they can't replace common sense and good group behavior.

Best

Phil

[leong]

Radios can be a great safety tool, but they can't replace common sense and good group behavior.

Best

Phil

Yes, but like a PFD, towline, spare paddle, etc. a radio can save your life.

Come on Phil, common sense, huh? Ever paddle in rough water in a group of two or more? It's almost impossible to stay parallel to one another. Someone's bound to be last. If he goes over he might not be noticed for a while. The radio can save his life. Common sense is for all to carry radios and have them turned on. Is that the common sense that you're talking about?

[Phil Allen]

Yes, but like a PFD, towline, spare paddle, etc. a radio can save your life.

...... If he goes over he might not be noticed for a while. ....

I'd say that if it's a while before some one notices he\she went over, and the swimmer has to hail the group by radio, that it isn't any different than paddling solo. You've given up the benefit of being in a group when folks get that spread out.

That said, there are all kinds of safety benefits to paddling with a radio. I tuck it in my PDF when I paddle solo. It's in the hatch between my knees at ready access otherwise.

Best

Phil

[PeterB]

Using a radio as an excuse to paddle out of the line of sight, and out of communication (voice/hand signal) range - of other group members is simply bad paddling practice. If "a paddler goes over and is not noticed for a while" and then radios are invoked as the tool by which they are rescued, it ignores the question of why did group members "not notice for a while"( because they had radios and felt that they could afford to?)

" Common sense" is for paddlers to remain within communication (voice, hand signal) and within line of sight of each other: to discard this simple and fundamental tenet of sound paddling practice is to invite just those occurences for which a radio should never be needed in the first place.

Radios are invaluable as tools to communicate with the outside world while on the water : monitoring weather, making securite calls when others in the area need to be advised of your presence, or what you are doing, and, in the extreme, to summon outside help when it is needed. But to use as an essential tool by which a group maintains communication with each other is shoddy practice, all too often invoked by posters here.

[Gcosloy]

Some of us have been in seas and wind where staying close enough to be heard vocally is too dangerous. Greater separation and a radio is preferable in this situation. The problem I see often is that one or more paddlers has their's switched off, to save the battery presumably.

[gyork]

Gary, I presume you mean when its off, not if your monitoring of 6-8 hours each day?

Phil

Phil, can't say I've tested the "monitor" function for 6-8 hours x 5 days, the longest I've paddled in a group. Most of my extended trips are solo and my monitoring hours are limited to weather forecast. Shall I do a dry land test to simulate a group sea safari? If my fully charged ICOM indicates a full charge level of 7.8, for example, at what numeric level would my ability to transmit or receive be compromised (what percent of full charge)? Related: does my Li-ion battery prefer to be fully discharged before re-charging, or doesn't it care?

[Phil Allen]

Some of us have been in seas and wind where staying close enough to be heard vocally is too dangerous. Greater separation and a radio is preferable in this situation. The problem I see often is that one or more paddlers has their's switched off, to save the battery presumably.

Gene with all due respect, if you can't even talk to folks because they can't control their boat, how good will they be if you need a rescue?

[Gcosloy]

Phil,

It's an unwarranted assumption that people cannot control their boats. If we're both paddling side by side in a large beam sea we must needs be apart by many feet. The same conditions may prompt us to separate for and aft as well. At this point neither of us may hear each other. What part of what I posted led you to believe that boat control was an issue?

[leong]

Boys and girls,

My common sense tells me to carry my VHF radio (whether I’m paddling alone or with someone else). If your common sense tells you otherwise, then that’s okay, it’s your personal risk analysis. However, some of you Rambo wannabe types assume that you’re so good that you’ll never get into trouble, especially when you’re in a group of two or more competent paddlers. I have news for you … you might not know what you don’t know. Ask Keith and John; read the report here http://www.nspn.org/...?showtopic=3177 where they used every piece of safety equipment they had and just barely survived.

Peter and Phil: Phil, you said “You've given up the benefit of being in a group when folks get that spread out.” Not true in general. When I’m doing long-distance race-training with a partner or two (like the other day from Manchester to the Nahant area and back) we are moving almost as fast as we can. Occasionally, the front paddler gets too far ahead of the back paddler for comfort and it’s necessary to yell out, whistle or use the radio to close the gap. These long-distance race-training paddles are not like the usual slow-moving NSPN trips. On that type of trip the gap wouldn’t be a problem because the back paddler could always sprint ahead to close the gap. But suppose a group of two are paddling near their maximum speed, say, 6-mph. If a gap widens, the paddler in the back may not have enough reserve energy to catch up to the front paddler. Hence, VHF calling is occasionally necessary to close the gap. More often than not, this happens in rough and windy weather where it’s hard for the front paddler to keep track of the back paddler. We usually paddle side-by-side to prevent these gaps but it doesn’t always work out that way.

Phil, you said,” if you can't even talk to folks because they can't control their boat, how good will they be if you need a rescue?” Well, I’ve been paddling since 1995 and now paddle 12 months per year (perhaps 60 or 70 miles per week). I think I have pretty good skills for handling my boat. I’ve been in conditions where neither of us could control our boats. But, still, I’d rather that you’d be nearby me than not.

Just a general comment to all:

We all have lapses in common sense. In 2004 I rented a wave ski in Florida and surfed a large wave into a barely submerged reef. This resulted in a fractured femoral neck of my left leg (a second operation is happening this month). Since then I know I’m not Rambo. Be careful, no one knows everything that they don’t know. I didn’t know that there was a reef so close to shore.

Respectfully,

Leon

[PeterB]

If one is paddling in conditions where being close enough to communicate is considered dangerous, or if one feels that, to be safe, they must be far enough away that radios are then needed to communicate, then the participants, whether that know it or not, have boat control issues to the degree that they are in conditions beyond their level. If needing radios to get one out of a situation into which unsound paddling practice got one in the first place, the discussion would be better served if it focused on paddling practice, and judgment rather than electronics.

[leong]

If one is paddling in conditions where being close enough to communicate is considered dangerous, or if one feels that, to be safe, they must be far enough away that radios are then needed to communicate, then the participants, whether that know it or not, have boat control issues to the degree that they are in conditions beyond their level. If needing radios to get one out of a situation into which unsound paddling practice got one in the first place, the discussion would be better served if it focused on paddling practice, and judgment rather than electronics.

Peter,

You get what the ocean throws at you. You could start out on a fairly calm day and things could change for the worse.

This happened once on a fast loop around Cape Ann. It was calm all of the way from GHS to Braces Cove (clockwise) and then the big bump began. My partner and I could easily handle the conditions, but it was difficult to stay close enough to shout to each other. Each of us could safely continue the trip solo; however, the radios were just used to just keep in touch for the added safety of helping us stay close together.

Methinks it’s not worth it to ever publish trip reports where there was any potential incident or lesson-learned. It’s just not worth the hassle of defending oneself against all of the self-appointed experts who think they know better than the paddler’s that actually did the trip.

Leon

[EEL]

I have the impression that many newer members and others often rely upon discussions here to learn about equipment, techniques and general paddling information. In fact I believe this thread was started for that reason. There are paddlers in the club who are highly skilled and who regulalry and without incident, for the most part, paddle in "consequential" conditions and locations. They do so with a level of ease that enables them to be aware of their fellow paddlers and to stay positioned to quickly assist others. I am not one of them by any means. Unfortunately, but uderstandably, they seldom post comments. I hope those who seek guidance from these threads are able to separate the chaff from the wheat.

Ed Lawson

[Phil Allen]

Leon, I feel your being defensive for no good reason. Clearly a radio is good piece of safety gear. I'd argue that Peter and my point is that it doesn't replace good group management. Racing, or training for racing by paddling as fast as you can, is clearly a case of paddling without the benefit of a group. Your radio might be used to talk with a training partner to render aid, but it could just as well be used to get help from a random boater.

Best

Phil

[rick stoehrer]

"My observations lead me to think that some people may consider when they will want to use their radios, and not when they will need to use them? In light of some recent discussions of whether or not you should actually wear one or keep it in a hatch, I would like to compare it to a tow belt. I am curious to know if there anyone out there who owns a tow belt that does not wear it but keeps it in a hatch? Let's not get off topic with this one - tow belts can/will be another discussion thread."

- my general thoughts on the topic.

difference between a radio and a tow belt is that you wear a tow belt for "the other guy". your wearing a tow belt doesn't aid you (unless you hand it to someone and say "tow me") whereas a radio can directly aid you personally.

i put my radio in my pocket. it's tucked away and i never have to worry about it. i suppose securely clipped ON is fine but i have no experience with that method. in any event, anything that isn't in/on your pfd, you don't really have. day hatches are fine for things you might want. things you NEED when it comes right down to it, oughta be on you. i might like lunch...day hatch. i might need this radio to call the coasties and get our arses outta here...pfd. i might like sunscreen...day hatch. i might need this dye marker/strobe...pfd. as much as i might need i try to have on me, barring that it then goes in the day hatch in the likely order i might need it. the cag/hat is generally the last thing in as it's likely to be the first thing out on the water...that sort of thinking.

be sure to announce your channel crossings, especially on a foggy day. there are folks out there working and not looking for you....announce where your crossing from/going to and estimated transit. announce when you've cleared the channel...let's the folks working know they no longer have to worry about you being in the way.

unless i expect to hear from someone or have arranged to use it to communicate, it's off....i might turn it on if i thought the weather/forecast looked sketchy so i can get any weather updates. otherwise i don't leave it on. i don't think it's realistic/reasonable to think that you are going to respond to a sail / power / commercial boat emergency.

i almost NEVER use it in a group. be closer than that. if you insist on using it as a group comms device, turn the squelch up (or the static will drive you batty) and leave it on or it's utterly useless...probably you should decide on a channel beforehand too.

our radios are line of sight...we sit roughly 3 feet off the water and if we're trying to communicate with another kayaker with a radio 3 feet off the water our effective communication range is very limited...and if there's anything in the way (rock, island, etc) the radio's aren't very effective.

a radio is NOT a get out of jail free card. limited range, power, etc....better to have one than not but don't think that just because you have one, you're going to reach anyone...probably, but not necessarily.

if you do manage to comm with the CG and let them know you're in trouble, you still have a response time....and then you have to wonder about whether or not they have a vessel that can get to you. we're shallow water craft and while CG ribbies don't have much draft, they aren't the most stable boat the coasties have either....it might be too rough for that boat to reach you. couple guys experienced that a few years back offa PI...just cause you contact anyone doesn't mean you're home free...they have to be able to get to you.

radio's rust out regardless of any claim to "waterproof". ALWAYS buy the insurance through west marine. for $50 insurance, i get a new radio every time the leads/battery corrodes.

as for leons comment "it’s not worth it to ever publish trip reports where there was any potential incident or lesson-learned. It’s just not worth the hassle of defending oneself against all of the self-appointed experts who think they know better than the paddler’s that actually did the trip."

ah-ha...so you're just going to be the hero in your stories? BORING.

part of the value/merit to the forum is that we can come together and try to advance paddling/safety. i think it's part of the mission statement and the basis for our being a tax exempt 501-c entity. if we can agree that one of the ways we advance the sport and paddling safety is to discuss our thoughts and trips and observations (which includes our mistakes, faults and errors) then we need to agree to have those discussions in a non-recriminating manner. if you get creamed every time you post and "oops", then no one will do it, right? at the least, you have to try not to bristle when anything you mentioned gets parsed. you think i posted about that trip to plum island 7 years AFTER the event by mistake? no....fact is that while the observations and lessons are still valid, it's been 7 years and at this point, i don't care what anyone thinks about that trip...it was a long time ago. the experience is posted so that others CAN think to themselves "okay, don't do that" or "do this but not that" or whatever. plenty of lessons there...take them as you will.

we all fail. trick is to pick yourself up and not fail at the same thing again and again. i would rather be part of a community where i am comfortable admiting to falling down than one where i have to lie about being perfect - that doesn't do any of us any good.

we should think about THAT next time we're ready to rip somone's head off via "courage inducing and wisdom enhancing" electronic communication...take a breath, take a day...don't post angry and remember that sometimes conviction and experience are inversely related. it's great to ask questions, it's less great to sink sharpened barbs.

[leong]

"My observations lead me to think that some people may consider when they will want to use their radios, and not when they will need to use them? In light of some recent discussions of whether or not you should actually wear one or keep it in a hatch, I would like to compare it to a tow belt. I am curious to know if there anyone out there who owns a tow belt that does not wear it but keeps it in a hatch? Let's not get off topic with this one - tow belts can/will be another discussion thread."

- my general thoughts on the topic.

difference between a radio and a tow belt is that you wear a tow belt for "the other guy". your wearing a tow belt doesn't aid you (unless you hand it to someone and say "tow me") whereas a radio can directly aid you personally.

i put my radio in my pocket. it's tucked away and i never have to worry about it. i suppose securely clipped ON is fine but i have no experience with that method. in any event, anything that isn't in/on your pfd, you don't really have. day hatches are fine for things you might want. things you NEED when it comes right down to it, oughta be on you. i might like lunch...day hatch. i might need this radio to call the coasties and get our arses outta here...pfd. i might like sunscreen...day hatch. i might need this dye marker/strobe...pfd. as much as i might need i try to have on me, barring that it then goes in the day hatch in the likely order i might need it. the cag/hat is generally the last thing in as it's likely to be the first thing out on the water...that sort of thinking.

be sure to announce your channel crossings, especially on a foggy day. there are folks out there working and not looking for you....announce where your crossing from/going to and estimated transit. announce when you've cleared the channel...let's the folks working know they no longer have to worry about you being in the way.

unless i expect to hear from someone or have arranged to use it to communicate, it's off....i might turn it on if i thought the weather/forecast looked sketchy so i can get any weather updates. otherwise i don't leave it on. i don't think it's realistic/reasonable to think that you are going to respond to a sail / power / commercial boat emergency.

i almost NEVER use it in a group. be closer than that. if you insist on using it as a group comms device, turn the squelch up (or the static will drive you batty) and leave it on or it's utterly useless...probably you should decide on a channel beforehand too.

our radios are line of sight...we sit roughly 3 feet off the water and if we're trying to communicate with another kayaker with a radio 3 feet off the water our effective communication range is very limited...and if there's anything in the way (rock, island, etc) the radio's aren't very effective.

a radio is NOT a get out of jail free card. limited range, power, etc....better to have one than not but don't think that just because you have one, you're going to reach anyone...probably, but not necessarily.

if you do manage to comm with the CG and let them know you're in trouble, you still have a response time....and then you have to wonder about whether or not they have a vessel that can get to you. we're shallow water craft and while CG ribbies don't have much draft, they aren't the most stable boat the coasties have either....it might be too rough for that boat to reach you. couple guys experienced that a few years back offa PI...just cause you contact anyone doesn't mean you're home free...they have to be able to get to you.

radio's rust out regardless of any claim to "waterproof". ALWAYS buy the insurance through west marine. for $50 insurance, i get a new radio every time the leads/battery corrodes.

as for leons comment "it’s not worth it to ever publish trip reports where there was any potential incident or lesson-learned. It’s just not worth the hassle of defending oneself against all of the self-appointed experts who think they know better than the paddler’s that actually did the trip."

ah-ha...so you're just going to be the hero in your stories? BORING.

part of the value/merit to the forum is that we can come together and try to advance paddling/safety. i think it's part of the mission statement and the basis for our being a tax exempt 501-c entity. if we can agree that one of the ways we advance the sport and paddling safety is to discuss our thoughts and trips and observations (which includes our mistakes, faults and errors) then we need to agree to have those discussions in a non-recriminating manner. if you get creamed every time you post and "oops", then no one will do it, right? at the least, you have to try not to bristle when anything you mentioned gets parsed. you think i posted about that trip to plum island 7 years AFTER the event by mistake? no....fact is that while the observations and lessons are still valid, it's been 7 years and at this point, i don't care what anyone thinks about that trip...it was a long time ago. the experience is posted so that others CAN think to themselves "okay, don't do that" or "do this but not that" or whatever. plenty of lessons there...take them as you will.

we all fail. trick is to pick yourself up and not fail at the same thing again and again. i would rather be part of a community where i am comfortable admiting to falling down than one where i have to lie about being perfect - that doesn't do any of us any good.

we should think about THAT next time we're ready to rip somone's head off via "courage inducing and wisdom enhancing" electronic communication...take a breath, take a day...don't post angry and remember that sometimes conviction and experience are inversely related. it's great to ask questions, it's less great to sink sharpened barbs.

Good post Rick. The thing that gets me pissed off is when people respond to actual incidents with standard platitudes such as that common sense is your most important safety item. Oh, duh, I must have missed that in graduate school. The other thing that pisses me off is when people respond to the wrong thing. They should read my damn post. I never said that either my partner or I was in trouble or that the water was too rough for us. All I said was I was foolish to keep paddling before I saw my partner emerge from the cut through the rocks. The VHF part was just to demonstrate how damn handy it was to communicate that neither one of us was lost.

In a much earlier post about a trip to the Isles of Shoals there was a lot of discussions about why I didn't tow someone. If they read the report carefully they would have noticed that there was no need to tow anybody!

Yeah, I'm sick and tired of all the inapplicable comments to half-read reports.

If someone doesn’t want to carry a VHF, I don’t care. My risk analysis says I should carry one. Case closed. The rest is all bulls**t.

Respectfully,

Leon

PS

Rick, I actually appreciated your comment on the IOS thread ... exactly what I was thinking: “what am I going to say to the spouse of the one I lost”.

[nancysan]

Thanks, John, for going over the basics of radio use in your informative message.