Salem Sound Rescue

[rylevine]

Lucky guy to have a nearby boat. He admits that otherwise it would have been the end, and this in the harbor!

http://www.salemnews.com/local/x833654990/Boater-rescued-from-the-harbor

So far this spring have seen a half dozen under-dressed paddlers in Salem sound. My policy is to confront them only if children are involved - but not sure if that is correct. Opinions as spring paddling begins?

Bob

[bob budd]

I've never gotten an adult response to a comment in insufficient preparation and/or dress for kayaking. That doesn't make it wrong or a bad idea. The thing is the water in this area is never "that warm".

[rick stoehrer]

Lucky guy to have a nearby boat. He admits that otherwise it would have been the end, and this in the harbor!

http://www.salemnews.com/local/x833654990/Boater-rescued-from-the-harbor

So far this spring have seen a half dozen under-dressed paddlers in Salem sound. My policy is to confront them only if children are involved - but not sure if that is correct. Opinions as spring paddling begins?

Bob

while your manner and intent are surely different, you said it yourself...confronting them. how likely are you to be be open to some perceived self righteous clown CHALLENGING your ability or preparedness to do something?

in your dry suit, you could always get in to burp it and make a big show and proclamation to your paddling buddies about "wow, glad i have this on, you wouldn't last long in water like this" sort of thing but how else are you going to make the point?

if you can cajole, coax, urge persuade, express concern, bequile, enchant or otherwise wheedle this point of view across you've won...and are possibly a politician i won't spit at.

few years back someone asked as to whether or not they should PHYSICALLY prevent someone from launching...which is, what? assault or battery? i can never remember. in any event, probably a bad idea.

[prudenceb]

while your manner and intent are surely different, you said it yourself...confronting them. how likely are you to be be open to some perceived self righteous clown CHALLENGING your ability or preparedness to do something?

in your dry suit, you could always get in to burp it and make a big show and proclamation to your paddling buddies about "wow, glad i have this on, you wouldn't last long in water like this" sort of thing but how else are you going to make the point?

if you can cajole, coax, urge persuade, express concern, bequile, enchant or otherwise wheedle this point of view across you've won...and are possibly a politician i won't spit at.

few years back someone asked as to whether or not they should PHYSICALLY prevent someone from launching...which is, what? assault or battery? i can never remember. in any event, probably a bad idea.

That would be battery - assault would be just shaking your fist at them in a menacing manner - pru

[rylevine]

while your manner and intent are surely different, you said it yourself...confronting them. how likely are you to be be open to some perceived self righteous clown CHALLENGING your ability or preparedness to do something?

Bad terminology. 'Confront' means basically to say something - not quite up to 'beguile', however. Nevertheless, even just mentioning the danger could be viewed as an aggressive act. I've always said something when kids are involved - which has happened twice in the last three years.

in your dry suit, you could always get in to burp it and make a big show and proclamation to your paddling buddies about "wow, glad i have this on, you wouldn't last long in water like this" sort of thing but how else are you going to make the point?

I like this idea. Our 'stuff' is visually pretty impressive!

Bob

[Gcosloy]

Sorry guys but short of getting into a fist fight I think we should leave our sensitive manner behind and give these paddlers our unsolicited opinion on each and every encounter that we come across. If every NSPN paddler did this it might just might make a difference to avoid one unfortunate incident in the Spring. Try something like this: "Hey buddy, you don't know me and you may resent what I have to say, but what you're doing is not really safe! Can I explain to you why?"

[rick stoehrer]

i 'may' have mentioned manipulation on saturday....

sunday did a guides (and coupla interns in a double) paddle out to see the seals out on the rocks by the mouth of the merrimac and boy was it slow going on the way back; it was getting late, we weren't going to be off the water by dark. perfect time for tandem tow races, let's have a competition! the 2 slowest boats were the tow-ee's but since we needed ANYONE to tow, they didn't feel bad about it and then the folks doing the towing were pulling hard cause they didn't want their friends to beat them. i was never in-line and just paddled slightly faster in the middle of the 2 groups - so i am a rabbit to catch and i can get anywhere i need to be if something goes wrong.

we made it back up in excellent time and were off the water and had the gear away before it got dark.

buttons, buttons, all these buttons....which ones to push?

[EEL]

Our 'stuff' is visually pretty impressive!

It is also the source of ridicule or at least bemusement at times so not sure how that plays out.

I recall once launching from Odiorne in April on a nice day surrounded by a mound of "stuff". On the ramp were several rec paddlers in shorts and sweatshirts getting ready to launch. I was thinking one or maybe both of us has gotten this all wrong in terms of a reasonable balance to have a pleasant, comfortable, and safe paddle. It seemed imprudent and contrary to our state motto to say anything to anybody and still does. FWIW, the F&G officers who were there were silent as well.

I'm sure they wandered about Little Harbor and had a great time. Who am I to say they were taking undue risks?

Ed Lawson

[tyson]

buttons, buttons, all these buttons....which ones to push?

Manipulative S.O.B.

[rick stoehrer]

It is also the source of ridicule or at least bemusement at times so not sure how that plays out.

I recall once launching from Odiorne in April on a nice day surrounded by a mound of "stuff". On the ramp were several rec paddlers in shorts and sweatshirts getting ready to launch. I was thinking one or maybe both of us has gotten this all wrong in terms of a reasonable balance to have a pleasant, comfortable, and safe paddle. It seemed imprudent and contrary to our state motto to say anything to anybody and still does. FWIW, the F&G officers who were there were silent as well.

I'm sure they wandered about Little Harbor and had a great time. Who am I to say they were taking undue risks?

Ed Lawson

right. the coasties don't say boo, the f&g don't say boo. it's not their business until someone ends up in the drink.

you can think those cotton clads are wrong and they'll think you're wrong but if you feel strongly, all you can do is try to make your point and get your message across without shutting down the audience....maybe that dunk opens up a dialogue and maybe it doesn't. they're still going to do what they damn well feel like but at least you did what you could.

your risk is YOUR risk. my risk is MY risk.

[tyson]

right. the coasties don't say boo, the f&g don't say boo. it's not their business until someone ends up in the drink.

That's not always the case.

[rick stoehrer]

That's not always the case.

i've never seen nor have i ever heard of the coasties or the f&g telling someone they can't go somewhere cause they're wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

they can tell you that your journey is manifestly unsafe and they'll intervene - imagine that it more often has to do with sea state and vessel but maybe there is a "wardrobe" proviso.

besides which....kayakers don't have ANY kind of authority, moral or otherwise so what the actual authorities do is besides the point.

[rylevine]

your risk is YOUR risk. my risk is MY risk.

The problem is that they really don't recognize the risk. The air is warm, seas calm, and they are out hundreds of feet from the shore sitting on 45 degree water in tee shirts and shorts probably thinking that all is well because they have a pfd (sometimes not even that). Should you paddle by without saying anything? Not even mention that they should get closer to shore so it is not certain death if they fall in?

Bob

[jason]

your risk is YOUR risk. my risk is MY risk.

The problem is that they really don't recognize the risk. The air is warm, seas calm, and they are out hundreds of feet from the shore sitting on 45 degree water in tee shirts and shorts probably thinking that all is well because they have a pfd (sometimes not even that). Should you paddle by without saying anything? Not even mention that they should get closer to shore so it is not certain death if they fall in?

Bob

People swim in the harbor all year long with just swim trunks. It's not for me but who am I to tell them that they can't go swim a mile+ in 30-50deg water.

[EEL]

I believe appropriate to add a little info snippet for new members that this thread, or one of similar ilk, is a Spring ritual at NSPN.

Ed Lawson

[PeterB]

Sorry guys but short of getting into a fist fight I think we should leave our sensitive manner behind and give these paddlers our unsolicited opinion on each and every encounter that we come across. If every NSPN paddler did this it might just might make a difference to avoid one unfortunate incident in the Spring. Try something like this: "Hey buddy, you don't know me and you may resent what I have to say, but what you're doing is not really safe! Can I explain to you why?"

This approach (shedding sensitive manner and giving unsolicited opinion) may be fitting for some of us , may not be for others. I don't think we should or shouldn't do any one thing or another when crossing paths with paddlers we judge to be ill-prepared for cold water. It's every individuals choice how they deal with this situation. And every situation involving us enlightened types and those unenlightened types is different, meriting a different manner and response. Personally, I'm fine if if others confronting paddlers with unsolicited opinion, but its not my style and I don't think others should tell me that I should do the same in this situation. Well, others can tell me , I suppose. I just wont listen to them.

The times I feel like I have effectively shared valuable information that was actually received has been in the context of sliding into a normal conversation and in the course of that conversation, information on hypothermia the hazards of the immediate environment, etc, is exchanged, perhaps in that insidious manner alluded to by Mr Stoehrer.

[Gcosloy]

I've actually had good results with a direct approach: About 3 seasons ago I came across a guy on Little Misery in a Pungo type boat without a spray skirt and cotton clothing. He lived in Salem and said he did this often. I carefully explained to him the dangers and contrasted his boat and gear with mine. I explained to him how when I was just starting out I was totally ignorant of safe paddling practice and had been trying to improve my own safe practices ever since. The next time I saw him which was a few months later he was transformed in many ways: spray skirt, wet suit and a new more sea worthy sea kayak. He could have made these transitions on his own but I like to think our earlier conversation had something to do with it.

I do agree with Peter that each member needs to be comfortable in following their own path; in this regard I'm just tying to provide another way that may work well for some. No one likes a busy body trying to tell them their business and no one likes being rebuked by a stranger who resents your interference in what they perceive to be a private matter. When it comes down however to a potential loss of life some of us may not want to stand on ceremony.

[gyork]

.....sliding into a normal conversation...

I think that is the key. Very late, perhaps last, I would offer him/her/them the yellow NSPN informational brochure titled "Paddle Smart!" that I am staring at on my work desk (future home: car glovebox).

[rick stoehrer]

I've actually had good results with a direct approach: About 3 seasons ago I came across a guy on Little Misery in a Pungo type boat without a spray skirt and cotton clothing. He lived in Salem and said he did this often. I carefully explained to him the dangers and contrasted his boat and gear with mine. I explained to him how when I was just starting out I was totally ignorant of safe paddling practice and had been trying to improve my own safe practices ever since. The next time I saw him which was a few months later he was transformed in many ways: spray skirt, wet suit and a new more sea worthy sea kayak. He could have made these transitions on his own but I like to think our earlier conversation had something to do with it.

I do agree with Peter that each member needs to be comfortable in following their own path; in this regard I'm just tying to provide another way that may work well for some. No one likes a busy body trying to tell them their business and no one likes being rebuked by a stranger who resents your interference in what they perceive to be a private matter. When it comes down however to a potential loss of life some of us may not want to stand on ceremony.

so, if YOU do something one us deems risky, we should confront you about it? even though you resent the interference in what you perceive to be a private matter, we don't want to stand on ceremony where there's the potential loss for life.

sell your boat. give away your gear. go to shore and never leave.

see? didn't work.

[tyson]

I believe appropriate to add a little info snippet for new members that this thread, or one of similar ilk, is a Spring ritual at NSPN.

I like rituals. They give life a feeling of comfort, home, predictability.

[rick stoehrer]

I like rituals. They give life a feeling of comfort, home, predictability.

yup.

my point is that it's none of my business what the hell anyone does or when they do it or how they do it and to some, leaving shore is crazy in skinny little boats and your better off not leaving shore.

[tyson]

When I go backcountry skiing, I carry a pack that looks like I'm going overnight camping. At the sight if my pack, I am often asked if I will be out overnight. When I answer that I'm just out for the day, the person asking is often a bit surprised and asks what all my stuff is for. From time to to time, my explanation of what happens if someone gets injured and/or the weather turns gets a wide eyed expression of realization of the risks they are exposed to in response. More often they just don't get it. However, when they do, its worth it.

[brambor]

Last weekend we went on a 7.4 mile paddle at a local lake with my kids, friends and some paddlers new to the sport.

It just happens that one had no sprayskirt, no drysuit, no gloves. Only what appeared to be a thin farmer john and a fleece top.

It was a nice warm day at the put in. My kids were bickering about putting on drysuits and there was some snickering about all the gear I was putting into the boat. I had spare set of warm clothes, cag, throw bag, tow line, food, drinks, extra gloves, extra neoprene hat, first aid, TP, matches...

Based what I had and what I saw from others I knew that the itinerary changed and that we would not venture too far out of the bay.

The smiles quickly dissipated once we got on the water, the cold wind started blowing and the cold water dripping onto hands drained warmth from the bodies. Couple of miles into the paddle I handed out first spare gloves. We poked in and out of protected inlets and had a good time. I said a few words of tips but in general those who were not prepared pretty much got the point by being out there.

Lessons conveyed without much being said.

When I go backcountry skiing, I carry a pack that looks like I'm going overnight camping. At the sight if my pack, I am often asked if I will be out overnight. When I answer that I'm just out for the day, the person asking is often a bit surprised and asks what all my stuff is for. From time to to time, my explanation of what happens if someone gets injured and/or the weather turns gets a wide eyed expression of realization of the risks they are exposed to in response. More often they just don't get it. However, when they do, its worth it.

[rylevine]

I've actually had good results with a direct approach: About 3 seasons ago I came across a guy on Little Misery in a Pungo type boat without a spray skirt and cotton clothing. He lived in Salem and said he did this often. I carefully explained to him the dangers and contrasted his boat and gear with mine. I explained to him how when I was just starting out I was totally ignorant of safe paddling practice and had been trying to improve my own safe practices ever since. The next time I saw him which was a few months later he was transformed in many ways: spray skirt, wet suit and a new more sea worthy sea kayak. He could have made these transitions on his own but I like to think our earlier conversation had something to do with it.

Gene,

Strange, I had a similar encounter about three years ago on Misery when a paddler; resplendent in dress, gear, craft, and knowledge, read the riot act to me concerning my cotton-y wear, pongo-ish craft (with flotation that sprang out with the slightest immersion), absent deck lines, and total lack of communication equipment. I assume this paddler has long forgotten the encounter, and does not realize the good deed he performed that day.

Bob

[Gcosloy]

Bob,

If memory serves I invited this person to try my Explorer and I think he found it a tight fit. If this adds to your encounter then I think I know who that masked man was!