lhunt

Hi, Rick, I use my GPS (Garmin 60CSx) for racing. Some of what has been said works, but is too slow for racing. You need something that doesn't require hands :-) I've never used an eTrex, but I've looked at documentation before to answer questions. Can't tell you in detail, but I'm going to assume that the software is similar to mine, but the screen is smaller. I think that's more or less the case. Some people have suggested waypoints. Yes, but the thing is, I don't think it will automatically determine that you have passed a waypoint then point you to the next one. So it doesn't work for racing. You're not going to stop and tell it to find the next waypoint. What I do in the Blackburn Challenge is put in ONE waypoint, at the endpoint of the longest straight leg of the race, and do a FIND on that. I also have loaded into the device a TRACK for the race. I use one from a previous circumnav, so I don't have to worry about map inaccuracies. I like to first edit the track on my computer to remove extra points from the straightaways to save space and to make straight lines where I want straight lines, but it isn't necessary. The TRACK shows as a curved green line going around the whole course. The FIND shows as a purple line pointing straight at the waypoint. If I did a race where I had no previous track, I would create the track and the waypoint using Google Earth rather than the Garmin map. The Garmin map I have is not very accurate. Getting from Google Earth into the Garmin requires some cursing, but it can be done. I haven't done it in a while. It required some converters that I found free online. Ask me if you need to do this... Before the race, I set the zoom level on the map page to something that will work - too far out and you can't see the track if you wander a little, too far in and you can't see any landmarks on the map. Practice it ahead of time and remember the zoom level number. During the race, if it's foggy, I put up the map page, set to "track up" (not "track north"). As I said, the TRACK shows as a curved green line going around the whole course. The FIND shows as a purple line pointing straight at the waypoint. At the start of the race, the FIND line is not useful yet - it points off to the side at the waypoint. Instead, I point my boat so that the current section of the TRACK on the map points to the top of the screen, and navigate that way. Later, when I start on the longest leg of the race I can look at the FIND line rather than the track. The FIND is better because you always get a pointer from where you are. The problem with the TRACK is that if you get far enough off it it won't show on the map any more. But it's way better than nothing. In a fog, I look at the map A LOT, to keep on the track. If you lose it, you have to stop and zoom out to figure out whether you need to turn left or right to get back onto the track. As you may remember from a previous thread, the whole map, track, and waypoint are oriented on the screen relative to your movement, not to how you are pointing. So you can follow the track with confidence in a crosswind or current - it will be giving you the right ferry angle. Note that if you have preloaded a track, you don't need much map detail. Less is better or the screen gets cluttered. However, you should be able to see the islands. I am using the map TOPO US 2008. This is not a marine chart, but it shows more detail than your default maps. If that isn't enough, you need to buy different maps. Sometimes it has the island but no name for it. You can put waypoints on unnamed islands ahead of time - the names will show up on your map as you paddle. If the screen on your eTrex is too small to do all of this, and you have an after market dashboard mounted Garmin GPS in your car, you can try to get that to do the job (in a dry case of course). It can probably be set to "off road", and it can probably use the MapSource Trip and Waypoint Manager software that you use to download the track and the waypoint. OK, I admit I never tried this, but I certainly would if I needed something to work with for the next race. Some general opinions about using a GPS while kayaking: As Leon says (or meant to say), if you have a MAGNETIC compass, disable it. I don't think your model does. It probably has a compass page which just shows what direction you are traveling in by taking the difference between your last position a second ago and your position now, and displaying it graphically as though it were a compass. I don't think that's useful. I think if you want a compass on your boat you should have an actual compass.My device can show 1, 2, or 3 data fields on the map page. I usually set it up to show speed and trip odometer.In my opinion, the only two useful pages are the map and trip computer. Tracks page is useful to manage tracks (delete old ones, etc.), but not while paddling.I have given all these notes about Garmin - for all I know all these things are also possible with other brands but I've never tried.I haven't taken the time to look up the pages that your device can show, and whether you can disable them, etc., the way you can with mine. I'm sure you can experiment with it and extrapolate... Hope that helps, Lisa

You still definitely need to worry about shaft length. My Epic paddle is sized 205 - 215 cm and I set it at 210. Like with a regular paddle, the length depends on the width of the boat and the angle of your stroke. It seems like there are fashions in length - for a while everybody was going shorter and shorter then they started increasing it a little. With an adjustable paddle you can experiment and take videos to see if you are getting the paddle all the way in at the start of the stroke without bending forward to do it. I don't think I've ever seen a racer with a bent shaft - it adds weight and arguably you can get just as good ergonomics with a good stroke. Blades come in different sizes, and that's going to be a personal preference. I switched from mid-wing to small-mid-wing when I had some forearm problems, but maybe now that I've gotten my stroke a little better (and am a little stronger) I could move up, dunno. The difference is extremely small, and it seems like it takes hours of concentrated experimentation to feel it. The goal is to lock your paddle into the water so that it doesn't move back during the stroke. If you can do that with a small paddle, a bigger paddle will actually slow you down (extra weight and windage, etc.) I wouldn't get a paddle for beginners, if there is such a thing - I would get the real thing and let it inform your stroke. I don't think there are any rough water differences. Wing paddles are quite supportive during the stroke and that's mostly what you use for balance in rough water. If you are worried about breaking the paddle, that would make you get something other than full carbon, I guess, but I like my paddle light. The Epic paddles come with different stiffness of shafts - you want the more forgiving of the two (the burgundy-colored one). The stiffer one is for sprinting. Which of the wing paddles that Leon listed are better for you? You just have to try them out. Borrow if you can for some time. But I found that my stroke kept changing well after I bought the paddle, and probably it is changing to get the most out of that particular paddle. Bottom line, I think they are all good :-) Lisa

Wow, nice shots, David. Here are mine, such as they are. With some of Leon's mixed in. -Lisa

Forgot to say I'd be willing to go Sunday, too.

I'd like to go on Saturday after the Solstice paddle, if anyone else does (and, of course, if Christopher does). The T-storms are forecast for 2:00 PM, which makes them more of an issue for the Solstice paddle than the moonlight paddle - the overall possibility for Saturday afternoon is 57%. The overall probability for Gloucester evening is given at 11%, and 6% for overnight. (Dunno what hours are denoted by "evening" and "overnight".) -Lisa

35 mm. film canisters are great for this sort of thing. I'm glad I stockpiled them from when one could actually buy film (!) -Lisa

That's a good one. Interesting to note how much it changes throughout one day, and how much warmer it was on May 23 than it is now. Hmm... Not for long, I hope! Measured 55 deg. (again) in open water off of Singing Beach and near the Miseries yesterday, late morning and late lunchtime, respectively. Lisa

55 deg. yesterday in Salem Sound (about midway between Misery and Eagle Islands).

49 deg. measured in open water off of Singing Beach Manchester MA last Friday...

Hi, Chris, I'm sure we could try this, depending on how late in the day you want to go... Next week is problematic, but maybe after that sometime. Once the summer season comes for real I do much more of my paddling in the ocean, but there are still times when it isn't possible and I make up with a river workout. Lisa underscore Huntington at the Yahoo place will do it. Hope you guys have a good time on Sunday. I feel like it's having guests on "my" river :-) Lisa

Hi, guys, Can't go Sunday, but I go from Bedford to the North Bridge 2 or 3 times a week, and there is no problem with flooding or anything else. Bedford is an excellent launch. Remember that river temperatures are not far off air temperatures - it's probably warmer than you think. Yes, Bedford is on the East side of the river, the other side is Carlisle.

Speaking of finding your way, the Gould barn is at 1 Howlett St, Topsfield, MA.

Hi, Bob, I think the separate groups are a great idea - much more efficient and we don't end up wasting so much time passing things around. I guess my post sounds like I'm complaining about bringing stuff - not so at all :-). We could, if we wanted to, set up a gear table during lunch break with a person there to answer questions - might not be necessary though. Lisa

So just to call it out, sounds like each leader needs to bring drysuit, wetsuit, sprayskirt, paddle, pump, paddle float, compass/chart or whatever? Participants last year were mostly interested in what to wear for summer paddling, but telling them about cold weather clothing is a good way to hammer in the idea that cold water is important and dangerous. I was planning (weather permitting) to wear my summer paddling clothing, hat and all. Not very fashionable, but it does make it simpler to answer the questions. -Lisa

(I fixed the link in the above) I do think the hull should be as smooth as possible, with or without the wax. -Lisa

This topic has some good info - I don't have anything to add to what I said then but maybe others do. A handheld GPS being used in "off road" mode just points you in the right direction. Maps help a lot, of course, but it still won't give you turn by turn directions like the car's GPS does. Usually I'm using it in familiar territory, or have mapped out the waypoints beforehand, so I will pick a waypoint that takes me around the island first. Or else you can set up a "route", which is a list of waypoints and traverse them one at a time. So on the rare occasions that I use the GPS to find my way around, I'm usually following a simple pointer rather than trying to see the map as I paddle. A typical scenario, for example, would be to do a "find" on a waypoint that is "home" (where your car is). Then a quick look at the resulting line on the map helps you decide to go to the right of that island that's in the way. Then you can either paddle a little to the right of the line, or you can put in a new waypoint on the right-hand edge of the island. You might get away with keeping the right-hand edge of the island on the map centered at the top of the screen, but the pointer is easier to see. That simple scenario shows why you still need either local knowledge or a chart. You still need to decide which side of the island to go to, and there might be considerations other than which is the shorter route. Some text-only GPS's have a very rudimentary pointer, but the degrees of resolution can be too low to be useful. So, yes, I agree, text-only not of much use. -Lisa

I agree with the others: DSC w/GPS good,GPS without computer connection marginal (as a GPS)Because you specifically mentioned the compass, I did want to add that if the compass is part of the draw you might want to check whether it is a real compass. Many GPS "compasses" work by comparing where you are now with where you were a few seconds ago to determine the direction (so you only get a reading while you are moving). Some, on the other hand, have integral magnetic compasses. While on land, the magnetic compass is useful. While paddling, the magnetic compass is a drawback because it defeats the GPS's ability to keep you on a good ferry angle during a "navigate to waypoint". Sometimes you can disable the magnetic compass above a certain speed (say, 1 mph), giving you the best of both worlds. However, sending the GPS signal with the distress call, that's good. -Lisa

I could, but it's a bit of a drive. And let's see if anyone has a longer boat (the Walden is 10').

By the way, Beth, how long is your wing paddle? Shorter paddle gives you higher cadence...

Hi, Beth, You must be doing it right! I remember when I first started to "get it". I did what I thought was the right thing for, oh, maybe a minute or so, then said to myself "You're kidding, right? I'm going to do that for 3-1/2 hrs in a race?" Then I settled down to the task. In my local river, working alone, I picked a rate I could maintain (with great concentration on technique) for 10 minutes. Then I allowed myself to revert to my old stroke to finish the workout. Next time, I did it for 10 minutes, rest for 5, then 10 more minutes. And so forth. It didn't take that long to build it up. Still, if I'm paddling casually with other people (not working out or racing), I fall into a more casual stroke. It feels "funny" otherwise. Like starting a car in 4th gear. The speed and technique of wing and euro paddle are pretty close, especially if you aren't racing (the wing begins to help more at higher speeds). But the wing can be a reminder to polish your technique, so it might feel more difficult. A GP is a whole different thing. I think the cadence is slower, and the stroke is longer with lower arms (right, GP people?). I think that a GP slips more in the water and is therefore kinder to the joints. The wing paddle, used correctly, grabs the water more aggressively, and that can take some getting used to. One adjustment I made early in using the wing was to buy a small mid wing rather than a regular mid wing. What part of you gets sore? Arms or torso? Using correct technique, the wing allows you to get lots of propulsion from your core. If you are rotating better with the wing for some reason, you will feel it in your torso. (Maybe you'll feel it anyway because the big push comes all at once, at the beginning of the stroke.) But you also have to use your arms to lift and position the paddle. If you do that differently than you're used to, you will feel it in your arms. Unfortunately, if it's your arms, you will feel it even if you are going slowly, I think, 'till the new muscles kick in. When you go on your all day/multi-day trips, will they be with other people? Won't that constrain the speed anyway? You want to know if you should take the wing on trips. So to that end: The difference between wing and GP is pretty big, I think. (I don't use a GP, so I'll probably get gonged if I'm way off. - please be gentle!) If you want to become comfortable with both, you will need to do as much exercise with the wing as you do with the GP. If you think you can do that on your trips, go for it, bring them both and switch off. If combining kayak touring and do-it-yourself stroke workshop isn't for you, then try to do the wing workouts separately. You might want to avoid a situation where you are stuck in high water wishing you were using the "other" paddle... I'd like to make one other unrelated point. No matter what paddle you are using, there is a speed at which you are "comfortable". When conditions get rough, it's hard to paddle below that speed, wing or no wing. I'd like to posit the case that it's important to learn to paddle below your comfortable speed in all conditions, against the certainty that some day you will need that skill - somebody else is sick or tired or whatever. Anyway, those are my very non-technical opinions on the subject - OK, guesses. :-) Hope it helps! -Lisa

Earl Baldwin. -Lisa (who never throws anything away) Great writeup, Rob! Glad you made it back OK. As they say, 1 knot is much, much better than no knots at all. (Or, of course, negative knots.) I wanted to add that while it may be true that you burn more energy per minute going downwind, it is in no way true that you burn more energy per mile.

I can come to the Barn and bring (for something completely different) my QCC. Will be willing to perform grunt labor as needed. Does anyone have (or could borrow) a basic rec boat to bring for comparison? Mine didn't work so well last year because it has rigging and a rear bulkhead. People kept wanting to buy one :-) A rec boat that is more mainstream would be good to demonstrate what not to paddle in the sea. Some of the people we had last year were dismayed to hear us say that they should get a 15-16' kayak and so were drawn to my little Kestrel. I just searched the web for a picture of Cleopatra's Needle, but with no real success. I was thinking that we could get a bulkhead-less rec boat and tape a big blow up of the picture on it with the word "NO!" or something like that. -Lisa

I think the implication is that your arms move further than your torso anyway. You lock your arms to use your torso, right? So you use your arms in the very very beginning for a tiny bit until you have a good grip, then you lock them and add in all your torso motion, maybe a little extra with the arms after that (if you haven't reached the exit point yet), then you exit and wind up for the other side. In other words, if you are going to add any arm movement to your torso movement, make sure some of it is in the beginning when the paddle isn't efficiently placed yet to override the braking. You use the torso during the most powerful part of the stroke, which is in the very beginning, but not so far in the beginning that the paddle isn't completely wet. It's all theoretical, of course. This is the first time I saw that thing about the torso pause, and I like it better than what I was trying to do before. Going to give it a try as soon as the river is navigable... Lisa

Pretty much, yes. But the only part of the stroke that is "pausing" is the tension on the torso. The arms can start the stroke for that fraction of a second to allow the boat to move past the paddle a tiny bit. Definitely hard to see, if the only difference is in whether the paddler's core muscles are tensed up or not. Watching the arm, you would see only a little slowing down of the backwards motion, but it would still be going very fast downwards. Not sure on this count. Seems like there should be some braking motion, even if somewhat reduced by the angle. They do say that the first part of the stroke, down near your toes, is the most powerful. That implies to me that the angle isn't as disadvantageous as you might think. (Also, that's why your arms should be quite straight when planting the paddle - to keep it as vertical as possible). It's an interesting point, however, that maybe the rounded back of a wing paddle can reduce the braking motion if you do pause your arms as well as torso. Hmmm.... Um, well yes, mostly. If the boat and yourself are moving forward, then your paddle will seem to move backwards a little relative to the boat and yourself, right? I mean, if it's really in ice :-) So your hand has to keep moving it back a little. I think the point is to let it go a little backwards but not use your tummy muscles to really ram it back until it's all the way in there. Which is pretty much what you said, so I'm agreeing.

The significant paragraph is: The pause is during the plant, not before or after. The new point here (to me) is that you keep your arms moving to avoid braking, but you don't start to use up the powerful but precious few inches that you can get out of your torso until you have full engagement of the paddle. So I'm mostly in agreement with you. I don't think it's just a psychological thing, it's mechanical. But I do agree that it's subtle, that the pause in torso rotation is very short, and that you "wait to apply power until paddle is planted".