Low-probability/High-consequence Wet Exits

[kate]

I have a Seals sprayskirt with the little side loops. Last night I tried pulling off the sprayskirt using the loops, wearing my lightweight paddling gloves. I was unable to take hold of them with the gloves on. I could grab them with bare fingers, but only certain ones released the skirt, due to the shape of the coaming. I would not want to count on this as a means of removing the skirt, esp. under duress.

I've had several skirts which could not be removed by pulling back on the grab loop, because the coaming was deep and sharp-edged and the skirt wrapped under it. The only way is to pull forward first, then up. And it does take some effort.

Finally, I have both a Brooks and a Reed tuiliq. Both have grab loops, although the Brooks is basically two giant knotted bungees. (someone back in this thread said otherwise.) The Reed with the actual loop is much harder to pull than the Brooks.

And, thanks for this thread. I tried last night to take hold of a chunk of sprayskirt next to my hip and pull it off. Unable to do so. I also tried raising a knee and pushing down with the foot to pop the skirt. No go. The Seals skirt wraps deeply under that coaming. Good to know.

Kate

[kate]

Just one more note - I'm such a blabbermouth!

Back when I first started kayaking, whitewater, there was a fellow who had just gotten a new boat and gear. So enthusiastic was he to get on the water that he decided to go out by himself and try rolling. He flipped over, couldn't roll, and when he went to wet exit, there was no grab loop. It was tucked inside - he didn't know it should be otherwise. He drowned.

I have never forgotten this.

[leong]

Kate,

The shock of seeing a person panic in front of me after a failed roll compelled me to start this thread. I was so grateful that I was close enough to perform an Eskimo bow rescue. We laughed it off later, but the panicked look on my friend’s face haunted me as I drove home that day.

I’m beginning to think that the safety strap on the SnapDragon sprayskirt is about as good as it gets. Pulling the strap to one side or the other side easily releases my sprayskirt …and if the strap should break off the sprayskirt on one side there is always the other side to use.

The SkirtworkS sprayskirt that Bill Voss mentioned is perhaps just as good a solution.

In reality, the short rope I added between the SnapDragon safety strap and the grab loop serves one main purpose; i.e. it becomes almost impossible to install the sprayskirt without noticing when the grab loop is tucked under.

Regarding the Seals sprayskirt with the little side loops: Perhaps you (and Gene) could install a webbing strap across the top of the sprayskirt, with each end attached to a side loop (one on each side). It’s a lot easier to grab onto a strap than it is to grab a side loop, especially when wearing gloves or having frigid hands.

Actually, when I wet exit I find it a lot faster and easier to release the sprayskirt using the strap than having to pull the grab loop forward and up.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

-Leon

[EEL]

Actually, when I wet exit I find it a lot faster and easier to release the sprayskirt using the strap than having to pull the grab loop forward and up.

The need to push the grab loop forward and then up is not a natural movement in the heat of the moment which can be a problem. Especially if someone is accustomed to poly boats.

It can also be a problem for short persons in a boat with a long keyhole rim.

I once saw a WW experienced person at the end of their first sea kayak paddle with a borrowed boat elect to do a few rolls at the end which they managed to do without too much trouble. When they landed, they were unable to get the spraydeck off until someone helped them. Lots of sobering stories around about this seemingly easy task being anything but.

Ed Lawson

Edited August 11, 2014 by EEL

[NateHanson]

I've got an IR skirt with the "implosion strap" or whatever that webbing across the lap should be called, and it has given me a lot more trouble than assistance. Always getting tangled during rescues, scrambles, etc.

For those looking for a way to keep the grab loop accessible, Seals has a great, low-profile solution on their Rental skirt. It has those little tabs on the side of the skirt, (referred to above). They run a piece of bungie through the grab-loop, and through loops on either side, near the front of the skirt. This makes it impossible to put the skirt on with the grab loop under the deck.

[leong]

Nate,

I guess you mean this IR Shockwave Sprayskirt. I now recall seeing the safety strap getting caught while someone was climbing over the pointy stern during a rescue. Admittedly, that can happen with any such safety strap across the lap. So that’s a negative of the safety strap. On the positive side is that the strap makes for easy sprayskirt removal for wet exiting. The strap is also a convenient place to hold charts, water bottles, etc. I noticed that on this model it looks like the grab loop on this sprayskirt is sewn back so it can’t be tucked under.

I found the Seals Rental Sprayskirt, but I couldn’t find a Seals neoprene sprayskirt with the same grab handle positioner. Seals put the positioner on the rental model for obvious reasons.

Personally, I’m willing to put up with the occasional tangle of the safety strap because of the added safety of easier sprayskirt removable.

Nevertheless you make some good points.

-Leon

[Inverseyourself]

I have experienced the panic induced by a non-removable sprayskirt during a pool session. Since then I practice wet exiting with the loop tucked inside and out, with gloves and without. I only have one boat and use the same sprayskirt but whenever I get a new boat or new sprayskirt I will practice with the new combination. Different water temperatures may also affect the ease with which you can remove the skirt, either due to cold-induced clumsiness or cold-induced increase in grip of the sprayskirt on the coaming. Practicing with all these variables with eyes closed also helps.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Inverseyourself

[NateHanson]

Nate,

I guess you mean this IR Shockwave Sprayskirt. . . .

I noticed that on this model it looks like the grab loop on this sprayskirt is sewn back so it can’t be tucked under.

Yes, that's the one. The loop isn't sewn back onto the fabric of the skirt - that's just the way things line up in that photo. (I'd be wary of any grabloop that's sewed through the neoprene in the middle of the deck fabric. I suspect that would tear out fairly quickly. That's why grabloops are generally secured to the bungy or rand instead.) The grabloop has stiff tubing over it to improve the grab-ability. Not a bad skirt. Doesn't fit my narrow sea kayak coamings so great, and I don't like the strap, as mentioned, but it's held up fairly well for me. Fits my whitewater boat better.

I'm now using a Seals Shocker 1.3, which is an excellent fit on my sea boats, and just generally seems like a really nicely made product.

[JulieC]

I have to agree with practice sessions and what Ed said about making sure that the skirt is put on correctly. I have had to adjust my skirt several times due to too the grab loop getting caught - good thing I have noticed before starting out on the water!

I do want to share one thing...

I just recently changed out my spray skirt from a snap dragon with a safety strap across the deck to one without. Why? I realized that I became dependent on the safety strap as my release instead of the grab loop. Not sure when that happened, but it may have happened during an early wet exit or maybe when I was a new paddler I got into my head that the safety strap was an alternate way of releasing the skirt (ATTN: new paddlers - this is NOT so, use your grab loop, the safety strap is a back up!), regardless, I don't know how bad habit started, but it has since been corrected. I do practice releasing from the side, although it will always be necessary to practice. All I am saying is that if you do have safety features, make sure that they are back up and they do not become your go to releases like what I did... And like every one is saying... practice.

[leong]

I do want to share one thing...

I just recently changed out my spray skirt from a snap dragon with a safety strap across the deck to one without. Why? I realized that I became dependent on the safety strap as my release instead of the grab loop. Not sure when that happened, but it may have happened during an early wet exit or maybe when I was a new paddler I got into my head that the safety strap was an alternate way of releasing the skirt (ATTN: new paddlers - this is NOT so, use your grab loop, the safety strap is a back up!), regardless, I don't know how bad habit started, but it has since been corrected. I do practice releasing from the side, although it will always be necessary to practice. All I am saying is that if you do have safety features, make sure that they are back up and they do not become your go to releases like what I did... And like every one is saying... practice.

Julie,

I see your point. However, if you have a safety strap it’s probably a good idea to occasionally practice using it for a sprayskirt release as well as the front grab loop. That’s so you get used to using the strap when you have to in a combat situation. As I said in the first post “You may forget to reach for the safety strap if you can’t locate the grab loop.” After the day of the failed roll we had an email conversation about it. Here’s the verbatim conversation between the person (say it’s Alex) who failed the roll and myself:

Leon: “I’m not exactly sure about that roll with the hidden grab-loop. Did you notice it before or after you reached out for help? So glad I was nearby. Scary stuff!”

Alex: “I noticed the grab loop when I couldn't grab it. I think the combination of cold and blowing out through the nose got me panicking. I'm not usually a panicker, so it's a little weird.”

Note Alex’s sprayskirt had a safety strap.

So, as you can see, it’s probably a good idea to get used to using your safety strap for a wet exit.

Respectfully,

-Leon

[JulieC]

Leon-

I see we are in agreement 100%, especially when in a situation such as yours or Alex's. Practice is and forethought are necessary, as are these discussions. Thanks for bringing it to the table.

The point I was hoping to make, was more to the newer readers of this forum - those new to paddling, who may be wondering about the safety strap you were discussing above. For me, as I stated, it became the easy way out of a wet exit and I stopped using the grab loop. I am being honest here about a bad habit, because I don't want others to get into the same bad habits as they learn... the safety strap is just what you are talking about - a safety strap in a situation if you can't get to your grab loop or there is a problem. It is not designed for regular use, it has weaker attachment points and will wear out quicker if used on a more frequent/daily basis - then what if needed in a true emergency or if someone becomes panicky as you described? All I am saying is I was mistaken as a new paddler thinking it was an alternate exit and used it in place of the grab loop ...

So in the situation you describe, yes, you need to know what safety features are available on your skirt... practice both methods... be safe and be ready for all situations.

Ok, I am off to go practice today :-)

Julie

[Katherine]

Okay, be kind to me all... I am positng in the hope that others can learn from my experience.

A few weeks ago I was with a coach and another coaches, we wanted to work on entering and exiting eddies and work with moving water. We went to someplace on the South Shore (Cohasset? Hull? With the bridge that leads to Little Harbor. I imagine some of you know the spot.

We got there late, damn traffic. The Coach asked if we were all okay with wet exits and issued a caution about the possibility of the current sweeping one to the back deck making exiting difficult. We didn't have the luxury of playing in the water from slack until we were no longer comfortable and, in my opinion, the water was moving at a pretty good clip.

All was good... for a bit... We entered and exited the eddies and entered and exited the eddies.., The, the last time (it was supposed to be the last time) we were to enter the eddy and paddle down the bumpy water to where it fanned out and became calm once again. I don't know how far that distance was ~ it didn't look to far from the sides and felt like forever when I was on it.

So I entered the eddy fine, began paddling down and the somehow went over. I leaned forward to pop my skirt and then tried to exit. I couldn't. I panicked, lost my paddle and thought "Is this how I am going to die?" Answered myself with a rounding "No" ND then thought "Air, I need air.". I hand scalped to the surface grabbed a gulp of air and water before I was under again. I did this 3 times. My thought was I only had to hang on until I hit the calmer water or I was rescued.

I was rescued and the coach, after I had regained my composure very gently asked how my spray skirt had come off. So I had popped it but the mystery was why didn't I come out of my boat?

The following weekend I went out with two friend and I practiced wet exiting, I still had a little panic with the first one. What I noticed was that I forgot to run my hands/fingers under the combing. I believe that is what happened the previous weekend. Some of you may know I am in a new-to-me boat with an ocean cockpit. And with this boat I am in my first neoprene skirt.

Like Julie, I had developed a bad habit. My bad habit was with a nylon spray skirt I didn't need to run my hands around the combing, so I didn't. And when I needed to I forgot.

On a side note... My birthday is Wednesday and I am having a part at my house, some how I feel like having an extra special celebration. If you know where I live just come over. If you don't know where I live PM me and I'll give you the address.

[leong]

Wow, Katherine. Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m glad that you’re okay. I think this phrase fits well here:

There but for the grace of God, go all of us kayakers.

I have a few questions:

Did you try a roll or were you too panicky? It sounds like you popped only the front part of your spray skirt and the remainder stayed on tight for a while, right? Did your paddle float away? How were you rescued … Eskimo bow rescue, Hand of God, other?

Happy birthday.

-Leon

Edited August 18, 2014 by leong

[EEL]

Katherine:

Some random thoughts. First, ocean cockpits give great security and control at the cost of being not easy to wet exit from. Second, try practicing to "tumble out" forward as opposed to leaning back as leaning back makes things more difficult. Third, practice holding coaming alongside hips with both hands and pushing yourself out. With practice comes some level of ease if not confidence which helps keep the panic away. Certainly glad it all worked out.

Ed Lawson

[Katherine]

Good morning gentlemen,

Leon,

Thanks for your sensitivity.

What's a roll? (sigh) I don't have one of those. I've been meaning to pick one up... Sir Christopher has generously offered to spend all of his Sundays helping me with that skill.

Yes, from what I can make out that is what happened with my skirt.

I think my paddle was pulled from my grasp by the current - I should have had a tighter grip.

And it was a hand of God although since I was on my side the coach stabilized me and I sat up holding onto the combing until we got to flat water which happened very quickly.

Thanks for the birthday wishes!

Ed,

Yes, that is how I practice exiting. I'll be doing a lot more practicing! I believe I was pushed to the back deck by the current and lacked the were with all to pull myself forward although that had been d

iscussed during the beach briefing.

[Gcosloy]

Happy Birthday Katherine-I'm so glad you're still with us and thanks for sharing-that event you went through has to rank as one of the scariest. The rest of your sea kayaking career has got to be a piece of cake in comparison.

[Katherine]

Thanks Gene!

Leon & Ed: PS: In thinking about it I was not on my side when rescued, I definitely remember the whoosh of being lifted to the surface and my knees were tucked to my chest...

This was my first unexpected capsize. Yes, Ed, I did always tumble out of my Avocet, very easily, especially with a nylon skirt. One of my learning challenges is how to stay calm and remember to do what I know how to do when faced with the unexpected. Unfortunately for me a way I calm myself is to deep-breathe, which wasn't an option :-)

[prudenceb]

Wow, Katherine, that's a scary story! I'm glad (to put it mildly) that it all turned out all right!

This whole thread provides further motivation to work on a "skill" that we really don't think about after the first four times we do it. Wet exits can be anything but routine. I've had wipeouts in challenging circumstances, and know well how your brain can freeze at those times. I have a friend who first paddled years ago but after not being out on the water much since then has just picked it up again. Every time we go out, I "make her" do a wet exit and rescue. This is met by a (good-natured) whine on the lines of "do I have to do this?" But she always does, and your story will be another motivator/object lesson. Thank you for sharing with us.

pru

ps - Happy 39th birthday!

[BLConaway]

Yikes! Very scary situation--glad it turned out alright. I also dumped at Cohasset (sounds like that's where you were) while I was learning about currents, and I recall a moment of panic because I was on my back deck and definitely disoriented. I had to think in the midst of panic to "lean forward and pull on the loop." I had also not practiced a wet exit in awhile, so it was not automatic. Sounds like the conditions you were in were quite a bit wilder, so I can imagine how easy it was to become disoriented and panicked.

This is a GREAT thread--lots of good stuff to think about. One takeaway--spend time early in the season doing multiple wet exits and getting your spray skirt off in different ways. "Having" a wet exit is not enough and doesn't necessarily carry over in muscle memory from year to year.

[leong]

In case you haven’t noticed by now I’m a big fan of the safety strap on a sprayskirt. From Sea Kayaker, Entrapment and Exits it gives this example,

The turbulence of the surf zone can make it difficult to release your spray skirt. Ron, a paddler with solid intermediate skills, was attempting to land along one of Oregon’s coastal beaches where extensive surf zones are common. He had minimal surf experience and was capsized by a large wave that ripped the paddle from his hands and dislodged him from his foot and knee braces and seat. Pinned on the back deck by the force of the wave, he was unable to reach forward to pull the grab loop on his spray skirt. Ron remained pinned for some time.

Relative to a grab loop, you don’t have to reach as far forward to grab a safety strap and you don’t have to pull it forward. That’s very significant when you’re pinned on the back deck. Additionally, the force required to release a sprayskirt via a safety strap is a small fraction of what it is via a grab loop. That’s because the tension is maximum where the grab loop is attached and is near a minimum at the sides where the safety strap is attached.

The above link provides a lot of other good examples. In almost all of the examples a safety strap would have done the trick. But read the link. It discusses a lot of entrapment examples.

Oh, and by the way, I misspoke earlier in the thread when I said, “I now recall seeing the safety strap getting caught while someone was climbing over the pointy stern during a rescue.” I spoke to that person today. It was not the safety strap that got caught; it was the grab loop that got caught on the stern toggle.

So to each his own. But as long as sprayskirts with safety straps are available you can be sure that’s what I’ll use.

PS
I don’t think safety straps are available for ocean cockpit sprayskirts. Don’t know, but perhaps they’re easier to release than keyhole cockpit sprayskirts.

PPS

If you have a 100% bomb proof roll in all conditions than you don't have to worry about any of this. Does such a person exist?

[jmcotton]

Happy, happy birthday Katherine! I am SO glad you are here to enjoy it! I've seen you successfully practice your wet exit in your new boat ...Yea! Thanks for sharing your experience.

This thread has been great. It does raise all of our worst fears, getting stuck in our boat...out there in current. I ordered a neoprene spray skirt earlier this summer, my first neoprene skirt and after soaking it and leaving it on the cockpit to stretch it I went out with friends and a coach and tried a wet exit with our coach standing besides me. I could not get the skirt off after a number of attempts and she also could not get it off me and had to roll me up. The spray skirt was a snapdragon expedition model which is thick and not stretchy (and wasn't actually what I'd ordered!). I broke my left wrist this past January and I was used to holding my paddle in my right hand and pulling the easy to release nylon sprayskirt with my left - and had the bad habit of not really needing to lean forward and pull hard forward to get the skirt off. After reading all of this thread and talking with people and checking out what other people have for skirts, I bought a snapdragon glacier flirt model with a safety strap last Friday. I soaked it and put it on my cockpit for 24 hours and went out Sunday and successfully did a wet exit. Whew! Here's to many more practice wet exits. I can get it off pulling the loop, pulling the edge, and pulling the safety strap It's now my turn to go to Cohasset with our coach this Saturday to practice current work. Wish me luck!

Janice

Cohasset this Saturday for current work with our coach.

[billvoss]

PPS

If you have a 100% bomb proof roll in all conditions than you don't have to worry about any of this. Does such a person exist?

I'm not sure, but I think the last one was paddling alone, dislocated their shoulder during a failed brace, discovered they could not roll with a dislocated shoulder and drowned.

[Phil Allen]

The whitewater folks have a saying that we should take as our own "We're all in between swims"

best

Phil

[Lallen]

Also, to state what may be obvious, if you are challenging yourself and growing your skill set, "unanticipated water landings" are a predictable outcome. I have heard people say, I don't anticipate going for a swim because I only paddle in calm conditions. Sometimes there is also a perception that if you never come out of your boat, your skills must be rock solid. The truth is that most experienced paddlers comfortable in conditions are "advanced swimmers" by virtue of multiple capsizes. Even for those with a roll, I personally don't know very many advanced paddlers who haven't also earned the honorary distinction of "expert swimmer". :-)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Lorrie

[Inverseyourself]

We are all between wet exits : (