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Les, Excellent video! So, when do we go and find similar conditions!! Warren

Doug, Thank you for organizing these winter pool sessions. Yesterday was an amazing time!!!! Warren

Barry, Originally the plan was to camp during a weekend in December prior to Christmas. The days we chose were cold, windy and the wind direction would have made our camp site extra cold. So, the tip was cancelled. Rob and I are planning to attend the REI workshop on Winter Camping, January 10, 2013 at the Reading location. We hope to gather more ideas and hopefully use those ideas during a camping trip sometime prior to April. By the way, on this thread Jason pointed out a fuel product ( Primus Power Gas Fuel at KTP) that will work with my JetBoil. I am going to try this approach and see how well I do. Warren

Ed, From my perspective, you are absolutely correct that good team work solves many paddling problems. However, good team work can be very difficult to achieve. Also, a lot of our paddling skill training can, at times, work counter to good team work. That realization hit home for me this past season with two very clear “Ah Ha” moments. At the beginning of 2012, I wanted to focus on increasing my on-water speed. I bought a faster boat, improved my strength /endurance and attended classes on developing a better forward stroke. All good, or at least that is what I thought at the time. As a kayak camper, being able to stay together as a group is highly valued as a safety skill. My increased on-water speed, which can be a prized skill, was working counter to good team work. So in August I went back to class. I thought at the time that John Carmody probably does not have many students requesting how to paddle slower, but that knowledge was important to me. Come to find out, he and Todd Wright had spent some time solving that problem. The good news was that I got to keep my boat, maintain good form with full range torso rotation and I would now just not pull as strongly once I planted the blade in the water. It works like a charm for me! Later in the season, I wanted to improve my skill and confidence paddling a fully loaded kayak in high winds. Two successful trips were crafted. My body, boat and technique all came together and I experienced great joy. I very quickly started to develop a love of paddling in strong wind. Two weeks later I was paddling with a different group of paddlers and we experienced strong wind. At the time, I morphed into a person who was annoyingly happy. The team was not pleased. That was the first in the one two punch. As we paddled back to the launch site, I realized that my love for paddling in strong wind may alter my decision making on a future trip that might increase risk and decrease team safety. Would I no longer actively seek out the lee side of an island to give the team a much needed rest in strong wind situations? I concluded from these two “Ah Ha” moments that I value team performance over individual performance and will look more carefully at each new skill to determine whether or not it helps me achieve my goal of being a kayak camper with good team work skills. The good news is I have determined the team will highly value improving my cooking skills! Warren

John, Thank you for the info on how to anticipate a potential thunderstorm! I really do like the idea of checking the sky on a routine basis when it is possible to do so. Interestingly, the most challenging situation for me regarding the weather this past season happen at night when my ability to see the sky clearly was hampered by darkness. I checked my apps at 11:00PM and again at 3:00AM when all I could detect physically was the wind speed and direction. Clearly, that night the apps helped fill in the blanks. I guess it really is all about developing a "safety web" of systems and processes to help keep us all safe. Warren

Christopher, Yes, I would very much enjoy attending a workshop on risk assessment skills. I would like to believe we are all better off if we fine tune our skills in learning to avoid a disaster rather than focus all our energies learning how to put all the pieces back together. For me, I could perform risk assessments constantly while I paddle. Speaking for myself, putting the pieces back together is not very easy to simulate and practice often enough for me to be really good at it. Warren

Liz, I really like your statement, "Club trips do not start out in extreme or even particularly hazardous conditions". It seems to me some groups are not as attentive to changes that can occur AFTER the trip is initiated. For me the grand "Ah Ha" moment this past season was when I realizing that a weather forecast is good for less than 4 hours. A camping trip off the coast of Maine started out with fine weather, but all that changed even though the original forecast made no mention of the potential for changing conditions. I have always understood the rapid way in which a thunder and lightning storm can arrive, but this was very different. The wind speed and direction changed in a most dramatic manner. If I had not been "glued" to my weather apps, we would have lost our window of opportunity to safely evacuate. Although to the group the trip simply underwent a minor modification, but I knew better and welcomed the new knowledge. I now look at the weather in a whole new way. Warren

Peter, Thank you for the info concerning the maximum recommended size for a CAM trip. That explains a lot! My memory of a CAM trip with 11 paddlers was very similar to what you might encounter in herding cats. The very loose structure really fell apart when a rock garden came into view. More than half the group took off like hungry dogs chasing a meat wagon. It struck me at the time that there must be a better way to do this. Now I understand. Warren

Rob, I know you, more than most, put a lot of thought and effort into successful CAM model experiences. I will admit my past experiences with CAM have been inconsistent. Our Sebascodegan Island trips as well as the trip to Muscongus Bay and Jonesport were great and those were classic CAM trips. For me, some other trips have not been so great. Personally, I have much better success with CAM when the number of participants is four or less. It seems to me each member of a smaller group is more invested in the success of the trip. In some larger groups, I have observed other members having the tendency to be "followers" and rely on others to plan and protect them. I believe, however, the success of the CAM methodolgy is related not to the size of the group as much as how invested each member is to the success of the effort? If so, how do trip leaders successfully engage each member? The beach briefing may not be the best method. This coming year I want to experiment with trips of 6 to 8 paddlers using the CAM methodogy and see if it is possible to have each member fully engaged in all aspects of the trip. A successful CAM trip of 8 participants would prove to me the methodolgy is unrelated to group size. Warren

Cathy, I like setting goals. However, mine are very much a work in progress, but here goes..... 1. Paddle more with you, Pru and Rob. (Highest priority!) 2. Eat more banana nut bread! (Yummy!) 3. Complete two kayak camping expeditions of five days or longer. (Hopefully one in Canada!) 4. Have more fun. (Pru made me say that!) 5. Locate one or two NSPN kayak camping beginners and mentor them. (Pru may have found them!) 6. Participate in structured learning to become a better trip planner. (Not sure where to find this!) 7. Attend classes to become a better paddler. (Much needed!) Warren Who is next??

John, I am pleased to hear that you carefully observe the sea state. I am also pleased to hear another key core competency. The ability to understand weather or more specifically to understand changing weather patterns and their affect on the sea state. It is said that we must always observe "future waters" in an effort to make adjustment in our course. I like to think we must constantly look up at the sky as well to observe "future weather" and adjust our course. John, you also touched upon what many would say is our greatest risk. It is who we choose to paddle with on each trip. I, for one, do not wish to paddle solo. Therefore, I need to be able to observe the current state of my fellow paddlers as well as I observe the sea state. Some days that is not an easy task especially if they are hesitant to share their thoughts and concerns. Interestingly, for me it is the beginner/novice paddler that communicates the clearest if you are ready to receive the messages. Perhaps, that is another trip leader core competency. The ability to receive and understand a message of concern. Warren

John, Now I am really curious! Being that you are an analytical person, how much of your decision to paddle is based on prior experience. The gut reaction versus the careful analysis of the variables. This past season I purposely paddled in waters that were new to me in an effort to avoid being influenced by prior experience. It forced me to "learn to observe" versus "I know what will happen here". I suspect you do the same. Therefore, a key core competency for any trip leader might be a keen ability to observe the sea state. Would you agree? Warren

Peter, I really enjoyed reading about your understanding of the risks associated with moving water during an ebb versus a flood. We can all apply that knowledge to the Western Rivers in Maine as well as our practice sessions under the Seabrook bridge. It does touch upon a larger topic of learning to understand the sea state in which we plan to paddle and how we determine risks. Brian, I very much enjoyed reading your guidance concerning the ratio of leaders/guides to participants. Sometimes it seems as though a trip is planned and we all hope to sort things out on the water based upon who participates in the paddle. You both did touch upon a much larger topic of what are the core competencies of someone who plans and executes safe trips. It seems to me, we spend a great deal of time learning how to pick up the pieces after disaster strikes. However, I would like to believe that with solid trip planning and safe on water execution, we can avoid most disasters. Perhaps the key is in acquiring the core competencies without having to learn them the hard way. I would greatly value an understanding of the core competencies we, as a community of paddlers, value in trip leaders who plan and execute safe trips. Warren

Phil, Yes, the radar view is very important to me. I use two apps: My Radar Pro, Weather Radar. Hi-Def Radar. Although they look similar, I really like the Area Forcast Discussions issued by the regional NWS offices which is part of the Hi-Def Radar app. By the way, if you paddle the Canadian waters, which I know you do, you have several great apps available. Warren

Gary, Like yourself, I tend to enjoy kayak camping particularly if the trip involves new areas where no member of the group has local knowledge. Although I very much enjoy using the compass and chart, I do enjoy confirming my islands to visit with a check of my GPS. I do have detailed nautical charts for eastern US and Canada on my GPS as well as desk top software that allows me to upload the waypoints thereby eliminating any keying errors. I also find it to be helpful in very thick fog particularly when the crossing involves moving water. Earlier this year we were crossing New Meadows River during a flow tide and a check of the GPS was helpful to confirm our ferry angle calculations. But even more valuable to me has been my i-Phone (ATT coverage) with apps. This year I frequently discovered the weather forecast was changing within 4 hours. In some cases a radical change. Although the VHF radio that I carry is helpful, I tend to be a visual learner and the apps give me great information to make intellegent decisions during rapidly changing weather patterns. During two trips the weather changed to a small craft advisory and well as to gale warnings. The information at my finger tips is very complete. It also gives me detailed information from tidal and current flow stations. Warren

Cathy, I very much enjoyed reading your thoughtful observations on what a trip initiator is looking for from a trip participant. I like how your experience has allowed you to focus on at least three characteristics you would like to see in any trip participant. 1. Be an asset to the team. 2. Use common sense. 3. Make good decisions. During this past year I had the privilege to join in on, as well as initiate, trips with paddlers who routinely exhibit those characteristics. However, it has not always been that way. We grew in our skills by learning from each other. While this evolution was occurring, I tried to determine what specific actions an inexperienced paddler would need to take to help themselves gain the critically important skills of good judgment and common sense. I concluded that some inexperienced paddlers, such as me, loose our ability to make good decisions based on common sense when we experience the unexpected. The goal should then be to minimize the unexpected. Remember what many of us as beginners are taught. Always wear a PFD, learn to perform a wet exit, and grow in our knowledge of assisted rescues and solo rescues. These are all valuable and necessary skills for anyone paddling on the ocean. I learned these skills and began “tagging along” on CAM trips. I quickly learned that more skills were needed in order to stay out of the “Terror Zone”. Even though I was making a diligent effort to gain more skills and to be an asset, when to use those new skills was somewhat elusive. In other words, good judgment was a higher level skill that seemed to elude me at the time. For me, the problem was the “tagging along” behavior. I was relying upon experienced trip initiators to do the thinking necessary to keep the group safe. They all did a great job, but I felt when I relied upon them I would not gain the skills to make the good decisions on future trips. Luckily for me, I was able to gain access to NSPN members who possessed the mentoring skills to diagnose the problem. From those conversations I realized I needed to focus on three actions I would take prior to each trip. 1. Study the marine forecast for the trip location. 2. Study and bring with me a detailed nautical chart. 3. Begin understanding how the marine forecast and topography would affect the sea state. I vividly remember navigating through Goose Rock Passage and the Little Sheepscot River with ease due using this methodology in my preparation prior to that trip. I concluded that many less experienced paddlers gain a great deal of confidence in their abilities when they encounter the sea state they expected to see. They mentally prepare themselves and go through a mental check off list of the actions that might be needed. This process tends to communicate a mental state of good common sense and sound judgment. Perhaps, this attempt at adding my “two cents” might provide some insight into how we could help guide a beginner who seems to have skills but in struggling to put all the pieces together. Warren

" I've come across some fantastic used boats within my price range in Poly, Glass, and even Kevlar. These boats meet my volume requirements, (I'm 6', 180-185, 35" waist, size 12 foot and the boat will be used primarily for day/weekend trips) and they're boats that I could 'grow into' as my skills progress." M, Perhaps it goes without saying that you do need to paddle each boat you are considering. Your foot size (12) is an important consideration. A fantastic boat needs to fit you like a good pair of shoes. We are similar in our size (13 feet) and some boats would not accommodate my feet. Warren

Gene, It might be helpful if I add a couple comments concerning your experience paddling in strong wind conditions. You are correct that wind speed and/or gusts in access of 25 mph on beam does present a problem. Although I have paddled in those conditions, I did not experience any instability with my kayak (NDK Explorer). I did, however, find it was impossible for me to stay on course. That was probably more a characteristic of my level of strength and endurance. The kayak would drift down wind. Not a lot, but enough that I would have found the process dangerous if I had been paddling close to rocks. It can be a very useful activity to experience and I am now aware of how my body interacts with my kayak in those conditions. Warren

Hey Paul, My very first time paddling a kayak was on the Joppa Flats. We launched from the Newburyport tip of Plum Island. It was a great day! Is that where you launch, since it seems to have plenty of parking? Warren

Hey Barry, Thank you for the info on the JetBoil! During a recent kayak camping trip, I was having my "Maxwell House" moment at 6:00AM and the temps were ~32 degrees. The JetBoil was acting very different. Low key, like me, and I was not sure what the problem was due to. Now I know! The canisters will be in my sleeping bag on all winter trips! On a separate topic, I love Ibex wool clothing for layering under the dry suit as well as gloves and hats. I also love Arc'teryx clothing for synthetic layers over the wool, outer layers made with Gore Tex, as well as gloves and hats. I have never been uncomfortable in cold weather with this combination, but I hope to further test these products with December kayak trips. Yes, Peter, the approach you recommend is very helpful. John Carmody clued me in last year and it was among his best coaching! Warren

Rob, Great pictures! That trip with just the right balance of safety, comfort and fun. The December trips will once again challenge us to keep the balance, but I know we will succeed. I see at least two new MITA islands in our future before the 2012 season is over! Warren

More great ideas! Thank you! Suz, I am definitely going to try the Nalgene bottle filled with hot water in the sleeping bag. It seems my feet do get cold at night, but double wool socks help. Spider, you are so right about the rating on the sleeping bag. My 15 degree bag did not keep my feet warm in 35 degree weather. Hopefully the socks and the bottle filled with hot water will help and the temperature drops in December. Suz, you taught me about the value of managing cold hands effectively on the water and during lunch breaks when paddling in cold weather. I have four different pairs of paddlers gloves and three different pairs of land gloves. One pair of the land gloves should go inside the dry suit to stay warm and to be available during lunch. The paddlers gloves are made available via the day hatch so you do not need to put a wet pair back on your hands after lunch. That was my take away from our discussions. Sound AOK? Warren

More great ideas! Thank you! Jason, thank you for the idea to try a four season fuel for my JetBoil. Kate, someday soon I plan to test a different stove and I very much like the uncomplicated design you have engineered. As Rob has noted above, we have worked to create a learning laboratory for ourselves. Our do-it-yourself style of learning allows us to tailor the consumption of knowledge to fit our styles while always working to stay (using Lorrie's words) out of the "Terror Zone". It feels right. Warren

Pru, As always a wonderful report! Although the weekend was full of memorable moments, without a doubt the best moment for me was when Rob described the reason why he and Cathy (Rob's wife, aka - Pinkpaddler) decided to join the NSPN community. It was after they read one of your trip reports from last season which chronicled one of our adventures. Now, after reading this trip report, I hope our latest adventure will inspire others to come with us next season and enjoy camping along the coast of Maine. Warren

Wow! What great ideas! Rob, we can clearly benefit from an open discussion on all aspects of cold weather paddling and camping. I always found it puzzling that we invest so much time and money in this sport and many paddlers only paddle 6 months or less each year. Suz mentioned to me that perhaps I should continue to get out on the water until I experience temps below 20 degress and wind in excess of 20 kts. With that guideline in mind, I realized I did not have all the skills needed to meet that goal while maintaining both safety and comfort. So, these Nov/Dec camping trips will test our skills and problem solving abilities. Peter, I certainly depend on my JetBoil and I have not tested its operation in less than 20 degree weather. Hopefully, I will before the year is over. It makes me think about how often I have tested my tow rope and yet my stove could be an even greater piece of safety equipment. Bob, like many of us I participated in wilderness first aid training and my focus has been more on treating blisters. But with the introduction of ice, I will need to refresh my memory on how to treat a twisted ankle. Although I do like the feeling of solitude you gain from paddling and camping at this time of year, I do hope more paddlers will seek the knowledge they need to paddle at least 10 months per year. Warren