tyson

Here on Google Maps. There is a small parking spot on the SW side of the bridge also.

The Epic! Definitely the Epic.

Ummm... context? There have been a whole LOT of "you"s on this thread. Cheers! Ty

...but it doesn't prevent multiple quotes, nor does it prevent nested quotes. Hasn't everyone upgraded to Firefox or Chrome by now anyway? ;-) It is certainly possible to work around by using common email style indicators for context instead of mark-up tags. ...and it is unusual to have so many quote clips. Ty

On my screen, it says "unpaid" under your name on the left. ...and I can't go Sunday.

All 3 CAM sessions - Time very well invested!3 Star training - Excellent!RWS - Well worth the dents!Greenland Clinic - Worth every penny!Downeast Sea Kayaking Symposium - Wish I could have gone... I'm headed to Maine for a surf clinic next weekend. Though it is just self learning, training for the Blackburn Challenge has also significantly improved my paddling. ...and that was the purpose since I really can't claim to be competing in the Blackburn with so many folks like Leon so far ahead. Cheers! Ty

Do more paddling of course! And you will learn the most on the trips that result in threads that go on for at least 5 or6 pages and remain active for at least a week or so! As Paul said, try to keep out of the way and keep moving. With more experience, those conditions won't be a concern. Cheers! Ty

A bit of roll practice?

While I support having a reliable roll, I'd have a hard time supporting painting it in black and white. They didn't claim 8-10. 8 is the largest number I've seen in this thread. Cheers! Ty

Why is this true? It is my understanding that many (most?) white water groups won't let you play with them unless you have a reliable roll. Rolling is a primary skill for them. Ty

Cool! Thanks!

I'm not sure how it would work on a wet, round hull, but you may have been able to aggressively lean on Shari's kayak for stability. ...much like rafting up, just harder due to less to hang on to. Some will recommend alternatives such a scissors. Entanglement can be deadly and I suspect a non-trivial risk, so I recommend carrying something Ty

I agree! I have my trip there last year to prove it to me! The irony is that had Gene joined us for the SMSKN's July IOS trip this summer, he would have experienced it in L1 "conditions". Any pool with a half dozen kayaks in it probably has more lump and bump than we experienced that day. Is was actually glassy for most of the paddle out and nearly so for the return trip. Cheers! Ty

The "system" is restricting proper inclusion of context, so I'll have to use a different indication of context for some of this post: I never said that you never should have taken the trip. I have tried to point out that this is an L4 trip and one needs to consider that before heading out. It was a debate about this being a L3 vs. L4 trip that prompted this specific trip in the first place. My comments in the prior thread were the direct result of my own experience on an IOS trip where I got lucky because things could have been much worse. I have _tried_ to keep my comments to objective fact and forward looking statements. ...though I can't claim infallibility. Kidding or not, IMHO, this is a very fair response. I don't think I'd bring camping gear on an IOS trip. But Suz's comments does remind me that I have an emergency shelter that perhaps could be on some of my trips but I've been forgetting to pack this season. ---> The splendid abilities that some posters admittedly possess are not useful to ---> the discussion if they weren't actually on the paddle. They are relevant in the context of a forward looking discussion, which this thread unfortunately has not entirely been. When discussing what skills are possible or reasonable to develop so that one is better prepared for such conditions, such skills are quite relevant. I've lived a life time listening to people proclaim that things are impossible when I easily do them routinely. I also feel that it is counter productive to declare that anyone who wasn't on the paddle can't possibly have anything to say or contribute. One of the ways that I develop my skills is to consult with people who weren't on my trip. I ask them because they have greater skill and experience than I do. If I always felt that anyone who wasn't with me can't possibly know anything better than I do, I would miss out on a lot of great learning opportunities. You are absolutely correct! It is not my intent to create enemies. I joined NSPN because I WANT to paddle with you folks. I joined NSPN because I wanted to learn and become a better paddler. I have very much enjoyed the NSPN trips I've been on and I have learned a MOUNTAIN of knowledge and skill over the past year and a half. I am easily 3 times the paddler I was before my first NSPN paddle ("You lost Gene?!") because of the education that is available here. Please consider that maybe you are reading much more hostility into the thread than is actually intended. That is the intention. Have I been offensive? Do you feel that I have boasted? (those are real questions, not adversarial, rhetorical ones) ...and it is unreasonable to question subjective _estimates_ made by people in a difficult situation? Are you infallible at making these estimates? Questions were raised because there is objective _measurements_ available. There really are relationships between wind, wave height, wave period and wave shape that are dictated by the laws of physics. Those laws don't change from trip to trip. Now that appears to be the clearest lesson from this thread! I always most fondly remember experiences that pushed my limits without leaving permanent damage. ...I've been trying, but I fear that I'm not on your list. Ty

"You have posted more than the allowed number of quoted blocks of text" What is the point of this restriction? Cutting out non-context and responding in-line keeps context with comments and is completely consistent with generally accepted netiquette. I've seen that there is no restriction on long posts, there is no restriction on needlessly including an entire long post as "context", and there is no restriction on improperly formatting context.

In spite of what some may think, I don't see this as a witch hunt. therefore, I don't think it is important if they did this or not. The useful question is, has anyone reading this thread come to the realization that this sort of preparation is what's needed? That a forecast or conditions report that reads like this indicates some rather difficult paddling? Some people will be comfortable in these conditions. Some people will be in over their heads in these conditions. Some might be fine if they get some help and shepherding from a more skilled paddler. When I had a similar experience last year, I was lucky that everyone on the trip was up to the task. Though no one felt out of control, it really got my attention that with different companions or somewhat worse conditions, it could have been a disaster. Though I felt no stress or panic, I did get a glimpse of where stress and panic hide out waiting to pounce. Ty

Excellent exercise! That's why I strongly prefer kayaks with low rear decks. Windage is one of the reasons I prefer lower decks overall. ...and I'm learning forward finishing rolls.

I don't think that at all. There is a BIG difference between 3 foot (or even 8 foot) deep water swells with a 10-20 second period and 3-4 second wind driven chop that is anywhere above your head. I have been in conditions where I was relaxed, comfortable and having fun while some of our experienced NSPN paddlers sat on the side lines because it was beyond their comfort level. I have done a 'Shoals trip were conditions turned for the worse on the return leg. The objective data logs show that the conditions were a fair bit worse than this past Thursday. I have made a practice of noting my reaction to wave heights and then comparing that with buoy data, the height of people around me, the height of surfers and what the same waves look like when standing on firm ground. People who are in difficult conditions are often very poor witnesses to what happened. On the other hand, buoys don't tell the whole story (superposition of multiple wave sets) and they don't tell you what its like to be in those conditions. ...not until you have made a practice of objectively comparing the experience with the data. Ty

Is anyone who paddles a kayak to a remote island 7 miles off shore not masochistic? ...besides, a trip in conditions like that earns bragging rights. You can't brag if you keep it a secret.

Who is it that objects to others having the chance to _learn_ just how difficult kayaking can be when the buoys report 2.5-4 ft? People should know what to expect when the forecast or reported conditions are like that. _Learning_ from this report could literally save the life of someone reading this forum. If there is anyone on this forum who really believes that censorship if life saving information is a good idea, please speak up and I'll start censoring. Ty

I have no doubt about the spirit of the report. ...and I know that there is much to be _learned_ from it by many. _Learning_ is what NSPN claims to endorse. One of the _lessons_ is what it feels like when the waves approach and exceed eye height and the buoys say 2.5-4 ft. Keep in mind that eye height is around 2.5 ft. Had Leon been hit by a rogue 8 footer with a 3-4 second period, it would have been breaking and he would have been fully submerged under it. That is something that I have _learned_ by spending as much time as I can afford in rough water. I'm not sure what place censorship of objective, measured data that is directly related to this thread has on a forum for _learning_. Ty

The MagicSeaweed surf guide for Long Sands looks promising, as does the aerial imagery on Google Maps. It looks like the primary parking is at the small NE facing beach and the biggest beach is to the south facing SE? Where would you recommend parking and launching? I'm busy the next 2-5 weekends but I'd be interested in joining you there. Hmmm... I expect to be in ME with the kayak on Oct 2nd (not the worse way to spend a Saturday!), if there were good conditions for the 3rd, it might be possible to hit this on the return drive. Cheers! Ty

GOMOOS buoy/weather history: http://gomoos.org/gnd/ From that I extracted the afternoon data for this past Thursday and so that I could compare with what we experience, our trip last July. The column headers in the text form don't align with the columns of data so I inserted new headers. I left the originals so that any errors could be caught. BuoyData.txt