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Blaine, I'm going to try to make it. Bob

I plan on attending. Bob

I'm interested. Right now both dates work for me. Bob

Gene, Sunday is fine with me. Thanks for calling it. Bob

Ditto for me, either location. Bob

Gene, Glad you posted this since I have the same problem, mostly because there is a lot of me to get out of the kayak quickly. I vote for Evan's method which seems like a revelation....simply reverse the process of the beach launch! Looking forward to giving it a try. Bob

Gene, I'll take a look at this, thanks. I've been in the Biddeford pool (with Rene) trying to get my off-side roll, and have re-visited all the problems with the original on-side roll. Off-side seems to be coming along, however. It has helped me to use the white water (Dagger) boats that they provide since my Aurora has so much more inertia. Last weekend I was getting the on-side C-to-C (as well as the off-side) in the Dagger because it is so responsive. However, others have mentioned the opposite, that they find the white water boats to be more difficult to roll. Biddeford also allows personal kayaks; and I have brought mine up there to practice further in it (as well as re-enter and roll). Rolling the sea kayak involves the same moves, but the Aurora responds in 'slow-motion' compared to the Dagger. By the way, I would give a plug to Brian and Teresa....they really do try to help people with rolling during the pool sessions. As Rene mentioned, this is it for pool sessions until NSPN starts them in the winter. Is anyone aware of pool sessions that run in November and December? I understand that NSPN tried it last year, and there was not enough participants to justify them. Is there more interest this year? Bob

Hi Renee, I agree with Sal's points. Early in the season when I first saw rock play, I thought is rather absurd to take these large awkward (not to mention, expensive) boats through tiny rock passages in surging water. I had a notion of towing surf kayaks or even well-floated recreation kayaks out to nearby islands and leaving the sea kayaks behind.....which by the way still seems like a good idea to me. However, after going out with very skilled rock garden players and trying it myself during the summer......there is a method to the madness. Fine boat control is really sharpened by navigating in these areas, and it makes you highly attentive to the immediate wave environment, two important skills in general sea kayaking. Although I have less experience in surf, similar statements are made about surf kayaking as a training tool. This is really emphasized in John Lull's book Sea Kayaking Safety and Rescue; which has excellent chapters on handling both surf and rock gardens. I don't think that rock gardens are necessarily that dangerous, but obviously they do require a higher level of caution. What I have found out is that rescues in them are really problematical. Sweep rolls are sometimes impossible with close-in rocks; and there often is not enough maneuver room for the standard rescue techniques such as T-rescue....not to mention the fact that with people in the water the wave-propelled kayaks themselves become dangerous. Lull seems to suggest swimming out as often the best option in these situations, but as I found out this summer that can be difficult with a kayak. Abandoning the kayak to swim out increases the chances of losing it in the washout, which can be very dangerous in the open ocean. Of course it is a good place to tow, as long as your kayak partners are careful and practiced to avoid entangling. Next summer I would like to practice staged rescues in rock gardens. My favorite paddling area, Salem Sound, has an extraordinary variety of rock gardens of varying difficulties both near the shore and on far islands. There are many other places as well. NSPN regularly posts trips in which rock play is mentioned. Bob

Ernie the gunslinger is also seen on Lisa's fifth picture.

Gene, As to your other point, open crossings versus shoreline. On my trips to Misery from Salem, I usually do the open crossing on the way out; and go down the coast on the return. The shoreline is interesting, with the rocks and coastal mansions (although lately I tend to think about the burdens of maintaining those monsters!). There is the crossing of the Danvers river at Lynch park, which has boat traffic and its own peculiar chop, however overall the return seems much faster because you see progress along the shore. This especially helps when tired. Bob

Gene, Lisa, Lorrie, Phil, Leon, Ernie, and I headed from Lanes at about 11:30 on a beautiful fall day with air temp about 50 degrees making the water feel warm. Low tide, bright sunshine and no wind/waves at the start. Progressed to southern tip of Plum Island with Leon setting the pace (for himself, of course). Lisa and I made an attempt to keep him in sight, which turned out to be an excellent noon-time workout for me. Had lunch on a sandbar at the tip of the island, then headed out for some promising breaking waves on a more eastward sandbar. Turns out they looked more impressive from the shore than they turned out to be - yet, everyone got some nice rides in from the surface energy. Lisa had a minor spill and I got soaked from a breaker, but otherwise no significant drama. Starting back to Lanes, Lisa and Leon dropped back for some pictures, and then managed to lose a paddle. Apparently some cleverness with the GPS on Lisa's part led to a recovery and we re-grouped for the paddle in as winds picked up from the east and some (~1') chop developed. The sky was magnificent with the sun breaking through light cloud cover. All arrived back at about 4:30 or so after a wonderful afternoon paddle. Thanks for calling it, Gene! Bob

Planning on going, but still a little tentative because of work. Bob

QUOTE(Kevin B @ Oct 9 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hey Bob, G doesn't like long paddles like this so she's our "backup" in case the group tires. Kevin, Sounds like a plan. Will check back tonight (and/or tomorrow morning) for confirmation and details. Pintail, sorry to hear. I had that last week. Bob

QUOTE(Kevin B @ Oct 8 2009, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You don't know until you try! Post here, email or PM with interest. Looks like Sunday is the pick of the week, weather-wise. Could start out with you guys and arrange to be picked up if run out of gas, or maybe 'limp' back down the coast to Salem. If there is enough interest we could have a slow poke pod? We did that earlier in the season when Leon was training for the Blackburn. Bob

It is interesting that he climbed into a moored boat to save himself. When crossing a harbor I still make a mental note of moored boats with water line platforms as I pass them. Bob

Great trip everyone. Absolutely perfect weather and enough energy on the surface for adventures all around. We even had a seal show up, probably curious about what these suicidal creatures were doing out on the Gooseberry breakers! Mike, welcome and beautiful job on that cedar strip kayak. As you mentioned, having built it from scratch, you are uniquely qualified to repair it after one of our trips! Thanks to Kevin for calling it, and Glen, Lorrie, Phil, Mike, and Leon for participating. Bob

Peter, I'm coming to the meeting, but have to pass on the paddle due to work constraints. Have a good time everyone. Bob

QUOTE(Kevin B @ Sep 23 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Looks like a bit of bump coming in for the weekend. Anyone interested in putting in at the Willows or somewhere close by (no car for this Sat.) say late morning for a little time in the rocks? This would most assuredly be a rock play trip so bring that helmet! Please post, pm or email interest. P.S. If anyone is interested in carpooling, then I can expand my potential play area Kevin, Heading over to Tuck's in Beverly from Forest River. Will keep radio on Ch 72. Bob

Rob, Thanks to you and Rick Crangle for the help at Chebacco this summer. Also, would like to thank Rick Stoehrer for the Wednesday sessions in Amesbury. These sessions were excellent for kayaking information and practice. Bob

Peter, I plan on attending for the L3 trip. Bob

There are at least two problems with recreation kayaks in the ocean: 1) insufficient or nonexistent flotation and 2) no deck lines. When it fills with water, most of these kayaks will either just float at the surface or even sink entirely. You've lost your floating platform, and it almost impossible for fellow kayakers to rescue you with the boat. Without deck lines there is nothing to grab onto to pull yourself up. You could probably fix this with flotation bags, although when I tried them in the pool they just popped out. However, I've seen very effective flotation on canoes, so suspect it was just my poor fixation of the bags. Another problem with recreation kayaks is energy usage - they seem much harder to paddle long distances in, especially in wind and waves. Many recreation kayaks have no tracking ability. I started with a series of them, some of which I still have for guests when we take short harbor trips near the shore. I used to take a Phoenix (with good fixable flotation, by the way) and a Victory Navigator out into the ocean before I joined NSPN. They were great fun, highly maneuverable and indestructible in surf and rocks, but overall not very safe. Kids like the Phoenix because it is so light (about 30lbs). The Phoenix was also good training for balance control since it is strongly coupled to the paddler's body. On the other hand, the Victory is very comfortable and almost impossible to tip over, so adult beginners like it. I still take a Perception Pirouette (a small river white water kayak) to pools to practice rolling since it is small and an easy roller. However, I don't think there is much use for these boats in the ocean. Friends have told me that the flotation problem with recreation kayaks is being addressed in newer models. They are certainly very popular, probably more popular than sea kayaks because of the lower cost and smaller size. I see a lot of fishing from them, and rarely from sea kayaks. I'm not sure if NSPN has a policy about recreation kayaks - maybe someone else knows the answer. However, I think the bird watching idea is a good one and there are the beautiful salt marshes around the Jones River in Gloucester, the tidal basin behind Plum Island,.....many places where a recreation kayak in salt water is fine. Bob

QUOTE(Kevin B @ Sep 19 2009, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Change of plans for today. Will be paddling out of Doliber Cove in Marblehead for a trip playing in the rocks. Shooting for 12:30. It will not be a long distance trip and time on the water may be short/long depending on the wishes of the group. Kevin, Just saw this. I'll be leaving from Forest River about 11:30 for Doliber. Will have radio on Ch72. Bob

Phil, From my vantage point behind you, it seemed like you got perched on a rock ledge as the water drained. It could only have been a second, but it seemed much longer and I remember thinking 'what happens now?'. Well, I guess nature had an answer! Kudos for staying in the boat and helping to right yourself afterwards. Bob

Gene, Excellent trip report. I hope it does not set a new poetic standard for these reports! In any case, as one who was close in, thanks to Kevin and Scott for the tips on how to handle the rocks - not to mention at least two well-timed warnings of incomings (while I was busy admiring the beauty of crashing waves on the rocks). Instead of adding to the spectacle on the rocks, by racing up the first one I was able to escape with just a mouthful of Swampscott surf; and then managed to do an end-around on the second. On the way back, just east of the base of Marblehead neck, Kevin and I encountered the largest breaking wave (8 feet?) I've ever seen close up. He went over the cusp, and I was thankfully a little off to the side when I went over it. It truly looked like a miniature version of the famous wave in the movie 'Perfect Storm', with us frantically climbing up the side of a dreadful 'mountain of water'. Luckily the beast was sufficiently far from the rocks that had it up-ended us we would probably just have had a swim. Great day on the water. Thanks for calling it. Bob