EEL

>> Sea-state was >>flat calm but, were these people crazy or unninformed, or am >>I an alarmist? I confess to believing that applying dogma in an unthinking manner is never good. I also believe most outdoor activity clubs tend to be dogmatic about safety issues as it is perceived to be the best and most responsible way to drill it into the heads of the majority of the membership which tend to be inexperienced/unskilled and generally unable to make sound decisions by themselves. I don't really disagree with that approach as the underlying reasons are valid most of the time. Consider these data points. In Bar Harbor, outfitters well into Sept. are taking people with minimal experience, admittedly in tandems, on what would be L3 NSPN trips and none of those participants are wearing wetsuits or drysuits. There are many guided trips in this area and Stonigton with water temps in the low 60s at best and the clients are not wearing wetsuits let alone drysuits. If it were unalterably true that to be safe it was an absolute that a drysuit or wetsuit were needed in these situations, I suspect the insurers of these businesses would require it or the rates would be prohibitive. If it were dangerous, there would be far more incidents than there are. The water temps above Casco Bay are seldom much above 60 anytime of year, yet the large majority of kayakers are not wearing drysuits and most are not wearing wetsuits. Are all these people idiots or uniformed or crazy? No, but some may well be. Many are reasonable people with a good deal of experience, adequate knowledge to evaluate the issues appropriately, accustomed to the conditions and making safety decisions based on a galaxy of factors. Just because they do not reach decisions that comply with a some set of rules and establish safety margins that do not comply with those of others does not make them crazy or ignorant or unsafe. Having said that, I too have watched others launch in cotton sweatshirts and no extra gear as I was loading all kinds of stuff into my boat and struggling into my drysuit. When in doubt I err on the side of caution and for anything other than a practice session on a local lake always take enough stuff to get by for a couple of days. But I have also kayaked in water under 60 wearing only hydroskin and think it was appropriate under the circumstances. Ed Lawson

>Yeah... something about a CK Explorer weighing in around >46lb Don't you have those numbers transposed? Ed Lawson

>What? What? New NDK boat? Do tell all... I know nothing. Only read snippets supposedly by Nigel Dennis on a webpage. http://www.kayakwisconsin.net/2006/07/x-boat.html Suspect little will be known until after dealer's meeting or wahtever this Fall. If I remember correctly, he said it had less rocker and a few other tweaks. It was intended as more a do anything day/play/weekend boat, but not a full expedition boat which was the design goal for the Explorer. Might be all wrong, but that is what I remember anyway Ed Lawson

> >Ummm.. not sure I see the relevance of bow shape to paddling >backwards... When paddling backwards, the bow, acting like a >stern, is in the low pressure, flat water generated inside >the bow wake (now coming from the stern moving forward) and >thus its shape is a lot less relevant -- it's free to slide >around pretty freely no matter what. Yes. I was just commenting that I think the freer the bow the more easily it will slide round when paddling backwards and turning. The Force's bow slides very easily across the water in that setting so I think it has a loose bow. > I do know the >Naut needs to be edged quite decisively to get a good turn. That was my impression and I think that is due to the lack of well defined chine and reduced rocker. The Avocet which is similar in hull design turns much more easily due I think to increased rocker and being shorter. >Is that what you mean by engaging the chines midships? > Basically. The well defined chine on the Force does not begin until around the footpegs and then carries well aft. Therefore you need to lean it over well to engage the chine to make it contribute whatever it is going to do for the boat. The front part of the boat has a more rounded cross section which I think frees the bow and the chine carried well aft may tend to make the stern stick more. Maybe that is to help it surf better, Danny is a big surfer, or to balance the boat more, or to improve tracking....I don't know. One of the the things I look for in boats is what type of chine, if any, they have and where is it located. The chine is often asymmetrical in terms of along the length of the boat. My limited experience is boats which carry a well defined chine far foward can really be turned with a little edge, especially those with a hard chine. For example, for me the Q Boat will take a set and really turn with just a little lean as will the AA. This may or may not be a good trait depending on what you want to do with the boat. I think the rounded chine on an Explorer is fairly symmetrical and comparatively short. That may explain why it seems I can slide both bow and stern around easily on that boat to pivot it or turn it as opposed to carving a turn on a chine. If that makes sense, who knows..just impressions. Ed Lawson

, drank loads of Scottish >beer No whiskey? Ed Lawson

> I'd paddled out to the light a number of >times but the island is a IF&W seabird island and is closed >from 1 April to 31 August. One reason I think it is great to paddle in Sept. even Downeast, is all the islands you can then visit since most are barred until Aug. 31. Added benefit is the stable weather. Not sure if increased swell is benefit or not. > > >If you are on Muscongus this time of year, you should give >it a try. Care to hazard a guess as to what the foilage might be like there over Columbus Day weekend? Ed Lawson

> >Any news or comments? I think you need to keep trying boats till you find the one that fits and performs right for you. Might as well wait and see what 2007 brings. New NDK boat as well I hear. Seems there are several new boats coming out whose hulls are going for less rocker, fuller, and less "dead wood". Interesting times. Ed lawson

>I suspect what happened to Ernie was that he was searching >for the end of the secondary stability and found it -- the >hard way. I must preface by saying I'm not sure any of this gearhead stuff has much to do with paddling, but I must confess to enjoying the discussions. Anyway, I really do not know what "secondary stability" is since it is used in so many ways. I would instead say that if he was leaning the boat on clam water, then he simply leaned the boat to the point where the righting moment went negative. What that says about how a boat performs in rough water is, I think, essentially very little. Maybe the righting moment drops off suddenly or maybe it is never large...guess we would need to look at the curves from SK to have a clue. If you look at the stability curves for the Aquanaut and the Explorer, I suspect you would not find big differences. I suspect the intial segment of the curve is steeper on the Explorer which gives it that "shoulder". Compare either to a Kapp or a Bahiya and you would see a huge difference. Which is why the following comment is interesting. > >The 'Naut is like that... no preferred edge angle, unlike >the Romany-Explorer hull. That's part of the "creamy" edging >profile of the 'Naut. You have to put the boat at the edge >~you~ want; it won't do it for you. Now I agree the two have this different feel, but I don't think the stability curves show righting moments that would explain or justify the big shoulder edge often descrbed for the Explorer. And it is why I think "secondary stability" is a purely subjective judgement by each of us as individuals about how a boat feels when things get rough. Often boats with very small righting moments, but with broad, gently sloping curves that extend outward farther are found to be very seaworthy. Yet they are very tippy boats once leaned and will capsize easily if statically leaned. I suspect the fact it takes very little force to right or heel them make it very easy for good paddlers to keep the boat under them. > > Another is the >tight bow, with the convex sides. This seems right to me, but it is interesting that the Force is seen as a hard tracking, less manuverable boat, but it has a concave, rounded bottom bow which should give it a looser bow which is often associated with "turny" boats. If I paddle both backwards and intitate a turn, I find this to be quite true and the Force's bow with slide across the water much more easily. This is turn suggests a tight or loose bow is not a big factor in manuverability. To me the Force is at least as manuverable as an Aquananut in terms of the ability to get it turning and to keep in turning underway, but this only results, I suspect, when you engage the well defined chines midships. Sort of like the AA which may not seem so "turny" until you get the chine engaged. Its flatter hull and narrower beam also means it pivots well given the lack of rocker and length. In the end, there are so many factors that go into how a given hull performs, whatever that means, that I suspect laymen such as myslef are simply like the blind men describing an elephant when it comes to understanding why boats do what they do. This spring I asked someone how they liked their Nigel Foster boat that was sitting on their car. He took around five minutes to slowly walk from bow to stern explaing what each curve did, how it all fit together, and why he liked how the hull performed for the paddling he liked to do. Turned out he was a naval architect. It was a real education in how little we know about how boats really work. Fortunately, all we have to do is find boats that feel right for us. Ed Lawson

>but if you >happen to own a large expensive sailboat or a motor yacht >they are fine with you taking your dinghy ashore for a >picnic---Sounds like class discrimination to me. Yes, but they may have had bad experiences with small boat folks. Lack of heads and all that. I find the scientific experiment stuff a bit questionable to say the least. I noticed lobsterman are fishing right up to the shore so to speak. Quite a contrast with Bartlett on MDI where the owners have posted to show you are welcome to land and walk along the shore. Ed Lawson

Wish we had been there, but a bit tired after getting back on Friday night and the dogs needed time with us. Neat report, fine sentiments, and commendable endeavor. Ed Lawson

>Hmm, after all this back and forth about knives, I think >I've decided to just use my kitchen butane torch. Yes, but will it work underwater? I think you need a torch which includes an oxygen tank. Great idea. Cut through anything. Ed Lawson

This spring Gail and I planned on spending the second week of Sept. touring around Stonington. Then the Downeast Sypmposium was announced and we decided to do a few days of it and then go to Stonington. As it turned out, we never got to Stonington. Still we did eight straight days of paddling, two around MDI, three in the Symposium, and three around Great Wass. First, the Symposium was great and had something for everyone. If you are not a BCU certificate hunter type or looking to be a coach, there were still many classes of interest. Spending a day with a coach who had competed and won at the Greenland championships was,to put it mildly, productive toward use of the GP. All in all, even if you can only go for a day or two, it is definitely worth the trip. Second, we did two trips on MDI. Sat. it was a 16 mile loop from Seal Cove, to Moose, to Underwood,to Bartlett and through the narrows back. This was the apparent site of a fatality two days later. Since it was foggy we took off with the idea of only wandering about a little and to take it easy. It is a nice are reasonably well protected stretch of water, but if you do not check the tides and read the charts, you are in for hard work or worse. The first half of the day and all three crossings were done in the fog. It is reassuring to paddle for 30 minutes and have the island you are aiming for loom out of the fog, but then you have to determine if you hit the point on the shore you were aiming for and that can get tricky since we were taking an offshore first, clockwise loop. Somehow we managed to cross paths with the only lobster boat working the area that day, but 25 meters is as good as a mile. Around noon the fog lifted and it was a great, sunny day with beautiful views. Unfortuantely we had @10-15Kt headwind down the narrows, but a strong current was in our favor so I picked where the water was roughest and off we went. Gail gave me a couple of "Why are you doing this?" looks and I'm not sure she approved of my logic, but she understood the advantage of doing 4 Kts into the wind to get home was worth the lumpy ride. Trip turned out to be more than anticpated, but it is a wonderful area for a relaxed paddle and if you are on MDI and the seas are kicking up, it is the place to go if you are not into rougher stuff. On Tuesday we listened to the continuing small craft advisory for hazardous seas (it lasted from Mon. through Wed.), looked across at the Cranberries from Seal Harbor and thought its only 2.5 miles and sheltered from the swells, and the wind will be at our back so why not. 45 minutes later were were at the Isleford town dock. Isleford is a classic bit of Americana and an absolutely wonderful place to visit. Don't worry about food, just walk up Main St. to the general store/post office which is a living Norman Rockwell painting and pick up some wonderful goodies. The NPS maintains a nice museum of island life as well. Since conditions had been modest we decided to poke our noses out the off shore side and see if going to Baker Island was OK. Seemed to be so we set out to another lovely island to visit. The views back to MDI from Baker are beautiful. A few breaking ledges and some mild tide rips made for an interesting trip. Once on Baker and up the hill a bit, we could start to see and hear the large swells from the East pounding the shore of Baker along our route back. Also, the wind was from the NNE and building modest wind waves of up to 2 feet. It was a lively 3 miles back with swells up to 5 feet on our beam and with wind waves off the bow. It was invigorating to hear and see the swell that had just past under you suddenly stand up into a towering light green wall and just as fast collapse into a cauldron of foam. Later we got to ride the swells down to Seal Harbor. All in all a great day with a mixture of excitement on the water and a time travel back in time on land. I cannot say enough about this route and it is a must do on MDI. Third, we spent three days around Great Wass. I must preface this part by saying, don't go there. Really, the only responsible thing is to discourage people. It is a different world on shore and off. Even under good conditions it is serious business there. Paddling in Stonington is warm and friendly compared to the Great Waas. Of course it is also so drop dead beautiful that it just takes your breath away and forever changes your perception of what constitutes a beautiful paddle. The first day had the by-now-routine warning for hazardous seas, the second day that was supposed to be good and wasn't, and the final day that was as good as it gets. The first day was a trip around the Rouque Island area. Its hard to imagine you are looking at a pristine, virtually unused sand beach that is over a mile long in Roque Harbor, but you are. We travelled along the seeward side of the island chain leading to Halifax to watch the swells smash onto the cliffs and bounce off. Dealing with the resulting sea state made landing on Halifax a welcome respite. All I can say is being on the top of the little hill on Halifax is worth the price of admission. Wonderous 360 views with swells crashing below. Scanning about with binoculars revealed that in the surrounding 50 square miles of visable ocean there was only one other vessel, a lobster boat. It was almost too beautiful to leave, but we did. The 2.5 mile crossing to the coast was fast on rear quartering seas and wind. After the day's paddle, the 2'+ beach surge seemed trivial even to these timid folks. The NOAA forecast for the second day was fine, but it was a gray, damp, windy morning as we prepared to launch from the Beal Town dock. Sobering was the CG Pan-Pan announcement of a report of a man in the water and a request that vessels be on the lookout in the area. Then a classic exchange with a lobsterman who had just come in from the bay: "Going for a ride are you?" Gail: "Yes, down to Mistake Island area, but how far depends on the weather." "Well...when you hang off the can at the end of the Gut you may think differently." We did. By using every ledge we could find to play hide and seek with the wind, we were able to get into the lee of Head Harbor Island and go down its length to Black Head where we peeked out into the wind to watch the swells in profile hit the cliffs and then see the reflecting waves roll seeward. After another hide and seek game we gained the protection of the Pig's Gut happy to be done early after around ten miles or so. The burgers at Tall Barney's tasted especially fine that afternoon. The last day's conditions were all one could hope for. Wind 5-10Kts with 2-4 foot seas. Down the east side of Eastern Bay watching hoardes of birds and seals while listening to the grunts of ledged seals, and into the Cow's Yard. A most magical place and if you get to Jonesport, don't leave without visiting it. Then cautiously out Head Harbor and by barren Man Island to go along the headlands of Steele Harbor Island toward the Mistake Island light. Then along the wonderful pink granite walls of the Main Channel Way, around to the back of Mistake Island, where we encountered two bald eagles and more seals, to visit the lighthouse. After a brief repast of wild rasberries and wandering amongst more ledges, we set off across Mud Hole channel, through the Black Ledges and more boomers to Cape Cove on Great Wass. Using the incoming tide we almost flew back to the Gut along wonderous walls and islands, all with contrasting layers of dark vegatation and glowing pink granite topped with stunted softwoods All in all a stunning day of beauty. Three days of paddling an never saw another kayak, but friendly waves from passing lobstermen. Its a special place and next year we hope to explore the "west" side from Split Cape. Ed Lawson

> >Interestingly a seeminingly-neutral response from a Canadian >seller of both Impex and Valley suggested that the Forces >are unidimensional trackers and that the Aquanauts are much >better in conditions. I would not put much faith in that assesment of the boats. I'm not saying anything against the Aquanaut, its a great boat. I have always found my RM Avocet to be solid and predictable. However, the Force, the 3 and 4 anyway, is much more than a unidimensional tracker and it is superb in conditions. It cannot be just a tracker if I can do a 180 degree bow rudder in it. A few days ago Gail and I were coming back from Baker I. off the south tip of MDI. 3+ mile crossing with 3-5' swells from the East and 1-2' wind waves coming from North driven by 10-15Kt wind. We just paddled along through it at 3 Kt..no drama. Yes, not conditions for the hard folks, but not placid stuff either. It is not a play boat, but it was made to cover ground easily despite conditions and it does that very, very well. Ed Lawson

>Hi Ed, >By "creamy" edging I'm trying to describe the smoothness of >the lean from horizontal to up on edge. The Force simply had >a continuousness that was more comfy than the step-function >feel of the harder chines of my Looksha (or the Shadow) for >example. Got it, and yes it will rotate about its length axis very easily. Actually it will rotate 360 degrees very easily so it not just to an edge. >Force's seat and thigh braces appear to >need some work The 5 has a huge cockpit. For folks around 6 feet and 180 plus or minus 20 the 4 has a great stock fit. Today I looked at a 4 used by a BCU L4 coach of around that size. It was absolutely stock. Of course some prefer a loose fit too. >I've got to compare them in the same session. Yes, only you know what boat works for you. It is always ineresting how people differ in their impressions of boats since they are reporting how the boat worked for them. Sometimes I read impressions and wonder if we paddled the same boat. Of course they would say the same about my impressions. One thing I discovered at the Symposium in Bar Harbor is how sensitive all these boats are to trim and weight shifts so the boats really do perform differently for people of different sizes who sit/paddle differently Ed Lawson

Since the Force 5 has the same hull as the Force 4, my experience in one and my limited experience in an Aquanaut might be relevant. >I want an efficient fast hull that'll safely get me into >Level III trips, and is reasonably easy to roll. Both will do this for you without a sweat. In fact, I rather imagine both are more than capable of loafing through any conditions you will encounter on any formal NSPN trip outside of rock grdening and surfing. After all, both are designed as go anywhere expedition boats. >Has anyone closely compared these two 'yaks? At this level, your personal preferences and physical fit are really the deciding factors and the opinions of others really don't matter much unless they are not only your size, but have similar preferences in boats. >I'm attracted to the 5's speed and "creamy" edging feel, but >wonder if it'll be as seaworthy in big swell as the >Aquanaut? What is "creamy edging"? I have found the Force to have a nice blend of responsiveness and unflapability. As a result it is an enjoyable day boat for long/fast lets see and explore some territory trips as opposed to play amongst rocks and surf trips. More so to me than the Aquanaut, but talking personal preference stuff not performance stuff. Not sure what your concerns are with swells, but if you mean running down or quartering 15-20K wind in swells of say 5-6' that are just on the edge of breaking, I know the Force is solid in such stuff. You can just pick your course and paddle away to maintain speed as opposed to spending time and energy dealing with a contrary boat. I have also found the Force well mannered when paddling across/down/through smaller breaking waves. Others have told me the Aquanaut is great as well. I think the Force is a more lively boat and that may or may not appeal to you. >Is the latter therefore considerably slower >because of shorter WL and more rocker? No. >Should I care? No. >I like a quiet bow... The Force will slap or pound more on chop or when going over large, steep swell compared to the Aquanaut. I have been told when heavily loaded a Force does not do this and will slice through waves which makes for a wet ride. I am just a beginner with limited experience so take all this with a grain of salt or two. I believe there are boats whose personality is that they enable you to easily survive "conditions" and there are boats that perform well in "conditions" and some boats do rather well in both departments. By perform well I mean you can maintain/change course and speed inspite of "conditions" while traveling as opposed to playing in rough stuff. By survive I mean the boat will basically take care of you and will likely be a good play boat in rough stuff, but may not be all that good at performing in conditions, I cannot speak to the Aquanaut as I have never had it in "conditions", but the Force will perform well in adverse stuff and it will not do you wrong either. Its a sweet boat, but then I own one so natuarally I would think that. Have you tried a NF Shadow? Ed Lawson

First, I agree with Brian and will go further and say I hope there is a special place in Hell for the designers who do not incluude a "real" viewfinder on these types of digital cameras. Second, for casual photos I rather doubt the increase in pixels means much if anything. Third, the anti-blur feature is the only thing beyond pixels that seems different and upping the ISO speed to enable the use a higher shutter speed is, IMHO, not a good solution for the reason that higher ISO speeds mean lower picture quality. It is not anti-vibration like some digital SLRs have. On the 10 you can select the ISO speed and/or shutter speed to reduce chances of getting blurred pictures due to motion which is an issue when you are taking photos from a kayak. Is it worth and extra $50? Don't know as there maybe other improvements in the software which result in enhanced pics. I find it is quite important to go through the manual and play with the camera quite a bit to understand what you can do to maximize picture quality. Just becasue these cameras can be used as point and shoot cameras does not mean they should be used that way without a little tweaking from the defaults. Ed Lawson

> I think I >may have a "problem". So the support group may be just what >I need. Hmmmm. Sounds like you have found my description to you accurate. When out of it, you just think about getting inside again don't you? Ed Lawson

> Anyone wanna start an Anas Acuta >owners support group? There seem to be more AA people than I thought. I wonder how many folks out there actively use their AA? If the support group provided "relationship counselling" regarding the AA, I'd join in heartbeat. Ed Lawson

> > >This may be a bit far afield, but there is a huge gray seal >population in the Monomoy Islands/Nauset Beach area. This is far afield too, but .... What is happening with the listed trip to Monomy Islands to go look at seals? Has been TBD since listed. Ed Lawson

>I'll be there as well... Are you coming from Montreal for just those four days or will you be about for longer? Staying at your favorite campground? I will ask Mel if she is putting up a message board so folks could make it easier to contact one another. Ed Lawson

Adam: I don't believe you need to bother with the licensing requirements in other countries as I doubt you would be able to acquire a license as a foreign visitor. Rather the issue is what licenses do you need from the FCC to legally operate a VHF marine radio from your boat at "sea" to communicate with stations in other countries. I believe a voluntary vessels and those aboard them never need a license to communicate with other vessels at "sea" regardless of their location. I have not looked at the regs lately, but my memeory is you will need a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's License and a station license as well. I believe both can be obtained by doing nothing more than filling out forms or at most answering some very basic questions. This assumes you are talking about using the radio with a kayak which is referred to as a "voluntary" vessel as the rules for involuntary vessels are quite different. This should give you the info you need and how to apply for the requisite licenses. http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html#SEC2 Ed Lawson

Not sure what the migration schedule is, but about two weeks ago there were still tons of seals in the Great Waas area and not many in Casco Bay so I suspect they have yet to show up in big numbers in Mass. Ed Lawson

> We're taking 4* Friday and >Saturday, rock gardens Sunday, and currents on Monday. Man, if you are not tired puppies by Monday night you folks are some heavy hitters. Hopefully I will meet you at the Lobster fest, which is more my speed, and tales will abound. Ed Lawson

So how many folks are going to Bar harbor and what classes being taken? From the drysuit thread it seems several are going up. Anyone planning on private trips if they have free time? Ed Lawson

> I will NOT be taking it >to the symposium. If it's THAT cold up there, the whole >event is in trouble! Huh?? Water temps all summer tend to be in the mid to upper 50s up there. Sept. is a wonderful time as the nights are cool (40s-50s, the days bracing (upper 60s), less fog, fewer people, rates lower. Ed Lawson