Workshop by John Huth: "Kayak Navigation: Finding Our Way" : Sunday January 26th

[Gcosloy]

John,

Its not as accurate but in a pinch a folded sheet of paper and a length of string marked out in nautical miles could substitute for parallel ruler and dividers.

[JohnHuth]

John,

Its not as accurate but in a pinch a folded sheet of paper and a length of string marked out in nautical miles could substitute for parallel ruler and dividers.

Perhaps, but not for this exercise - it's in preparing a chart ahead of time with lines of magnetic declination. I suppose people could try it with folded paper and compare results.

[Katherine]

The exercise sounds good to me. I will have a compass and chart/s but not the other items.

[JohnHuth]

I'll bring a set, and I think Sal will, so at least we'll have two going. I'll find a local chart that we'll use for the exercise.

[bbjorn]

I also have a set of the above items I will bring for folks to use.

Blaine

[JohnHuth]

Topics: attendance and choice of chart

Excellent - we have three sets now. Can I get a rough census of people who are coming, so we can figure out the size of groups working together? I realize plans can change at the last minute, but it's good to find out who is intending to go.

Here's another question - we should all have common charts to work from. My inclination is to go with a chart that most people might find handy.

One is a 1:25000 of Boston Harbor - you can preview it here:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13270.shtml

It's chart 13270

Another is the approach to Southwest Harbor

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13321.shtml

It's chart 13321

Charts are available typically as print-on-demand by places like Charts Online - (nautical charts.com)

Here's a link to the SW Harbor chart from Charts Online:

http://nauticalcharts.com/search_details.php?ID=18603&SearchField=13321

Boston Harbor

http://nauticalcharts.com/search_details.php?ID=19008&SearchField=13270

If we're breaking up into teams, we don't necessarily need one chart per person.

Note that there aren't any large tidal currents for these areas. I may try to choose a smaller area for printout where there are significant tidal currents.

[JohnHuth]

If we could, can we go with the chart of Boston Harbor that I indicated in my previous message?

If we can get a few other people to bring them, we can go with this for any exercises.

Thanks!

John

[Phil Allen]

not sure if this helps, but you can download the pdf for that chart and print it yourself

the link is:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/PDFs/13270.pdf

best

Phil

[JohnHuth]

There's a possible solution, except might be difficult to read unless large enough scale. Kinkos and Staples won't print it out for you....UNLESS.... you're able to clip away the fine print, saying where it came from. I've tried to get large printouts of topos from Kinkos and Staples and they refused, but when I altered them and clipped out the USGS information, they were willing.

[jason]

I won't be able to attend after all. :-(

[Gcosloy]

Topics: attendance and choice of chart

Excellent - we have three sets now. Can I get a rough census of people who are coming, so we can figure out the size of groups working together? I realize plans can change at the last minute, but it's good to find out who is intending to go.

Here's another question - we should all have common charts to work from. My inclination is to go with a chart that most people might find handy.

One is a 1:25000 of Boston Harbor - you can preview it here:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13270.shtml

It's chart 13270

Another is the approach to Southwest Harbor

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13321.shtml

It's chart 13321

Charts are available typically as print-on-demand by places like Charts Online - (nautical charts.com)

Here's a link to the SW Harbor chart from Charts Online:

http://nauticalcharts.com/search_details.php?ID=18603&SearchField=13321

Boston Harbor

http://nauticalcharts.com/search_details.php?ID=19008&SearchField=13270

If we're breaking up into teams, we don't necessarily need one chart per person.

Note that there aren't any large tidal currents for these areas. I may try to choose a smaller area for printout where there are significant tidal currents.

John,

Maptech no longer uses the NOAA numbers but they have a Boston Harbor chart. Will that be equivalent? Also I shall be coming with another parallel rule!

[JohnHuth]

There are two charts that typically go by the name "Boston Harbor" - one is the 1:25,000 which is the one I'm proposing to use - you can look at it here:

http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/13270.shtml

The other is called "Boston Inner Harbor" and is 1:10,000, which I won't use.

I chose the Boston Harbor one because I thought that it's more likely people would have it, and also if they didn't it might come in handy for some local paddling. Finally, I learned a bit of history about the approaches to Boston Harbor - didn't know this until I gave a talk in Hull - but the old time route before channel dredging went past Hull, which is why there was a major life saving station there. So, all these conspired to make me think this would be a good choice for a chart.

I'm also going to bring some printouts of areas where there are modest currents, so we can do a bit of work on crossings (which seems to be a popular topic on this website).

[EEL]

Kinkos and Staples won't print it out for you....UNLESS.... you're able to clip away the fine print, saying where it came from. I've tried to get large printouts of topos from Kinkos and Staples and they refused, but when I altered them and clipped out the USGS information, they were willing.

John:

Do you mean they will not print out or copy a NOAA produced chart/PDF file? Perhaps they need to be reminded that publications of the the federal government can be copied freely by anyone. They are not subject to the restrictions of the copyright laws.

Ed Lawson

[JohnHuth]

You can get print on demand charts from anyone of a number of suppliers - like Ocean Grafix. That chart is definitely available - I ordered a copy on Thursday.

[Gcosloy]

John,

I have the Maptech waterproof chart 21 which is Boston Harbor. It appears to be similar to the NOAA chart except the scale is 1:33000 will I be able to use this for the exercise?

[JohnHuth]

As long as it covers as far south as Cohasset and as far north as the Harbor, it should be OK. It should also have a legible scale of distances in nautical miles.

[JohnHuth]

If you don't have the full kit, try to bring the two kinds of compasses - the magnetic kind and the kind that draws circles. Also a ruler. I think we'll have at least three sets of dividers and parallels coming. We can also form small teams, which is a good exercise anyway.

[spuglisi]

John if you're looking for a census, for attendance, here ....I'll be coming and I have a set of parallels, a divider and a compass. I have a chart on order and expect to have it by the weekend. I'll also bring a circle drawing compass if someone needs to borrow it. Dee Cleary will also be coming along.

[djlewis]

John:

Do you mean they will not print out or copy a NOAA produced chart/PDF file? Perhaps they need to be reminded that publications of the the federal government can be copied freely by anyone. They are not subject to the restrictions of the copyright laws.

Ed Lawson

From the USGS web site -- http://www.usgs.gov/laws/info_policies.html ...

Copyrights and Credits

USGS-authored or produced data and information are considered to be in the U.S. public domain. While the content of most USGS Web pages is in the U.S. public domain, not all information, illustrations, or photographs on our site are. Some non USGS photographs, images, and/or graphics that appear on USGS Web sites are used by the USGS with permission from the copyright holder. These materials are generally marked as being copyrighted. To use these copyrighted materials, you must obtain permission from the copyright holder under the copyright law.

When using information from USGS information products, publications, or Web sites, we ask that proper credit be given. Credit can be provided by including a citation such as the following:

Credit: U.S. Geological Survey

Department of the Interior/USGS

U.S. Geological Survey/photo by Jane Doe (if the photographer/artist is known)

Additional information on Acknowledging or Crediting USGS as Information Source is available.

Policy - For relevant USGS policy on copyrights and trademarks, refer to the Survey Manual chapter entitled, “Use of Copyrighted Material in USGS Information Products.”

Edited January 22, 2014 by djlewis

[JohnHuth]

I was only saying that the two times I've been into kinkos or staples to print out topos, they've refused. On the other hand, when I altered it, they seemed OK. I think it's more of a "cover your butt" attitude so they don't have to get into details of individual kinds of maps and such.

[EEL]

I was only saying that the two times I've been into kinkos or staples to print out topos, they've refused. On the other hand, when I altered it, they seemed OK. I think it's more of a "cover your butt" attitude so they don't have to get into details of individual kinds of maps and such.

John:

I believe you are correct about why they refused, but its irksome as the charts and topos are free of any copyright restrictions. The employees are just following an arbitrary rule as required and as given to them. I have encountered the same issue on occasion. I tend to just use their self service machines as opposed to discussing why NOAA charts an be copied freely which would be a frustrating exercise no doubt.

As to David's post regarding materials which are part of the USGS website (totally different issue from charts and topos), one would need to know the license obtained by USGS when it obtained the right to use the materials to know to what extent such materials are subject to copyright restriction. Perhaps I should have made clear I was commenting on the status of NOAA charts and USGS topos under the copyright laws.

Ed Lawson

[djlewis]

As to David's post regarding materials which are part of the USGS website (totally different issue from charts and topos), one would need to know the license obtained by USGS when it obtained the right to use the materials to know to what extent such materials are subject to copyright restriction. Perhaps I should have made clear I was commenting on the status of NOAA charts and USGS topos under the copyright laws.

Ed Lawson

I knew I should have removed the stuff about the web sites. The first sentence of that paragraph...

• USGS-authored or produced data and information are considered to be in the U.S. public domain.

... is the relevant one. The stuff about web sites is an exception to the general rule, and not relevant for charts. I wish they had put that sentence into a paragraph of its own, in large, bold type.

Anyway, I was offering that page as a way to deal with copy shops -- maybe print it, highlight that sentence and show it to them. Or give them the URL. But if it fooled Ed, it will probably not satisfy them. As John said, they are just Covering their A**.

Edited January 23, 2014 by djlewis