Chapmans landing...condolences

[spider]

Condolences to family and friends.

here is a link to the story

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130625/NEWS07/130629506/0/NEWS07

It does indeed strike home I was there 2 days ago, water very muddy.

Our greatest sympathy to all.

[Brian Nystrom]

I apologize if this sounds callous, but it's the same story we hear over and over again; a kayaker goes out alone, in questionable conditions (weather in this case), doesn't wear a PFD and winds up dead.

Honestly, what do we need to do to make people think before they jump in their boats??? Most of these deaths are 100% preventable if people would just use their heads and dress/equip themselves appropriately. It's so frustrating to see people making the same mistakes with the same outcome, every single year. I guess we should be prepared for another political battle against proposals that attempt to protect us from ourselves.

[spider]

Yes, it does sound callous.

[Katherine]

So very sad. Sympathies to her family and friends

Yes, Brian, your comments seem out of place... Perhaps you may consider another thread regarding the political topic an let this topic be one of condolences and memories.

[bob budd]

LIke Brian, I also have difficulty feeling sorry for the individual who irresponsibility saddles their family with their loss.

[Doug]

Eventually, we all pay for the mistakes we make in life. In this case, a very sad outcome.

Doug

[Pintail]

I'm also sorry if you think Brian's remarks callous -- because I do not think that so. Does one send condolences to every innocent who perishes in an automobile accident somewhere else in the world? One does not. Accidents happen because people make mistakes -- and fail to correct them (or themselves)

Of course any accident (boating or otherwise) is sad; but the human heart is only capable of so much sympathy, for crying out loud. Very often, when someone drowns in a so-called kayaking accident (do we include inflatables, rec boats and even stand-up paddleboards?), an enthusiastic NSPNer posts a notice here, as if we are somehow to blame for failing to teach our high standards far-enough abroad (EVERYone in New Hampshire, for instance?) -- we do try our best to make public awareness an issue -- it is part of our club raison d'être, not so? -- but to make such a big issue of yet another random drowning is somehow pointless. Preaching to the choir? I think so...and there <are> no lessons to be learned from this here. It might be different if there had been proven storm activity involved, or something of that nature; but there is truly nothing for us, as a community, here, I feel.

Please may we not be over-reactive in future? I am entirely with BN on this -- and he has been saying the same thing here for many years...

[spider]

I can't help but notice when a woman just a few years older than myself dies while paddling, especially in a place I go frequently.

In the hiking community people occasionally die in the woods I wonder if this is much the same only while paddling.

Huge heat spell here the past few days can't help but wonder about heat stroke, but I'll wait to see what they figure out.

My understanding is that the type of pdf's that we wear will Not keep an unconscious person afloat if face down.

Maybe it's a local thing but it's always sad when someone dies paddling around these parts.

In this case I would say... let they who walk on water cast the first stone....

[Pintail]

Nobody is <casting stones>, as far as I can see...

[rick stoehrer]

I'd go with sympathy on this one and maybe save the critique for another thread.

Not having any idea what class of PFD the lady had with her, it's hard to say whether or not it would have aided an unconscious person had she been wearing it. We mostly wear type III category flotation aids that do not ensure face up position in the water so while it may have helped, there is no guarantee that it's a "life preserver" in this instance...probably wouldn't have hurt.

It was a hot day, lotsa people out just trying to cool off.

I'm with spider on this one...i can't throw any stones and there but for the grace of God and all that...

[cfolster]

Nobody is <casting stones>, as far as I can see...

I quite agree with Brian and Pintail on this - while it may feel callous and like throwing stones, they are simply stating an uncomfortable truth. That truth is that the kayaker may not have been prepared to be out there and may have died because of that. It is not mutually exclusive of feeling and expressing sympathy for the family left to grieve for her.

[gyork]

Always surprised by some responses to this sort of tragedy that presume the victim was at fault, without knowing the circumstances surrounding a demise. Unrecognized/undiagnosed medical conditions, perhaps exacerbated by strenuous exercise account for an unknown percentage of sudden deaths, whether person was sleeping, paddling, or sitting under a rainbow. $0.02

[northerngirl]

And there is always the fact that someone may be depressed and just not care. We may or may not ever know, but there are people that knew and cared about this woman and they are are all hurting. All we should be concerned with is trying to educate others and do what we know best for ourselves while out on the water.

[EEL]

It is also possible the person understood the risks and potential consequences, chose to accept them, and things just did not work out as they had expected.

Ed Lawson

[Gcosloy]

I'm with Brian and Bob on this one: First of all empathy and sympathy regardless of fault from the Face Book crowd who neither know the victim or the circumstances seems oh so courrant. She was reported not to be wearing her PFD-nuf said! We are not blaming her just vetting some anger and frustration that this just seems to happen too frequently. Shame has gone out of style and perhaps should be brought back-highway deaths due to alcohol or distracted driving that leads to roadside memorials and sympathy for the victims does nothing to advance the state of safer driving. And we, a serious kayak community committed to safety on the water should take the opportunity to remind the rest of the kayaking public that there are ways to minimize accidents and deaths on the water. Expressions of sadness and empathy aren't enough.

Edited June 26, 2013 by GCosloy

[rick stoehrer]

Some of you, armed with only the merest scintilla of information as to the circumstances surrounding this incident or the experiences of this lady, feel so confident in your knowledge, skills and experiences that you condemn her for being "irresponsible" and ill prepared. ALL of that insight gleaned from a few words in a newspaper article. Impressive.

On the other hand, one could make the argument that there's a lot of judgment being tossed around backed by very little fact.

It's exactly the sort of thing that makes message boards and democracy so darn scary.

[cfolster]

Some of you, armed with only the merest scintilla of information as to the circumstances surrounding this incident or the experiences of this lady, feel so confident in your knowledge, skills and experiences that you condemn her for being "irresponsible" and ill prepared. ALL of that insight gleaned from a few words in a newspaper article. Impressive.

On the other hand, one could make the argument that there's a lot of judgment being tossed around backed by very little fact.

It's exactly the sort of thing that makes message boards and democracy so darn scary.

Sorry if this sidetracks the post . . .

Message boards serve as a sounding board and a place to have a discussion and they will almost certainly contain viewpoints that are scary to some. Spider posted the article on a public forum (with prior knowledge of typical responses) and people are responding with their honest opinions - including your opinion of the responses. It's all part of how the forums work. We should try to remember to be polite (not saying anyone hasn't been), but allow open discourse - otherwise forums are pointless.

I might suggest that for many, decrying her for not being prepared is a way to deal with the sadness and frustration the story evokes. Each person responds in their own way.

For me personally, I did not respond from some lofty opinion that my skills or experience allowed me to judge her - I'll never get to that point in my skills or experience. I was responding to the one fact in the story that stands out for me - her pfd was with the boat. I believe you can take that one fact from the story and be able to say she made at least one poor decision. But to go further and say it would have saved her had she been wearing it is as you've pointed out before, an assumption, because we don't know what kind it was or what the specific circumstances of her demise were.

[rick stoehrer]

So if we can agree that well informed, reasoned responses have merit and a place in the discussion, what would you call responses and viewpoints that are based on insufficient information? Are those viewpoints then just baseless conjecture or do those too have a place in the discussion and if they do have a place, are we exmaining the event or just gossiping and kibutzing on all the ways we're smarter and better based on what we {think} we know in an attempt to just whistle past the graveyard or what is that?

I do find a lack of circumspection, perspective and reflection scary. That carries into many fields.

Hope the family finds some peace and gets the answers they might be looking for cause it sure seems senseless.

[leong]

Dear friends and family of Ann Colcord,

On behalf of NSPN, our sympathies go out to you about the death of a fellow kayaker. May she rest in peace.

Leon (one of the founders of NSPN)