advice

[Bob Maselek]

Dear folks: Remember when you first started kayaking? I just joined and paid my dues. I am a complete novice with basically no knowledge of anything I need to know. I am reading a lot of kayaking books, but need to know how to start:

1-should I sign up for outdoor Charles River kayak lessons as soon as I can? Or, are there other lessons I should take?

2-what model boat (beginner??) should I start looking to buy?

3-should I attend NSPN pool sessions?

4-is it OK to ask if someone from NSPN would mentor me (just some advice once in a while)?

I am retired with some time on my hands and a desire to ultimately paddle around the Maine Island trail area. I am the type that wants to learn to do this properly so I have some fun and can be safe at the same time. I want to learn all the sea kayaking skills both mental and physical.

So, how do I start?/ THANKS IN ADVANCE// Bob

[bob budd]

1-I'm gonna pass on lessons, as I have taken few and I'm the sort that convinces seasoned instructors to join the Peace Corps

2-You should consider a moderate investment in a boat, i.e. not a cheap boat but also not something really expensive as it almost certainly won't suit you well and/or will be followed by purchases that suit your surfing, day-tripping, expeditioning, etc. A plastic boat tends to cost less and a glass boat tends to resell better.

3-Pool sessions are a mixed bag. Alot of the benefit tends to come from honing specific skills, though the right person might teach you proper bracing, entry/re-entry, etc. The pool just isn't anyplace to learn to paddle, i.e. you can't go very far.

4-You should feel free to seek advice from this and other boards, read, view videos, or do whatever works best for you to learn.

If you ultimately plan to paddle the islands you should also build a sound foundation in navigation and other self-reliant skills, i.e. even if you don't plan to paddle alone its always best if at least one person really knows how to interpret a chart, weather conditions, etc.

[brambor]

Bob,

Buying a boat is a matter of fit. It needs to fit your weight, height, body width... basically you need to get a few models in your size and then test paddle long enough so that you can feel assured you could paddle for hours without cramps and discomfort.

[spuglisi]

Dear folks: Remember when you first started kayaking? I just joined and paid my dues. I am a complete novice with basically no knowledge of anything I need to know. I am reading a lot of kayaking books, but need to know how to start:

1-should I sign up for outdoor Charles River kayak lessons as soon as I can? Or, are there other lessons I should take?

2-what model boat (beginner??) should I start looking to buy?

3-should I attend NSPN pool sessions?

4-is it OK to ask if someone from NSPN would mentor me (just some advice once in a while)?

I am retired with some time on my hands and a desire to ultimately paddle around the Maine Island trail area. I am the type that wants to learn to do this properly so I have some fun and can be safe at the same time. I want to learn all the sea kayaking skills both mental and physical.

So, how do I start?/ THANKS IN ADVANCE// Bob

Bob,

Welcome to the club!

In the spring NSPN puts on a "New to sea kayaking" workshop. The workshop is free to members and non-members alike. It will be a good place to gather information on safety, boats, equipment, safety, places to paddle, safety, to meet others to paddle with....and ...did I mention safety?

Also, once we have enough evening daylight there will be postings for lake, skill sessions scattered around the area. You shouldn't have any trouble finding people willing to give you advice and help you develop some basic skills.

What area do you live in?

See you on the water,

[Tom Tieman]

If you're looking for a book to read:

Sea Kayaker's Deep Trouble: True Stories and Their Lessons from Sea Kayaker Magazine [Paperback]

Matt Broze (Author), George Gronseth

[brambor]

If you are considering buying a new boat then consider taking a beginner's lesson from outfitters who also sell boats. Have them put you into the boat you are considering buying.

If you are considering buying a used boat then members here who have a boat for sale could offer to bring it to a Level 1 trip where you can spend more than an hour in the boat.

Not matter what - always paddle the boat you want to buy for extensive time. It is a major investment in money and peace of mind - no haste necessary.

Bob,

Buying a boat is a matter of fit. It needs to fit your weight, height, body width... basically you need to get a few models in your size and then test paddle long enough so that you can feel assured you could paddle for hours without cramps and discomfort.

[EEL]

a desire to ultimately paddle around the Maine Island trail area.

So, how do I start?/ THANKS IN ADVANCE// Bob

Bob:

Welcome to the club. Here are a few random thoughts by one who knows little.

If you have an interest in paddling to islands on the Maine Island Trail, then I suggest you join MITA which you can easily do as a NSPN member. Besides supporting the organization, this will give you access to much good info and the staff can be very helpful as well. Last year there were six free trips open to MITA members geared for relative beginners which visited various islands from Casco Bay to Jonesport areas. Some of the trips were camping trips and some just fun with lobster cookouts and visits to points of interest. I believe this will be done again this year. They would be a good way for you to get some seat time on the coast of Maine and to learn a bit about seamanship which is important for those types of trips.

In the ideal world you would wait until you have tried a variety of boats and paddles doing the type of paddling you will be doing to learn what suits you before you buy either. Since we don't live in an ideal world try a many boats as possible, and assume as you learn more your preferences will change and you will be changing boats and paddles as time goes by. Even in the ideal world you interests will likely change and the boats that appeal to you will change.

Very little beats just going out and messing about with whatever boat you have and getting in some seat time. Some boats and paddles are known as good for all around use and you won't go wrong with them. Just keep in mind there are many facets to kayaking and those who focus on one facet or another may have strong opinions about what makes for a good boat or paddle based the type of paddling they do. However, that gear may not be good for other facets and may or may not be suitable for you. I mentioned both boat and paddle because I believe having a good paddle is as important as having a good boat.

My suggestion would be to attend NSPN lake/skill sessions as opposed to getting lessons right away. I believe you would find them very valuable on many levels. NSPN has land workshops and I believe you would find them of value too. I also suggest start applying what you learn by going on trips sooner rather than later. And don't get caught up in the trip level ratings stuff. That does not mean don't use your head as the sea often gives the test before it provides the lesson.

Ed Lawson

[Bob Maselek]

Excellent advice-is is appreciated -- THANKS to you all// Bob

[PeterB]

Welcome!

For now, pool sessions would be a great start. One of the first things any paddler needs to know is getting out of their boat in the water: "wet exits", and generally getting comfortable in and out OF a boat in the water. and pool sessions are the perfect place to do this first. If you post in advance, ill bet somebody would be happy to have you try their boat, or bring an extra boat to a pool session for you: lots of members have more than one boat.

Check the calendar and message board postings for pool sessions.

You will need a pfd to do anything kayaking; ocean, lake, or pool. .

Its best to try out boats & equipment before buying; for most kayaks, several hours in the cockpit are needed to get a decent sense of what any boat is about. In short, hang out by the water (for now, pool sessions; when it gets warmer, lake sessions) and talk to paddlers who have been around. Kayaking, I found, is a counterintuitive sport, so learning from others , rather than trying to do the self- taught route is especially worthwhile. Also, professional instruction is definitely worth considering if time and money allow; a number of the country's best kayak instructors are in this general area.

[brambor]

If I go to a pool session I would bring a boat for you. You can pm me your sizes. If I have something that fits you You can use it in a pool.

[jdkilroy]

Welcome to NSPN Bob,

You're about to have loads of fun and adventures. Since others are already weighing in on gear and such, I will just add that while you are waiting for the weather conditions to change you should spend time getting your body ready for kayaking. Posture, flexibility, a bit of cardiovascular conditioning with a dash of muscle mass will all serve you well when it comes time to get in the boat. Work on your balance and core by doing simple things like always putting your socks and shoes on while standing. You get the idea.

See you on the water, Jon

[bob budd]

If you seek relevant conditioning info that you can do at home one good source is on Adam Bolonsky's blog

http://paddlingtravelers.blogspot.com/2006/07/stamina-smoothness-power-use-your-core.html

Many people also find yoga useful, especially if you get numbness or shooting pains in your legs on longer days once you get out paddling. Many people have few problems (with sciatica - the cause) but for those that do they can be acute and custom seats are also a common approach, but that's another thread.

[Gcosloy]

Ditto on the welcome Bob. I'll be at all three of the UNH pool sessions. If you want to come I'll be happy to put you in my boat and go over some basics like wet exits, low bracing etc. I think you don't need to pay if you show without your own boat.

[Suz]

Dear folks: Remember when you first started kayaking? I just joined and paid my dues. I am a complete novice with basically no knowledge of anything I need to know. I am reading a lot of kayaking books, but need to know how to start:

1-should I sign up for outdoor Charles River kayak lessons as soon as I can? Or, are there other lessons I should take?

2-what model boat (beginner??) should I start looking to buy?

3-should I attend NSPN pool sessions?

4-is it OK to ask if someone from NSPN would mentor me (just some advice once in a while)?

I am retired with some time on my hands and a desire to ultimately paddle around the Maine Island trail area. I am the type that wants to learn to do this properly so I have some fun and can be safe at the same time. I want to learn all the sea kayaking skills both mental and physical.

So, how do I start?/ THANKS IN ADVANCE// Bob

Welcome Bob!

For starters, I would recommend winter reading - books that instruct on kayaking but also books that show how people who love to kayak use them for expeditions. I just lent two of my favorite books out to one of my students.

- Gordon Brown's - "Sea Kayaking"

- Chris Duff - "On Celtic Tides"

Secondly, I am an instructor and encourage newbies to take instruction early rather than later. A good instructor or a good mentor can help you develop a path or plan and both should help to shorten the learning curve and allow you to meet your goals earlier.

Attending a pool session w/o a boat isn't as productive as with a boat. Some instructional programs will provide a boat for you to learn in. Seems like a few people here will provide a boat for you to use for the session which is EXTREMELY generous as it is a lot of work to bring an extra boat/pfd/paddle for someone you don't know to a pool session. As an instructor, I charge for that! (I offer pool session and also instruction at them but my instruction slots are already full, so I am not soliciting!)

As for what boat to buy, ONLY buy a boat that will suit your intended purpose which is expeditioning on open ocean. You need a boat with 2 hatches, preferably 3. Boat must have full perimeter decklines. You boat should be a minimum of 16'. Nobody here can really recommend a boat for you without knowing your height and weight AND your degree of athleticism. With those things in mind, you can probably get a good recommendation and you could probably even buy a boat without ever having paddled one. Downside there is that if you are not very athletic, you may find a more stable boat will suit initially and over time you may find that the stable boat you initially chose is not suitable long term.

Charles River has a great rental program for beginners which allows you to use any boat of their fleet for the whole season. That will definitely allow you to try a great number of boats initially to make a more informed decision. I don't know all the ins/outs of their program but do know a few people in NSPN began in this program and it worked well for them.

I think that just buying a boat would make it much easier to get started though. With that you can go anywhere to join in the skill session and to take instruction and attend day trips with NSPN.

Min. investment to get started:

boat, paddle, pfd, safety accessories (read the lists on nspn),clothing, rack for your car. Some things are available used.

Definitely plan to attend the Saturday workshop that John Huth is doing on Jan 29 - wind/waves/weather. Matter of fact, attend ANY workshops that NSPN offers this winter. Hopefully someone will put together a Navigation Workshop as that will get you started there too. If you see a navigation course offered by John Carmody of Sea Cliff Kayakers, definitely take it. He is really good at teaching navigation. Sorta good book on navigation is "Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation" by David Burch. It is good but is DRY and BORING. About time someone wrote a better book on it...

In the meantime, get a few good books (others can suggest their favorites too!) and get started.

Offer up your height/weight/athleticism and people will make some boat suggestions. Perhaps even have a few to sell you used! (I have two up for sale myself!)

Suz

[EEL]

Sorta good book on navigation is "Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation" by David Burch. It is good but is DRY and BORING. ....

In the meantime, get a few good books (others can suggest their favorites too!) and get started.

One redeeming feature of Burch's book is that it contains a very good discussion of the Rules "of the road" from a kayaker's perspective. A topic often ignored in other books.

To follow Suz's lead here are a few books I have found helpful in no particular order.

1. NOAA Chart 1 which is a booklet that provides a great deal of info on chart symbols.

2. Sea Kayaking Illustrated by John Robison. A short, whimsical and very good book with many nuggets on many subjects.

3. Sea kayak by Gordon Brown. I suppose this is one of the standard texts as they say.

4. Sea kayak Navigation by Ferrero 2d Ed. A UK perspective, but at least not a tome.

5. Sea kayaking Safety & Rescue by Lull. Much more than a book about rescue technique, it gets to the heart of what constitutes safety in paddling.

6. Onboard Weather Handbook by Tibbs. A weather book by a deep water sailor with an advanced degree in meteorology so it has a nice blend of theory and experience with focus on weather at sea.

7. Kayaking the Maine Coast by Miller, 2d ed. Loaded with information, as opposed to descriptions of specific trips, to help plan paddles anywhere on the Maine coast.

8. Sea Kayak Navigation Simplified by Moyer. It is what it says: short, simple, and practical.

9. Simple Kayak navigation by Killen. A good and not so simple book on navigation for kayakers.

While you can learn a fair bit from books on navigation and weather and find things to verify on the water about kayaking generally, reading about handling breaking waves is one thing and looking up at a wall of water topped with a light greenish translucent hue as it rushes toward you is something else . So mentoring and solid professional classes are more than helpful. Especially with all those "counterintuitive" things as Peter pointed out.

Ed Lawson

[...]

Welcome Bob!

For several months (since August 2010) I thought I was the only beginner at NSPN. It is great to have another beginner in our group. Your first great step was in joining NSPN. Read many postings, they will help you. Since August, I have been busy and perhaps understanding what I did during my first few months will be helpful.

1. Spent time and effort understanding what I wanted to do with a kayak.

2. Researched for hours what kayaks would meet my needs.

3. Spent days trying out my "short list' of 15 kayaks, paddling each.

4. Began my research on paddles, cothing and gear.

5. Learned where to find the right professional instructor for me.

6. Spent time understanding if my body would be ready for the challenge and learning what I would need to do.

7. For me, yoga was the solution so I coutinue to invest a great deal of time in my yoga practice.

8. Signed up for 15 pool practice sessions this winter using a loaner boat until my boat arrives.

9. This is where I am now on my journey which I hope will last for years.

Bob, keep a journal if you can for you will cherish the first year when you read it many years from now.

Warren

[Bob Maselek]

Welcome Bob!

For starters, I would recommend winter reading - books that instruct on kayaking but also books that show how people who love to kayak use them for expeditions. I just lent two of my favorite books out to one of my students.

- Gordon Brown's - "Sea Kayaking"

- Chris Duff - "On Celtic Tides"

Secondly, I am an instructor and encourage newbies to take instruction early rather than later. A good instructor or a good mentor can help you develop a path or plan and both should help to shorten the learning curve and allow you to meet your goals earlier.

Attending a pool session w/o a boat isn't as productive as with a boat. Some instructional programs will provide a boat for you to learn in. Seems like a few people here will provide a boat for you to use for the session which is EXTREMELY generous as it is a lot of work to bring an extra boat/pfd/paddle for someone you don't know to a pool session. As an instructor, I charge for that! (I offer pool session and also instruction at them but my instruction slots are already full, so I am not soliciting!)

As for what boat to buy, ONLY buy a boat that will suit your intended purpose which is expeditioning on open ocean. You need a boat with 2 hatches, preferably 3. Boat must have full perimeter decklines. You boat should be a minimum of 16'. Nobody here can really recommend a boat for you without knowing your height and weight AND your degree of athleticism. With those things in mind, you can probably get a good recommendation and you could probably even buy a boat without ever having paddled one. Downside there is that if you are not very athletic, you may find a more stable boat will suit initially and over time you may find that the stable boat you initially chose is not suitable long term.

Charles River has a great rental program for beginners which allows you to use any boat of their fleet for the whole season. That will definitely allow you to try a great number of boats initially to make a more informed decision. I don't know all the ins/outs of their program but do know a few people in NSPN began in this program and it worked well for them.

I think that just buying a boat would make it much easier to get started though. With that you can go anywhere to join in the skill session and to take instruction and attend day trips with NSPN.

Min. investment to get started:

boat, paddle, pfd, safety accessories (read the lists on nspn),clothing, rack for your car. Some things are available used.

Definitely plan to attend the Saturday workshop that John Huth is doing on Jan 29 - wind/waves/weather. Matter of fact, attend ANY workshops that NSPN offers this winter. Hopefully someone will put together a Navigation Workshop as that will get you started there too. If you see a navigation course offered by John Carmody of Sea Cliff Kayakers, definitely take it. He is really good at teaching navigation. Sorta good book on navigation is "Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation" by David Burch. It is good but is DRY and BORING. About time someone wrote a better book on it...

In the meantime, get a few good books (others can suggest their favorites too!) and get started.

Offer up your height/weight/athleticism and people will make some boat suggestions. Perhaps even have a few to sell you used! (I have two up for sale myself!)

Suz

Dear Suz: I will bite --Thanks for the answers/ What boats do you have for sale?. I am 6 foot+ and about 190 lbs and as you know a complete beginner.// bob

[Suz]

Dear Suz: I will bite --Thanks for the answers/ What boats do you have for sale?. I am 6 foot+ and about 190 lbs and as you know a complete beginner.// bob

Check out the classified section of this message board. I have an NDK Explorer and NDK Greenlander Pro - both are my husband's. Out of the two, the NDK Explorer might be a possible option. Surely there will be one at the pool to sit in. The original seat has already been replaced with a carved foam seat.

[Lallen]

Hello Bob,

Welcome to NSPN! If Suz's NDK Explorer doesn't work out for you, I definitely recommend the Season's Pass with Charles River Canoe & Kayak. My husband and I both got started kayaking this way and it's a great option. Relative to purchasing a kayak, it is not that expensive. You can take out any of their boats anytime they're open on the river, both plastic and glass. We found it was a really good way to get to spend a lot of time trying out various boats and figuring out what worked for us. They also had an option with the season's pass for a certain number of take-away days, i.e. where you can take the boat out on the ocean. This worked well too, because once I found a boat I liked, I was able to take it on a camping trip on the Maine Island Trail for a week to see how it suited me for that purpose. So by the time I actually purchased my first boat, I was confident it was a good choice. My husband and I both felt if we had not done the season's pass first and had the opportunity to spend a fair amount of "butt in boat" time, we would not have made nearly as informed a decision and would likely have needed to move on from the first boat more quickly. We live just a half hour away from Charles River, so that also made it really easy for us to get there after work for an hour or two, etc...

In addition, if you take an intro level class with Charles River, they allow you to come and practice in between sessions using their boats for free. So I think the first class we took was 3 weekly sessions, and we had access to their boats for that time period.

Much depends on what you are looking for, and how quickly you progress. We eased into the sport fairly gradually this way, until it became a full-fledged addiction. The only potential downside is you might not spend as much time out on the ocean without your own boat. But for us that was ok that first season and when we were ready we were very happy with the boats we ended up with.

Good luck and look forward to meeting you on the water or at a pool session!

Lorrie

[Bob Maselek]

Lorrie-- Thank you and all the others for the great advice. I am so very impressed with the responses that I have received to my original question. This is a great group of people.

I will do what you suggest. And one of the few advantages of getting "old" is that I get 15% off the rental fee.

See you on the water somewhere.// Bob

[JulieC]

Hi Bob!

Welcome!!! I am new to NSPN myself and have not really posted on here much. I too am looking forward to meeting everyone :-)

I have to agree with Lorrie about the season pass at CRCK. I had a season pass last year and was able to try out different boats throughout the season, until I found one that "fit" me. The great thing about the lessons was that they also came with practice time. I live nearby to them, so I was also able to practice during the week on calmer water after work without treks to the ocean (Where I really wanted to be!!!) when I was by myself. I took lessons and trips from them and found that through those, while Lorrie stated (to paraphrase) that they eased into gradually until it became and addiction, for me it immediately became an addiction. I am already having withdrawals!!!

I am still a level 1, maybe level 2 paddler - pool sessions and the book recommendations are how I am focusing my time this winter. That and making sure that I stay in shape for paddling season.

See you on the water :-)

Julie

[Gcosloy]

Hi Bob,

"Advise is cheap!" So here's my 2 cents worth: While Lorrie's and other's suggestions are right on and can only be helpful there is one thing to look out for. Being a newby makes it almost impossible for you to evaluate the boat that will suit you over the next few years as you gain experience and skills. Assuming you are considering only authentic seakayaks between 16 and 18 feet with a beam between 20 and 23 inches your most important choices may be made before you even get on the water: Limit your choice to boats, the volume of which, is appropriate for your weight class. The waterline of the hull is affected by total weight of the paddler plus gear. Too little weight and the performance may be tippy and prone to weathercocking, too much weight and performance becomes sluggish and turning may be more difficult. Your next consideration will be how comfortable you feel in the cockpit. Does it feel like getting into a bathtub where you can invite friends for a sleep over or are you so tight that it's difficult getting your thighs under the thigh braces. The ideal cockpit will be comfortable but not overly roomy. Think about "wearing" your kayak. A little too loose can be fixed easily by foaming out, too tight and you'll be unhappy.

Now the other stuff that you will only discover by being on the water is how the boat responds to winds and waves when you want to go straight and when you want to turn. Finally how is the stability, strong and comforting or weak and frightening. To answer these last two sentences may take you many seasons. If the boat won't go straight in a cross wind, it may not be the fault of the boat but the lack of skill of the paddler.

Actually it's not all that complicated, most boat makers want to iron out most of the kinks and have their boats perform acceptably well in all conditions. There is one area of design that can scare off many newbies and that is stability or the lack of it. There are a few boats the stability of which is so tender they belong in the hands of more advanced paddlers. (Nordkapps) However there are awesome kayaks out there that have all the stability in the world and are so great in the way they perform that they are suitable for beginners and experts. Take a serious look at the P&H Cetus series, they now come in three separate volumes. Most boats made by IMPEX, the Currituck or Force series which come in 4 different volumes. Another good choice would be the NDK Romany or Explorer based again on your size and weight. Finally, not to leave out the American's the Necky Chatham series either the 16 or 17.

[bob budd]

I'm 5'8@195 lbs and have two boats that suited me well. The best boat I have paddled was a Force IV. I also was in a Force III and liked it, but the cockpit was a bit too tight. Few who have paddled these boats have disliked them. Elsewhere a Greenland Pro was mentioned. I have never sat in a boat but I was close enough to someone on a maiden voyage with a newly acquired 'Pro to hear him scream like a girl whilst learning to deal with what is considered a relatively twitchy boat. Once he got used to the boat, however, he found it responsive and a fine ride. So take recommendations with a grain of salt and spend some time in a boat you plan to purchase if possible. The CRCK thing sounds like a great deal, if you are close enough to really work the selection.

[Gcosloy]

"to hear him scream like a girl..."

Was the paddler a counter tenor or did he accidentally sit astride his bilge pump?

[Doug]

Hi Bob,

A quick plug on the boat I just posted for sale.

I have a 2 year old P&H Cetus for $2050. This boat is considered by many to be one of the best boats for beginners to experts. It also fits your weight category.

Research it on the internet and paddling.net. http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=2124

I can think of 10-15 members of our club that have purchased the Cetus in the past couple of years.

I do have a thread in the "Classifieds for Individuals" forum of our message board if you want to see pics.

The reason I am selling is to purchase my 3d P&H Cetus.

Although it is true that you should sit in and demo many boats, I guarantee you that whatever you purchase for your first boat, it will not be your last.

A used boat is a good way to start before shelling out $3400-$4200 on something new.

How was that for a sales pitch? I'm bad....

Doug