Surfing question

[Gcosloy]

I'm new to the surfing game and would like some advise or an opinion. Surfing at the bowl at Seabrook last evening I dumped or wiped out several times all under similar circumstances. When I catch a wave or a wave catches me and I turn off the wave before it breaks there is no problem. If I extend the ride while the wave breaks and try to turn off the white stuff sometimes I'm quickly hit beam side by the next breaker. As I try to low brace and edge into the stuff, if its 3 feet high my low brace seems awkward and I never get a chance to edge into it much; the result being an abrupt capsize. If the second breaker is a bit lower I can usually save it with the low brace and quickly bracing on the other side after the white stuff gets under me. Should I be high bracing under these situations or doing something else? I don't know whether this is an issue peculiar to the bowl where the wave periods are rather short and because of the contour of the bottom, waves can break in one area and then reform to roll again. If this is simply the price of surfing then so be it, but I'd like to learn from my experience and would welcome some words of wisdom from others in the sport.

[Phil Allen]

Gene- do you know if you're capsizing towards the beach or into the foam pile?

Phil

[Gcosloy]

Gene- do you know if you're capsizing towards the beach or into the foam pile?

Phil

Pretty sure it's beach side.

[rick stoehrer]

I'm new to the surfing game and would like some advise or an opinion. Surfing at the bowl at Seabrook last evening I dumped or wiped out several times all under similar circumstances. When I catch a wave or a wave catches me and I turn off the wave before it breaks there is no problem. If I extend the ride while the wave breaks and try to turn off the white stuff sometimes I'm quickly hit beam side by the next breaker. As I try to low brace and edge into the stuff, if its 3 feet high my low brace seems awkward and I never get a chance to edge into it much; the result being an abrupt capsize. If the second breaker is a bit lower I can usually save it with the low brace and quickly bracing on the other side after the white stuff gets under me. Should I be high bracing under these situations or doing something else? I don't know whether this is an issue peculiar to the bowl where the wave periods are rather short and because of the contour of the bottom, waves can break in one area and then reform to roll again. If this is simply the price of surfing then so be it, but I'd like to learn from my experience and would welcome some words of wisdom from others in the sport.

...so if i understand you correctly, your low brace into these waves isn't committed enough and your getting window shaded (rolled away from the wave face) - is that right? if not, they you are getting rolled toward the wave face.

depending on which way you are capsizing it sounds like one of two things are happening and both pertain to edge, commitment/weighing on the paddle.

if window shading then you aren't committing enough to the edge (towards the wave) of the boat and putting your weight into the paddle and onto the water and as a result, in you go. that breaking wave face has tremendous lift and you need to lean into it in order to stay dry side up.

if capsizing towards the breaking wave face then you aren't releasing that edge, commitment and weight from the wave face as the force diminishes under you. while the wave gives you tremendous lift, it does diminish and you need to time bringing yourself back over the center of your boat as the force passes.

as far as when to low vs high brace...i don't know that there is a specific metric for when your low brace is abandoned in favor of a high brace (...if the wave is 1.45 meters, then...) and generally i size it up instinctively...if i can reach down to it easilly with my low brace, then low brace it is...if i can just stick the paddle out and (thunk), there's the water, high brace baby. the high brace can be brought down into a low and vice versa as the need arises.

play safe, where a lid.

have fun.

[tyson]

If the wave window-shaded you, then you could have leaned on it harder. Rolling over into the wave doesn't happen very often and you might be surprised how much you can commit to edging into the wave.

I "always" use a low brace, except perhaps there are times that I instinctively change to a high brace. ...but pretty much always a low brace.

When the wave it letting you go, if you feel that the brace is starting to sink, add a bit of sculling to brace. It will hold you up.

If you really commit to edging into the wave and putting your paddle deep into the solid "green" water (not on the top or in the white) you should be able to take a wave that is well over your head and remain upright.

...and yeah... what Rick said.

[rick stoehrer]

...if capsizing towards the breaking wave face then you aren't releasing that edge, commitment and weight from the wave face as the force diminishes under you. while the wave gives you tremendous lift, it does diminish and you need to time bringing yourself back over the center of your boat as the force passes.

oops...that oughta read...AWAY from the breaking wave face. sorry for any confusion.

[EEL]

oops...that oughta read...AWAY from the breaking wave face.

Are you sure you weren't right the first time? If you keep leaning far into the wave when it eases don't you simply fall into what remains of the wave? Seems like the amount of lean is based on the "Three Bears" test. Not that I know much about it, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...sometime..I think.

Ed Lawson

[Deb Millar]

I agree totally with what Rick S and Tyson so aptly said, with especial emphasis on a low, sculling brace to hold you up when things seem to be heading downward fast.

I'm a very big fan of the low brace as it puts less stress on your body when done properly. It's worked for me in some fairly gnarly situations when fellow paddlers thought I was upside down but, in fact, had braced and then remained upright for the whole ride.

It's also failed and I was washing sand out of my hair for a week.

While the high brace is very helpful, it can be potentially damaging to your body unless you really know how to use it properly. I've seen too many pictures of even experienced surfers using it with their arms way out into the wave. This position alone can lead to such delights as a shoulder dislocation and a few months of PT.

Hopefully, you know how to execute a high brace properly. If you're unsure and also don't want to harm yourself, learn how from an experienced paddler or sign yourself up for a few lessons with an instructor.

Deb M

[JohnHuth]

Just to emphasize - the low brace can be used in waves that at first you think would be way to high for one, but they work well. The high brace can get you a dislocated shoulder.

What I find is that I'll be surfing with a stern rudder to keep me on track and then I start to yaw.

The trick, I've found, is that when you start to yaw, go to the low brace sooner than you think is necessary. There's a tendency to hold the rudder for too long, and then the yawing motion gets converted into a roll and you're over.

You might want to practice sideways surf landings using a low brace, it's good practice and will give you more of a feel for how much weight to put on the paddle, how much edging to use.

[Gcosloy]

I agree totally with what Rick S and Tyson so aptly said, with especial emphasis on a low, sculling brace to hold you up when things seem to be heading downward fast.

I'm a very big fan of the low brace as it puts less stress on your body when done properly. It's worked for me in some fairly gnarly situations when fellow paddlers thought I was upside down but, in fact, had braced and then remained upright for the whole ride.

It's also failed and I was washing sand out of my hair for a week.

While the high brace is very helpful, it can be potentially damaging to your body unless you really know how to use it properly. I've seen too many pictures of even experienced surfers using it with their arms way out into the wave. This position alone can lead to such delights as a shoulder dislocation and a few months of PT.

Hopefully, you know how to execute a high brace properly. If you're unsure and also don't want to harm yourself, learn how from an experienced paddler or sign yourself up for a few lessons with an instructor.

Deb M

Yes, I do know how to high brace. Elbows pointing downwards, cocked arm tight against body. The way I do a high brace perhaps should be labeled a "medium brace". I am very aware of the shoulder issue and for that reason have never employed it save in practice or doing a sweep roll. The only reason I elicited opinion on the high brace was that once I was able to respond with the low brace it was already too late to fully commit to the lean or even to get the paddle into the green water. My only option at that point seemed to be on top of the breaking stuff with the paddle almost at shoulder height, obviously without a lot of force or weight in that awkward position, hence the thought; would a high brace be effective in that circumstance? Or, does one attempt to slice the blade below the foam? Another thought!

[rick stoehrer]

Are you sure you weren't right the first time? If you keep leaning far into the wave when it eases don't you simply fall into what remains of the wave? Seems like the amount of lean is based on the "Three Bears" test. Not that I know much about it, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...sometime..I think.

Ed Lawson

hmmn...i think i oughta concentrate on work while at work and leave this posting stuff to later in the day.

you're right ed...i pulled the ole double whammy reverse-around-a-rooni, read what i posted but only partly error. oldest trick in the book (he says in his best maxwell smart voice)

to clarify...

if you COLLAPSE TOWARD the wave, you aren't releasing the edge as the wave passes under you.

if you CAPSIZE AWAY from the wave, you aren't committing to the edge and the paddle.

you'd never know i actually know what the hell i'm talking about, huh?

i'll try to make it to next tuesday at the beach

...and now back to the regularly scheduled working program.

[tyson]

... once I was able to respond with the low brace it was already too late to fully commit to the lean or even to get the paddle into the green water.

I find this comment odd. What does it mean that you can't edge and/or can't get the paddle into the water?

If there is too much force on the paddle to drive it into the water, then there sure as heck is enough force there to provide support. If you "can't edge", then that means that the water is providing enough support with little or no paddle.

I wonder if it isn't a case of this action just not feeling familiar to you? The best thing I ever did for my surf zone skills was to spend some time playing in the soup zone with my boat sideways to the waves. Slowly work your way out further into the waves as you feel comfortable with paddling and edging in that environment.

When a big wave hits you, throw yourself into it with confidence. Dive into it! It WILL support you!

Bring the paddle across the deck and into the water as able and needed. You don't need to lead with the paddle.

[EEL]

The best thing I ever did for my surf zone skills was to spend some time playing in the soup zone with my boat sideways to the waves. Slowly work your way out further into the waves as you feel comfortable with paddling and edging in that environment.

Bingo!

Ed Lawson

[spider]

Though I haven't done as much surfing as some I have had a number of times "sideways surfing". That's when you brace for all your worth into the breaking wave foam etc.

Those are the bouncy-est rides I've ever gotten, you go like hell but it's like riding on a washboard road, and of course if you hang in there to the bitter end it will spit you up onto the beach.

For bracing in general in surf I remember one video had the catch phrase

"cheeks to the beach"

It brings a smile and is easy to remember....

[tyson]

"cheeks to the beach"

[jtmllr]

Hi Gene,

I started surfing last year and didn't really get the hang of it. This year I have a new boat and it isn't nearly as forgiving and I also tend to broach more often. When I do I was having trouble working through the bracing and staying upright. I would often fall over the wave since the boat has less stability than my old one and I can't just lean into it with all my worth anymore. Technique is key in this boat. As such I was apprehensive about picking good waves since I was sure I'd dump and that gets tiring after a few times. So, a few Tuesdays ago I just spent time in the breaking zone sideways and practiced getting hammered for awhile. I just took the waves sideways while I was already prepared for it and rode in that way with bracing. The repeated exposure helped me concentrate on bracing properly and now I can go back to learning to surf. I have developed a bit of instinct by way of reflexes and that's infinitely helpful. Due to my lack of proficiency I don't tell people how to do anything but I do know it is helpful to take each boat out and get the feel for it since they are different. Getting the knack of handling what happens when a surf run goes badly helps me concentrate on practicing good runs. Confidence and comfort is a big part of succeeding. "Sacrificing" a surf day and taking my licks allowed me to move on faster. Now to nail the roll in breaking surf zones...

Jeff

[djlewis]

Pretty sure it's beach side.

I'd have to watch to be sure, but from what you say, you might simply be late with your lean into the wave and brace -- you have to anticipate a bit; can't wait for it to hit you or you're toast almost no matter how hard you lean and brace, high or low.

Try playing with that timing a bit. At first you may find yourself falling and even capsizing toward the wave, but eventually you'll dial in an instinct for the right timing. Actually, for smallish waves, you need not even lean enough to capsize into it if you are early. But do get a fair lean going ~before~ it hits. Then when it hits, you can lean even more and you'll have the support you need. Also, when you get the timing right, you can more often do with a low brace; good to avoid a high one if you can.

--David.

[NPSheehan]

I always keep in mind what a good kayak surfing friend told me when starting to kayak surf.

MOON THE BEACH!!

Keeping your BUM pointed at the beach keeps your edge towards the wave. I find it also very helpful to keep my eyes on the wave and not the beach when doing a low brace while side surfing towards shore. Once you drop your but or look towards the beach over you may go.

Have Fun!

Neil

[Gcosloy]

Thanks to all for the tips. I plan to hang out in the foam zone and try to anticipate a bit early. One reason I may have been getting hammered is that I haven't been surfing with a stern rudder, just racing down the wave front paddling like crazy, so when the boat starts to broach I don't have a blade in the water to start the brace. I really don't want it to appear worse than it is, after all 3 window shades over 20 runs isn't a disaster. Now if I can only remember what I did on the other 17?

[tyson]

3 out of 20 is just barely having fun!

[subaruguru]

Thanks to all for the tips. I plan to hang out in the foam zone and try to anticipate a bit early. One reason I may have been getting hammered is that I haven't been surfing with a stern rudder, just racing down the wave front paddling like crazy, so when the boat starts to broach I don't have a blade in the water to start the brace. I really don't want it to appear worse than it is, after all 3 window shades over 20 runs isn't a disaster. Now if I can only remember what I did on the other 17?

Hey Gene,

Thought you might want to emulate this guy's bracing:

Ern