tow line 'biner

[rick stoehrer]

how do the rest of you have your tow line 'biner attached to your tow line?

the challenge is to rig it in such a way that if you're pulling an assisted tow to get the 'biner to flow freely under the deck line of the assistant...the way i rig an asissted tow (fairly standard..or was..maybe it's changed?) is to run the line beneath the forward deck line of the assist and then clip into the forward deck line of the victim...this way when they are under tow, the bows are drawn together AND then later if the assist wants to get out of the lineup, he/she can pull themselves forward and unclip the 'biner from the victim and then the husky pulling the tow paddles forward and the 'biner is supposed to just pull free from under the assistants deckline BUT....occassionally it will get hung up.

some folks have their floats too far forward close to the 'biner and that gets hung up (when i used one, i had it about 4' back of the 'biner...finally i just took it off) other times i've seen the knot holding the 'biner to the tow line get hung up under there and then i've seen some folks that have a handy piece of climbers webbing that holds the 'biner to the tow line seen that actually flip OVER the deckline and get fouled.

so...how do YOU attach your 'biner to YOUR tow line and what advantages/disadvantages have you had with the way it's rigged?

i just rigged mine with a couple of hog rings and shrink wrap to minimize the profile at the 'biner end of it and will practice towing/releasing it tonight in a class on a lake before i take it out and may HAVE to use it....figure i may have to review, replace those hog rings once a season or so but i guess i'll see....

so whaddya do?

and before we head off down that attaching the 'biner amidship thing...i tried it...the bows aren't as controlled as they are when you run and attach through the deckline at the bows....if you run it amidship the assistant HAS to try to control the bows as opposed to letting the tension on the line provided by the tow control the bow....for fast, fast fine...attach it wherever you like, just move the boats but for any distance towing, i'll stick with the standard til someone can show me something better.

[Gillian]

okay okay, now please, what is a HOG RING AND WHERE CAN I GET ONE IMMEDIATELY

[Kevin B (RPS Coach)]

okay okay, now please, what is a HOG RING AND WHERE CAN I GET ONE IMMEDIATELY

oh boy, G's in rare form today

[risingsn]

how do the rest of you have your tow line 'biner attached to your tow line?

the challenge is to rig it in such a way that if you're pulling an assisted tow to get the 'biner to flow freely under the deck line of the assistant...the way i rig an asissted tow (fairly standard..or was..maybe it's changed?) is to run the line beneath the forward deck line of the assist and then clip into the forward deck line of the victim...this way when they are under tow, the bows are drawn together AND then later if the assist wants to get out of the lineup, he/she can pull themselves forward and unclip the 'biner from the victim and then the husky pulling the tow paddles forward and the 'biner is supposed to just pull free from under the assistants deckline BUT....occassionally it will get hung up.

some folks have their floats too far forward close to the 'biner and that gets hung up (when i used one, i had it about 4' back of the 'biner...finally i just took it off) other times i've seen the knot holding the 'biner to the tow line get hung up under there and then i've seen some folks that have a handy piece of climbers webbing that holds the 'biner to the tow line seen that actually flip OVER the deckline and get fouled.

so...how do YOU attach your 'biner to YOUR tow line and what advantages/disadvantages have you had with the way it's rigged?

i just rigged mine with a couple of hog rings and shrink wrap to minimize the profile at the 'biner end of it and will practice towing/releasing it tonight in a class on a lake before i take it out and may HAVE to use it....figure i may have to review, replace those hog rings once a season or so but i guess i'll see....

so whaddya do?

and before we head off down that attaching the 'biner amidship thing...i tried it...the bows aren't as controlled as they are when you run and attach through the deckline at the bows....if you run it amidship the assistant HAS to try to control the bows as opposed to letting the tension on the line provided by the tow control the bow....for fast, fast fine...attach it wherever you like, just move the boats but for any distance towing, i'll stick with the standard til someone can show me something better.

Hi Rick, Good question. My biner is attached to the line w/ a bow line & it does get stuck @ times.. If you have SS hog rings they shouldn't need to be replaced. My old NDK tow belt used hog rings to attach the line to the bungie. The only problem I problem I had was that the rings they used were steel & rusted. I replaced them w/ SS rings & they have been good ever since. I think that your idea od attaching the line to the binner w/ hog ringd & shrink tubing sounds very interesting. I look forward to hearing the result.

[jason]

okay okay, now please, what is a HOG RING AND WHERE CAN I GET ONE IMMEDIATELY

http://www.westernwireprod.com/fastcontent/hogrings.html

[risingsn]

http://www.westernwireprod.com/fastcontent/hogrings.html

West Marine carries SS hog rings

[rick stoehrer]

okay okay, now please, what is a HOG RING AND WHERE CAN I GET ONE IMMEDIATELY

the ones i use i got at west marine.

others may use a different product purchased at different retailers...this may not be a good application and certainly you wanna be careful what you're clamping, where.

i think if you just remember this little rhyme, it'll be easy to differentiate....one you can use with a tow and the other you use with a....well, moving along.

it is an unfortunate name, isn't it?

[JohnHuth]

You're miles ahead of me on this one, and it sounds like you've hit upon a pretty good solution - but it seems that, given the circumstances, the only thing to do is to make the transition to the biner as smooth as possible.

Not something I've done, but now that I think of it, I might give it a try and report back: use some whipping around the transition to the biner (whether it's a knot or a ...hog ring?) and coat the whipping with marine epoxy. That might make it less bumpy than than shrink tubing solution. It makes surgery on the rig more difficult, but it might be more durable and less likely to foul.

[great_blue]

I've used a buntline hitch on a couple of tows; it's fairly low profile and doesn't seem to loosen over time. I have yet to test my new towline that has thicker rope and see if it's still OK.

Jon

[rick stoehrer]

You're miles ahead of me on this one, and it sounds like you've hit upon a pretty good solution - but it seems that, given the circumstances, the only thing to do is to make the transition to the biner as smooth as possible.

Not something I've done, but now that I think of it, I might give it a try and report back: use some whipping around the transition to the biner (whether it's a knot or a ...hog ring?) and coat the whipping with marine epoxy. That might make it less bumpy than than shrink tubing solution. It makes surgery on the rig more difficult, but it might be more durable and less likely to foul.

the hog ring/shrink tubing DOES present a smaller possible obstruction to catch on deckline than the knot/hitch i had been using BUT in prelim testing last night on the lake, it was the piece of line in the single hitch going around the 'biner that got caught under the deckline and the hog ring/tubing thing worked quite well.

it seems to me that almost anything is going to get caught up under there....the deckline is going under/into that bow rdf and space gets to be a premium quickly with lots of possibilities for snags.

in separate discussion with someone whose judgement even i would defer to (shocking, i know) agrees that while clearing this line quickly/cleanly is the trained to standard it has not been an issue in his real life experience. mine either...just trying to see if anyone has come up with good way to skin this cat!

so maybe there really is just no way to make sure that sucker comes out cleanly or maybe there is....for now, i'll stick with what i have rigged and see how it works out longer term.

thanks for all the differnent thoughts/opinions! keep em coming if someone has come up with something different!

[EEL]

the ones i use i got at west marine.

So can you use a normal hog ring ringer/plier with the SS ones from a marine supply store?

Hog rings are to prevent hogs from rooting about too much as opposed to something to direct them. That said, they are used in many other applications and this one sounds like another.

As to making a smaller, less likely it hang up connector; a splice is the classic old salt technique, but rope would need to be "spliceable" which I think most tow ropes supplied in ready made units would be.

Ed Lawson

Who has lots of hog rings and a ringer.

[spuglisi]

So can you use a normal hog ring ringer/plier with the SS ones from a marine supply store?

Hog rings are to prevent hogs from rooting about too much as opposed to something to direct them. That said, they are used in many other applications and this one sounds like another.

As to making a smaller, less likely it hang up connector; a splice is the classic old salt technique, but rope would need to be "spliceable" which I think most tow ropes supplied in ready made units would be.

Ed Lawson

Who has lots of hog rings and a ringer.

300 series (non-magnetic/rustfree) SS is more mallable than common steel so I wouldn't imagine that you'd need special tools

[EEL]

300 series (non-magnetic/rustfree) SS is more mallable than common steel so I wouldn't imagine that you'd need special tools

Actually using a ringer or hog ring pliers makes pinching them down much easier than with ordinary pliers. Trying to pinch down few dozen hog rings made a believer out of me.

Even the high class ones don't cost much and the ones in a farm supply house are even less.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,23943.html

Ed lawson

[rick stoehrer]

Actually using a ringer or hog ring pliers makes pinching them down much easier than with ordinary pliers. Trying to pinch down few dozen hog rings made a believer out of me.

Even the high class ones don't cost much and the ones in a farm supply house are even less.

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,23943.html

Ed lawson

get the specific plier if you're going to use these things...with regular pliers i pinched my fingers, the rings went flying off at great speed....and then with the specialized pliers? i pinched my fingers, the rings went flying off at great speed....only less so than with the regular pliers.

[spuglisi]

get the specific plier if you're going to use these things...with regular pliers i pinched my fingers, the rings went flying off at great speed....and then with the specialized pliers? i pinched my fingers, the rings went flying off at great speed....only less so than with the regular pliers.

I definitly agree with using job specific tools for just about any task. I just meant that I didn't think you'd need a different tool for stainless vs. plain steel

[EEL]

Thanks for the informative thread/topic. Caused me to look a bit more closely at a few bits of gear and to retie a thing or two.

Ed Lawson

[risingsn]

I've used a buntline hitch on a couple of tows; it's fairly low profile and doesn't seem to loosen over time. I have yet to test my new towline that has thicker rope and see if it's still OK.

Jon

Jon, I tried your link to the buntline hitch but it gave me an error message. Is it just operator malfuntion on my part?

[Nick Schade]

how do the rest of you have your tow line 'biner attached to your tow line?

Probably the smoothest transition would be achieved with an eye splice.

[great_blue]

risingsn,

Sorry about that. How about this:

http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/ex...ine_Hitch.shtml

Jon

[risingsn]

risingsn,

Sorry about that. How about this:

http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/ex...ine_Hitch.shtml

Jon

Jon, That's super, I appreciate it. I also like the biner in the photo since it will not allow the line to slip out of the gate.

[Phil Allen]

At a refresher course last weekend, both John Carmody and Todd Wright (instructors) had added short climbing "quickdraws" to their rescue 'biners. In climbing, quickdraws are used between two carabiners to reduce the angle of pull during a fall, so even though they're webbing, they're rated to several hundred pounds. The benefit seemed to be to separate the knot from the 'biner end and decrease the probability of jamming under the deck lines. They're cheap (3-5$) and come in different lenghts (4", 6" and 11"). I've added them to my tow system, but haven't tested them yet.

Phil

[gyork]

Phil, Rick, others-a pic or 2 of your personal set-up might enhance the discussion of hog rings, shrink tubing and "quickdraws", if you are able. Thanks.

Gary

[EEL]

At a refresher course last weekend, both John Carmody and Todd Wright (instructors) had added short climbing "quickdraws" to their rescue 'biners.

They tying the belt tow rope to one end of the quickdraw and attaching the biner to the other end on the quick draw? Have I got that right?

Ed Lawson

[spuglisi]

Phil, Rick, others-a pic or 2 might enhance the discussion of hog rings, shrink tubing and "quickdraws", if you are able. Thanks.

Gary

Here's what they look like. http://www.rei.com/product/751532#

[rick stoehrer]

Phil, Rick, others-a pic or 2 of your personal set-up might enhance the discussion of hog rings, shrink tubing and "quickdraws", if you are able. Thanks.

Gary

Gary,

i am one small, shuffling step beyond "luddite" in my technical prowess. if it's so unbelievably easy that even a 40 yo (note, not a child...they're frickin' einsteins with these things!) can do it, i will.

otherwise i'm at lake gardner every wednesday and on the water every weekend!