Giving back to the sport

[leong]

. I understand a committee has been formed to analyze its pros and cons and although it can be viewed, it has been put on hold and accepts no new members for now.

Am I the only one who doesn't see where to view meetup?

[cfolster]

Despite the feet of snow in my yard and ice on the lakes, I know warmer weather is on the way as the surest sign of Spring has just arrived. The annual NSPN discussion about the lack or not of posted trips as well as the angst over who does or does not post trips and how to remedy perceived problems of both.

Ed Lawson

The Devil made me do it

Ed, this made me laugh, because it's so true. The club continually struggles with this issue - but at least we are trying! :-)

Am I the only one who doesn't see where to view meetup?

If you search on google for meetup and then type in North Shore Paddlers Network to find it - you'll see the Meetup Site. As mentioned it is frozen right now to additional members until we determine if it's right for NSPN and the best way to implement.

If folks want to discuss this topic in more detail, I encourage them to take the discussion to the NSPN business forum.

[prudenceb]

I must be looking in the wrong place - where were these 45 trips posted? Are they in 'Trips/NSPN Events' or do I need to look elsewhere?

To answer another question, I'd like to introduce more paddlers to the sport. it seems there are adequate paddling trips for L2+ folks, but there seems to be (IMHO) an entry gap between novices with no skills and equipment and the level commonly seen at club trips.

Also, I wonder if it makes sense to set up some sort of a collaboration between clubs, say AMC, NSPN, Wild Turkeys, RICKA, etc? I kind of seeing the AMC as helping people with that first step and ten vectoring them to clubs such as NSPN. RICKA already does this quite well with AMC Narra. bay chapter. My current plan is to try to expand AMC entry level/novice instruction and try to help and encourage them to become L2 paddlers.

Josko, I just went and checked the Trips/NSPN Events forum as Rob did and quick count yielded 43 trips posted. Some of these may not have happened for weather or low interest reasons. But around 45 trips is hardly nothing - and ranged from March to November, rock play to lakes, L2+ to insanity (Easter Bunny Plunge after last years very cold winter). There were also various on- land workshops.

pru

[billvoss]

The BCU was created around local paddling clubs and bringing new people up into the sport. It's not about restricting learning, far from it.

I certainly agree that BCU promotes the sport, and promotes learning. Though like any large multinational organization that has been established for awhile, it has some bureaucratic aspects. It seems to work best for the paddler who starts with BCU as a beginner, and works their way through the stars one step at a time under BCU certified coaches to learn kayaking the BCU way. However, a BCU 4* Sea trying to teach an advanced kayaking course which BCU thinks requires a BCU 4* Coach instructor is likely to receive nasty-grams from local coaches complaining I'm coaching above my certification.

There are other non-certification based learning paths available. For example the non-commercial pass-it-forward approach I tend to encounter in Greenland roll mentoring, and AMC instructional events. In that context anyone can try to teach anything, which is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. Sometimes you get great instruction, and sometimes you encounter someone who doesn't know as much as they think they do.

Both commercial and non-commercial approaches have advantages and disadvantages. I'm glad both exist.

[billvoss]

Also, I wonder if it makes sense to set up some sort of a collaboration between clubs, say AMC, NSPN, Wild Turkeys, RICKA, etc? I kind of seeing the AMC as helping people with that first step and ten vectoring them to clubs such as NSPN. RICKA already does this quite well with AMC Narra. bay chapter. My current plan is to try to expand AMC entry level/novice instruction and try to help and encourage them to become L2 paddlers.

Back when I was more active posting AMC trips, NSPN did clarify that it was fine for an NSPN member to cross post an AMC trip to the NSPN forum. Just identify it as an AMC trip in your posting. NSPN members who are also meetup organizers sometimes cross post their meetup trips to the NSPN forum as well. Cross-pollination between kayak groups tends to be a good thing.

I consider cross posting especially useful for two kinds of trips. Advanced trips where the AMC listing is not drawing enough interest to run the trip (you need 3 to sea). It can also be useful if you are running an intro AMC trip and find you are too heavy with novices. You could post to the NSPN forum asking for some experienced help to come along as "support" or "safety boaters" as they are called on the white water side.

I wish you luck bringing more people into the sport. If that is what you currently enjoy doing, it is an excellent way to give back to the sport.

[Deb Millar]

I certainly agree that BCU promotes the sport, and promotes learning. Though like any large multinational organization that has been established for awhile, it has some bureaucratic aspects. It seems to work best for the paddler who starts with BCU as a beginner, and works their way through the stars one step at a time under BCU certified coaches to learn kayaking the BCU way. However, a BCU 4* Sea trying to teach an advanced kayaking course which BCU thinks requires a BCU 4* Coach instructor is likely to receive nasty-grams from local coaches complaining I'm coaching above my certification.

There are other non-certification based learning paths available. For example the non-commercial pass-it-forward approach I tend to encounter in Greenland roll mentoring, and AMC instructional events. In that context anyone can try to teach anything, which is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. Sometimes you get great instruction, and sometimes you encounter someone who doesn't know as much as they think they do.

Both commercial and non-commercial approaches have advantages and disadvantages. I'm glad both exist.

Bill, just to qualify the concept of the BCU Star Awards and the BCU Coaching Awards, which are two different things but the latter is dependent on the former.

The Star awards, which range from 1* - 5*, are given on the basis of paddling expertise or ability, as defined by BCU guidelines, which are pretty straightforward and understandable.

The Coaching awards are termed by levels. While one needs a certain star to coach at each level, which makes sense, there is no such animal as a BCU 4 STAR coach. There are 4 LEVEL 5 BCU coaches in the States, with a few level 3&4's who obtained their certifications under the "old" BCU scheme.

I know, it is confusing. It wasn't much clearer, either, under the old BCU scheme as to who could become a coach depending on their star level.For example, if you had passed the "old" 3*, which was strictly strokes on flat water (and not all that easy, either), you were then qualified to do Coach 2 training and assess for Coach 2. If you passed your 4*, which did not at the time involve leadership but did involve paddling in the same conditions as the new 4*, and had Coach 2, you qualified for training as a Coach 3, and so on up the coach/star line. Attaining Coach 5 was a long and intense process, with, admittedly a strong award bias towards UK paddlers.

This has all changed under the new BCU coaching/paddling award scheme, which is, perhaps, more confusing (I've yet to fully understand it and I've done Coach 2 training under the "old" scheme.) but follows somewhat the same path.

The ACA has adopted many of the same criteria as the BCU, but it's a lot easier to understand how it works.

Hope this helps.

Deb

Edited March 24, 2015 by Deb M

[rfolster]

I'd like to introduce more paddlers to the sport. it seems there are adequate paddling trips for L2+ folks, but there seems to be (IMHO) an entry gap between novices with no skills and equipment and the level commonly seen at club trips.

This is an excellent observation, and I agree that there is a gap between novices with no skills and equipment and the level commonly seen at club trips. This is yet another topic that committed members (in more ways than one!) angst over time and time again. One issue we struggle with is the overwhelming sense of safety that NSPN has come to be synonymous with. It is quite easy to have an "L1" trip on a calm lake or flat river, but it is nearly impossible to do it on the ocean within the safety standards that we strive so hard for. Just trying to deal with water temperatures without a drysuit cuts down the trip possibilities to maybe two months over the summer, and no further north than Casco Bay at best.

A second issue with introducing paddlers to the sport comes back to the fine line of mentoring and coaching. As we have been discussing, BCU is clear that it's personal and leadership awards are not coaching awards, but only a recognition that an individual possesses a certain set of skills to ensure their own level of safety (1*-3*) and the safety of others (4*-5*). This is not only true for BCU, but also with the ACA system. If you are assessed at a particular personal skill level within the ACA, you are not deemed qualified to coach someone. You must go through an instructor development workshop (IDW) and pass an instructor certification exam (ICE) before officially coaching another paddler. I for one wholeheartedly believe that novice paddlers should seek the knowledge and training of a certified coach who not only has the skills to perform the tasks, but has also learned how to transfer that knowledge to someone else. These new paddlers can then come with us and we can help them develop what they have learned. That is where I see the difference between coaching and mentoring.

As an example, when we hold the New To Sea Kayaking Workshop, our goal of introducing people to the sport isn't about the skills necessary to paddle on the ocean, but more about the equipment needed and an attitude towards safety. We hold a pool session afterwords to allow them to sit in a kayak (many never have before), see what it is like to wear and remove a spray skirt, and how they might get themselves back into a boat if they should need to wet exit. All of this gives them an idea of what to expect if they really want to get into sea kayaking. From there, they should seek out professional training to develop the skills needed (forward stroke, bracing, etc) to join in on ocean-bound trips, where we can then reinforce the training they already received.

I'm sorry for being so verbose, and apologize if anyone feels that I am a little (or a lot) overbearing about all of this. I would prefer to call it passion. Warren and others have taken my statement about the number of trip initiators as a personal challenge, but I didn't mean it as an accusation. I just wanted to make a point that there seems to be some reluctance to post trips, and I only hope that my comment will have a positive result. I don't claim to be the most prolific trip initiator - far from it! But I want to encourage people to get involved: post trips even if they don't want to be a trip leader, join the Board of Directors or the Membership Committee, volunteer at any of the outreach workshops we do each year or start a new one. I love the fact that Josko is not just asking how he can give back to the sport, but he already is giving back and he wants to know how to do MORE! Kudos!

[rick stoehrer]

josko -

it is kind of you to offer leading / mentoring / guiding opportunities within the various clubs to which you belong. it is the basis of the clubs - it's kind of how they work. as long as you are within the framework of whatever restrictions / caveats the clubs have in place, then i strongly feel you should be free to offer them as you see fit.

regarding your receiving nasty grams from local coaches about trips you were running....i would like to think i've misunderstood you and that there is something i am missing here - it wouldn't be the first time.

as i understand what you've said, it is REALLY disturbing to think that a local for hire coach would do that. especially where some of these coaches have endorsements to assess/certify you as you progress along whatever structured learning path you choose (bcu or aca) and are in positions where they could prohibit your growth within those structures if they were feeling less than completely objective. to make you feel that if you don't do as they say that getting that next endorsement you need was going to be a challenge beyond just a demonstration of the skills required by the aca or bcu syllabus. it puts you in a position where you need to either comply or feel that you need to travel beyond the local region to train / assess with a different coach in order to proceed. which kind of puts you in a disadvantaged position and certainly does the sport and the organization which those coaches represent, no favors.

that kind of restrictive action sure does the local clubs and the sport a huge disservice.

any response you had short of TAKE A HIKE JERK was really restrained.

[josko]

AMC Boston chapter intends to set up a Sea Kayaking school, intended for people with an interest in sea kayaking and taking them to the point where they can take L2 trips by themselves or with local clubs. The school will be modeled on the AMC Backpacking, Winter backpacking and Rock climbing schools which are a huge success with similar aims - to get a novice to the point where they can safely pursue the sport. The format is probably ~2 lectures (at Joy street) followed by ~6-8 trips with increasing demands. We're hoping to work with local outfitter(s) to work out rentals until folks decide whether and what boat and equipment to buy. The goal is to get them to a point where they can sign up for a club SK trip and not be vetted out.

Since I proposed this, I get to head it up and have a year to set up a curriculum and logistics. I'd welcome all input, and wish me luck.

Edited March 26, 2015 by josko

[billvoss]

I wish you luck Josko!

[Doug]

As do I Josko. That's a grand project.

Doug

[Tim Motte]

I don't want you to get carried away Rick. You won't hear this from me often, but your post above is truly insightful, accurate and to the point.

[spider]

I didn't realize at 1st this thread was only for sea kayaking, but thought I would post this anyway.

http://www.pinetreesociety.org/paddle.asp

This would be more how we could help others in general...

[rick stoehrer]

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[Pintail]

I promise to post some moonlight trips again this summer: apologies for not having done so last season.