Jump to content
NSPN Message Board
mattgeb84

winter kayaking problems

Recommended Posts

so i went out and bought all the gear kokatat expedition drysuit, whites mk2 undergarment, rei polypro heavy thermals, gloves, boots, you name it, unfortunately my kayak seems less prepared for the winter than I am.

i have to store it outside and have run into some problems

when winter kayaking how do i

1) wash the salt water off my kayak without it freezing

2) prevent the rudder and cables from freezing when im on the water and later when washing it off with fresh water

last saturday on a freezing day i took my kayak off the rack to prepare for a day of kayaking, when i tested the rudder for mobility i noticed it was very stiff the cables resisted turning it side to side, i feared breaking the cables if i forced it so i reluctantly put the kayak back on the rack and regretfully missed a day of kayaking

( before you tell me to learn to kayak without a rudder i must say my boat handles horrible without the rudder probably because i do not weight enough to sink it down into the water, as my boat was designed for larger paddlers, i cannot happily use this boat without the rudder, im saving for a better boat that will handle without a rudder but until then this is what im stuck with)

is there any type of lubricant i can use to prevent the rudder and cables from freezing ?

can anyone answer my questions

please id hate to have invested so much in winter equipment only to be unable to go kayaking

dont know if it matters but my kayak is a boreal design inukshuk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so i went out and bought all the gear kokatat expedition drysuit, whites mk2 undergarment, rei polypro heavy thermals, gloves, boots, you name it, unfortunately my kayak seems less prepared for the winter than I am.

i have to store it outside and have run into some problems

when winter kayaking how do i

1) wash the salt water off my kayak without it freezing

2) prevent the rudder and cables from freezing when im on the water and later when washing it off with fresh water

last saturday on a freezing day i took my kayak off the rack to prepare for a day of kayaking, when i tested the rudder for mobility i noticed it was very stiff the cables resisted turning it side to side, i feared breaking the cables if i forced it so i reluctantly put the kayak back on the rack and regretfully missed a day of kayaking

( before you tell me to learn to kayak without a rudder i must say my boat handles horrible without the rudder probably because i do not weight enough to sink it down into the water, as my boat was designed for larger paddlers, i cannot happily use this boat without the rudder, im saving for a better boat that will handle without a rudder but until then this is what im stuck with)

is there any type of lubricant i can use to prevent the rudder and cables from freezing ?

can anyone answer my questions

please id hate to have invested so much in winter equipment only to be unable to go kayaking

dont know if it matters but my kayak is a boreal design inukshuk

1. I would say washing the kayak is very much over rated. IMO it will be fine without being washed for the winter.

2. Once you get it in the ocean flip it over and let the cold boat get into the warmer ocean water. The salt water has a different freezing point and it's also warmer. My skeg doesn't like the cold but the ocean fixes it.

-Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Matt-

Be cautious if you need to rely on your rudder and accompanying deck mounted cables. While sea water freezes at colder temperatures than fresh, it's only by a few (maybe 4-5) degrees. So while Jason's skeg free's up once its in the relatively warmer salt water, salt water on your deck rigging can easily freeze as it gets exposed to the colder air. Of course, if you don't mind rolling a lot, you could always use that approach to thaw out the ice on the deck :th_thCampingSmiley:

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use 303 for most everything and haven't had any real problem with the rudder freezing up on me.

I wash my boat after each time I paddle though in winter I'm more likely to wipe it down with hot water.

When I launch I check that I can deploy the rudder, not so much concerned if it is stiff turning left or right. For me it is the long lines to deploy the rudder that might freeze (or get pinched against a spare paddle) and of course sometimes I forget to unhook the cord securing it during transport, if so I have to land unhook it and relaunch.

Even if the rudder is stiff it will still act much like a skeg, it helps you track straight. Since the Inukshuk is advertised with moderate rocker and turning agility the tracking is more apt to be of the design than your weight. (I think the low end of the paddlers weight is 120lb so I don't know how that relates to you).

I think the cords for turning the rudder are Spectra line which has a really high breaking point I think stronger than we are so you shouldn't be able to break the manually.

On the older Boreal Designs, like my Alvik, the rudder lines are braided steel. My understanding is that the thinking is the Spectra line will last longer and not rust out, particularly from saltwater. Though I don't know for sure which you have on the

Inukshuk it's always a good idea to keep them as clean as possible.

One thing I thought I would mention is the straps holding the hatch covers down can freeze up, as I learned last year. So it's a good idea to keep warm gloves or mittens handy or tucked away on yourself so you can have the dexterity to work the straps a bit esp if the rest of your warm clothes (or food) are in there.

A thermos of hot water or tea can unthaw most any thing...

Good luck,stay warm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use 303 for most everything and haven't had any real problem with the rudder freezing up on me.

I wash my boat after each time I paddle though in winter I'm more likely to wipe it down with hot water.

When I launch I check that I can deploy the rudder, not so much concerned if it is stiff turning left or right. For me it is the long lines to deploy the rudder that might freeze (or get pinched against a spare paddle) and of course sometimes I forget to unhook the cord securing it during transport, if so I have to land unhook it and relaunch.

Even if the rudder is stiff it will still act much like a skeg, it helps you track straight. Since the Inukshuk is advertised with moderate rocker and turning agility the tracking is more apt to be of the design than your weight. (I think the low end of the paddlers weight is 120lb so I don't know how that relates to you).

I think the cords for turning the rudder are Spectra line which has a really high breaking point I think stronger than we are so you shouldn't be able to break the manually.

On the older Boreal Designs, like my Alvik, the rudder lines are braided steel. My understanding is that the thinking is the Spectra line will last longer and not rust out, particularly from saltwater. Though I don't know for sure which you have on the

Inukshuk it's always a good idea to keep them as clean as possible.

One thing I thought I would mention is the straps holding the hatch covers down can freeze up, as I learned last year. So it's a good idea to keep warm gloves or mittens handy or tucked away on yourself so you can have the dexterity to work the straps a bit esp if the rest of your warm clothes (or food) are in there.

A thermos of hot water or tea can unthaw most any thing...

Good luck,stay warm.

thank you for your replies everyone

to spider

the lines on my inukshuk appear to be braided steal, does this change anything ? is the braided steal more likely to brake than the spectra line, i bought the boat used i think the guy told me it was a 2004 or maybe a 2006 model

after kayaking when you wipe your rudder off with water does it present a problem of freezing when you store your boat outside in the cold, or are you able to completely dry it so it does not freeze ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you for your replies everyone

to spider

the lines on my inukshuk appear to be braided steal, does this change anything ? is the braided steal more likely to brake than the spectra line, i bought the boat used i think the guy told me it was a 2004 or maybe a 2006 model

after kayaking when you wipe your rudder off with water does it present a problem of freezing when you store your boat outside in the cold, or are you able to completely dry it so it does not freeze ??

Once upon a time I used to faithfully wash my boats after use. I did so even in the winter on the roof of my car. Then once I went to a car wash in the winter and washed it off and the boat froze to the roof. I pulled the straps hard and the boat finally came off. Unfortunately it came off with force and flew off the roof of the car and broke my mirror off. The boat was undamaged though which was a lucky thing. Of course it was a lot of money to fix the mirror. Instead I just screwed it back on and it made the wind whistle through the car horrendously as it was a Subaru. The screws rusted and looked ugly and I sold the car, which was a good thing.

Ever since that winter episode, I never, ever, even consider washing off any of my boats.

Szu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once upon a time I used to faithfully wash my boats after use. I did so even in the winter on the roof of my car. Then once I went to a car wash in the winter and washed it off and the boat froze to the roof. I pulled the straps hard and the boat finally came off. Unfortunately it came off with force and flew off the roof of the car and broke my mirror off. The boat was undamaged though which was a lucky thing. Of course it was a lot of money to fix the mirror. Instead I just screwed it back on and it made the wind whistle through the car horrendously as it was a Subaru. The screws rusted and looked ugly and I sold the car, which was a good thing.

Ever since that winter episode, I never, ever, even consider washing off any of my boats.

Szu

Suz,

You always have the best stories :) Too bad that the hard knocks award is such a recent institution. I think you'd have definitely qualified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once upon a time I used to faithfully wash my boats after use. I did so even in the winter on the roof of my car. Then once I went to a car wash in the winter and washed it off and the boat froze to the roof. I pulled the straps hard and the boat finally came off. Unfortunately it came off with force and flew off the roof of the car and broke my mirror off. The boat was undamaged though which was a lucky thing. Of course it was a lot of money to fix the mirror. Instead I just screwed it back on and it made the wind whistle through the car horrendously as it was a Subaru. The screws rusted and looked ugly and I sold the car, which was a good thing.

Ever since that winter episode, I never, ever, even consider washing off any of my boats.

Szu

wow so you dont wash the salt water off your kayak at all, even the metal parts, like the cables and rudder (if you have one) and it doesn't rust, i didnt know you could do that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if - it not too much money to replace most of the hardware and the byproduct of such activity is that you learn how to fix your boat. It will come in handy when a part breaks for real.

Lately I bought a good boat for a good price. It was a brand new boat but somehow escaped sale for a few years. First I thought it was the color, but then when I was checking it out I noticed the skeg was not working and it appeared that it was never working since the boat first made it across he pond. I benefited from an experience.of replacing my skeg last year. I took the skeg apart and soon discovered the problem, fixed the skeg right in the shop and drove off with a brand new boat $miling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure the Spectra line will last longer than the cable, I'm thinking the cable is stainless but I don't know for sure.

I also bought my boat used and my friend has a newer version with the Spectra line, so time will tell. However I do take a lot better care of my boat than he does, so I expect mine to last a lot longer as well.

In the winter I could describe washing it more as a "sponge bath" I wipe it down then dry it as I go along. (I'm not hosing it down unless it's above freezing)

For the fittings and rudder, with the salt water I'm thinking more about possible salt corrosion more than rust. Occasionally you may see kayaks that have never been washed, but I'm a "keep it clean guy" when it comes to the kayaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow so you dont wash the salt water off your kayak at all, even the metal parts, like the cables and rudder (if you have one) and it doesn't rust, i didnt know you could do that

No rudder and my boats are fiberglass. I will add the winter issues of paddling with a rudder to the rudder vs skeg argument!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw this post of a winter kayaking trip in Sweden. What winter kayaking problems? :-) One of the pictures has a nice shot of foredeck glazed in ice. It would take a few rolls to get that off.

No rudder and my boats are fiberglass. I will add the winter issues of paddling with a rudder to the rudder vs skeg argument!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome pictures ! Early winter for them. I did a quick google translate to get the gist of the text.

All time favorite of Santa and headlamp helper...!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once upon a time I used to faithfully wash my boats after use. I did so even in the winter on the roof of my car. Then once I went to a car wash in the winter and washed it off and the boat froze to the roof. I pulled the straps hard and the boat finally came off. Unfortunately it came off with force and flew off the roof of the car and broke my mirror off. The boat was undamaged though which was a lucky thing. Of course it was a lot of money to fix the mirror. Instead I just screwed it back on and it made the wind whistle through the car horrendously as it was a Subaru. The screws rusted and looked ugly and I sold the car, which was a good thing.

Ever since that winter episode, I never, ever, even consider washing off any of my boats.

Szu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ummm Suz was that your old Argonaut.... the one I bought from you?

Not that it matters, just laughing thinking about it.

Nope. It was the Red Romany that went to Barbara up in Maine. Really though, the mirror took the brunt of it, sheared it right off. Not a bit of damage to the boat. I could have easily repaired a holed boat but the mirror was electric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You actually wash your kayak?

No rudder, no skeg, just learn to paddle properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No rudder, no skeg, just learn to paddle properly.

Right on Bob. But there is one exception to the no-rudder rule: racing. I had to switch over to a kayak with an ugly rudder for racing.

Happy holidays old friend. If you're in the neighborhood after April let's paddle together (I'm paddling in south Florida until then).

Still “the Machine” and getting better

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right on Bob. But there is one exception to the no-rudder rule: racing. I had to switch over to a kayak with an ugly rudder for racing.

Happy holidays old friend. If you're in the neighborhood after April let's paddle together (I'm paddling in south Florida until then).

Still “the Machine” and getting better

Whew...for a minute there I thought he was talking about a canoe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You actually wash your kayak?

No rudder, no skeg, just learn to paddle properly.

I would say that this is just insulting and not appropriate. Some boats are designed not to need a skeg or rudder others really need it. If someone is in a boat that requires a skeg or rudder and they use it they are paddling properly. Let's attempt to keep things constructive and encouraging.

-Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that this is just insulting and not appropriate. Some boats are designed not to need a skeg or rudder others really need it. If someone is in a boat that requires a skeg or rudder and they use it they are paddling properly. Let's attempt to keep things constructive and encouraging.

-Jason

I hardly think Bob's comments should be considered insulting or inappropriate. There are many kayak purists who hold this view. Even those of us who appreciate having a skeg often paddle long distances without employing same in order to sharpen our "proper" kayaking skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that this is just insulting and not appropriate. Some boats are designed not to need a skeg or rudder others really need it. If someone is in a boat that requires a skeg or rudder and they use it they are paddling properly. Let's attempt to keep things constructive and encouraging.

-Jason

I paddled with Bob Burnett both before and after he (almost) single-handedly founded this NSPN club. He has a certain way of teaching and it works quite well. For example, on many occasions he used to sneak up behind a paddler and suddenly flip them over (sometimes me). I’m certain that his comments about rudders and skegs were not meant to be insulting. And it certainly wasn’t inappropriate for him to say it on the bulletin board that he created. That’s just his pedantic style.

Bob, I apologize for what some of the young whippersnappers might say. They just don’t know what they don’t know about you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I paddled with Bob Burnett both before and after he (almost) single-handedly founded this NSPN club. He has a certain way of teaching and it works quite well. For example, on many occasions he used to sneak up behind a paddler and suddenly flip them over (sometimes me). I’m certain that his comments about rudders and skegs were not meant to be insulting. And it certainly wasn’t inappropriate for him to say it on the bulletin board that he created. That’s just his pedantic style.

Bob, I apologize for what some of the young whippersnappers might say. They just don’t know what they don’t know about you.

Please don't apologize for me.

As for Bob I appreciate the work that he did to start the club. (Many other people should be thanked for the work they have done though the years too. For example going back to the early days Liz to a lot of the heaving lifting getting things setup with the State, IRS etc).

That said Bob isn't the single source for kayak knowledge or teaching. Just like Derek Hutchinson was a great founder with kayaking, he didn't stay up to date (I am glad not to use a paddle with a 90 deg feather). It seems to me that Bob needs to be a little more open and see the current thoughts as to boats, skegs and rudders. It's great to be able to paddle without them when they break, but many boats are designed to be paddled with them. Telling someone to "paddle properly" because they have a boat that's designed to use a skeg or a ruder is outdated and rather condescending.

I have heard about his antics of sneaking up on people flipping their boats and holding them upside down to prevent rolling. I think that this will fit the definition of battery.

Bob should just be very glad that everybody has bean able to get out of their boats when he has done this. It's a very sad day when someone drowns because they have an issue and can't wet exit, it's a crime when someone has this done to them and things go wrong.

-Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some of the young whippersnappers might say

I'm sure your comment was made in good humor. Therefore, I trust a similar comment that folks should not take heed, let alone be troubled by the crotchety postings of crazy old coots will not offend.

Ed Lawson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...