rick stoehrer

some of the real skinny boat surf ski folks seem to have a preternatural sense of balance and speed and power - with a the mini intro to that world i'm kinda going through, some of these guys are super impressive. while the ability to balance on a very narrow boat is by no means beyond the means of most, it seems to me that it takes years of dedication to just racing skinny boats. i guess i'm not saying that what the fella is saying is "wrong"....nate's right, there are different philosophies - it all comes down to what works for you. in not locking in his knees/thighs, it seems to me that the fella may be going through that period of time where you do fall outta the boat a thousand times before that balance penny drops - and maybe it will for him and all his woes solved. all i'm saying is know WHEN you can put yer dang knee's back under the coaming and lock in...you've got a deck/coamning/hangers there for a reason, doesn't make any sense to me to not use them.

there are loads of philosophies...there have been some real doozies. but he's less stable as a result of having too little contact with his boat. it's what he said when he started this thread, isn't it? the paddler and the boat sort have to be working in tandem and have a connection and from the sounds of things, that isn't happening. on the ski, i've moved the pegs farther forward. it's great. unlocks my whole torso and the rotation is great and it's very comfortable. love it. i also don't paddle it in terribly confused water...that ski keeps me from locking in and after this many years, i'd guess i have a pretty decent seat in a boat so yeah, i'm loose and the boats doing it's thing and then we kinda come to an agreement on where we're going but i sure wouldn't dream of taking it and those loose hips into fishers race or any other tide race...i'd be swimming in short order. the short of it is that when the water gets a little nasty, you're going to want to have your knee's under the coaming and lotsa contact. i'm not telling the fella to not have loose hips and get uptight and all wound up, what i am saying is that he needs more points of contact with his boat. i disagree with your assertion that you forced to actively balance the boat if you have your knees making contact...i'd say you had to actively balance yourself to the craft below you...stop trying to force the boat and just use those loose hips to gimbal yourself about and maintain your weight over the center.

sounds very much to me like your new stance is suboptimal when the water gets bumpy - you don't have enough contact with the boat - you are going to want to have a lot more contact surfaces than your butt alone. you aren't going to have much success with that.

"I used to paddle with my thighs braced up hard, but last month took the guide course from Carmody and Wright, and they convinced me to move the footpegs out and have no contact between the knees and boat. I'm now adapting my new stance to the Bahiya, and it's looking very promising." and then right before that you said , "...but it's giving me a hard time in confused water, clapotis and stern-quartering chop. In those conditions I seem to lose all primary stability and have to rely on bracing to stay afloat." okay...what? so you're knee's AREN'T making contact with the boat? are your thighs? are your hips? are your legs bent and feet on the footpegs? what are your points of contact with the boat and how is it proposed you control the boat? i wonder if there is a disconnect somewhere in the padawan / jedi knight relationship there. it would seem to me from the cursory description that you don't have control of the boat because you don't have points of contact to control the boat...so, yeah, naturally, you're going to feel out of sorts but i wasn't there and am uncertain about what the lesson was and am not sure what's being proposed.

the ratcheting screwdriver is just faster and easier and i'm clumsy enough with tools, thanks very much. it hasn't corroded in the many years i've used it...most of this stuff lives in a smallish nalgene anyways, right? i keep the webbing for misc repair to back bands i may need to make - have used webbing zip ties, line and bungie all to pretty much the same end at one point or another - field rigging something that's busted. i've never used webbing for a sling nor seen anyone use it as an aid to get back in the boat....only read about it. i've never had too much trouble getting anyone back in their boat with or without their help and can't fathom bringing another tool for that bill. the repair kit doesn't change...it all lives in a nylon sack and either that sack gets tossed in the boat or it doesn't...i don't sort it out depending on trip - don't see the point of spending that time.

Sorry fella has to move the business he built over 40 years but couldn't you argue too that we've been subsidizing his business for 40 years? $5,000 is less than $420/month and $30,000 in capital improvements over 40 years is about $63/month....for what is ostensibly a great location. Another way of looking at it is that we've been subsidizing his business and that location for 40 years.

at this point i carry what i have used and only what has worked effectively. multipurpose tool ratcheting screwdriver duct tape ice shield tape (carry it under the shirt when leading a group - it needs to be warm to work) 2 part epoxy heavy duty zip ties line - maybe 10 feet or so of deck line size line. bungee - 5-10 (?) feet or so webbing - not much - foot? self tapping screws couple of small nuts/bolts float bags spare paddles - you can use these as splints depending on how badly you muck up your boat. can fit it all into a small size lunch sack.

Christopher - Certainly the gentleman can defend his position himself however, I think Nate is probably talking about set up time...it's quicker to initiate your roll if you just leave your hands in a regular position and secondly. those lovely places where the water meets the rocks might be good places to initiate your roll sooner rather than later...might save your bean from taking a beating, don't you think? So a faster set up time and roll here might be excellent. On top of which, where that water is likely crashing about on those same rocks maybe it would be better to NOT to be faffing around with moving your hand position....so there's one scenario where fast would be better than slow. Different jobs, different needs/requirements, different tools. It's funny thing perspective...in regards to speed of roll you "can hardly think of times when it is necessary -- of far greater import is that you treat your spine and musculature with as much gentleness and respect as possible -- and <this> is what you will find is so rewarding about Greenland-type rolling." and I think it likely that I am somewhere where risk of spine and head and musculature injury are more pronounced by inversion than by moving my body too fast. It ain't all ponds and pools...you practice slow so that when you speed up (and you do) that you perform it correctly. Feel the motion, understand it and be comfortable with it...then stop thinking about it and it's like blinking.

it's YOUR tool box, use the tools you know how to use best and that work for you...some are redundant and some are superior in different situations but whatever tool YOU use best or as a fail safe has value and if anyone poo-poo's it...well who gives a crap about what blah-blah-blah thinks about blah-blah-blah. best rollers i know use those silly wooden sticks and gyrate and contort themselves into positions i can't fathom, let alone copy and they extend THEIR paddles...don't see anyone in a position to tell cheri or turner or dubside that they're rolling "wrong"...seems a little presumptuous. ...and i am convinced there's no such thing as bomb-proof...the bombs can get bigger and bigger and you get tired, cold, etc. bombproof just means you've been fortunate enough to stay away from nukes or had the juice to withstand one or two.

greg at kayak waveology might have the reed cag in stock...he is in ct

reed chillcheater rocks as well. just an outstanding alternative

i suspect that since we each have an expired membership that we can't PM. i sent you an email with my cell...my email is rickstoehrerathotmaildotcom (or one of several others) in case the email i sent you fails for any reason. thanks Leslie!

second pauls thoughts - solo WFA / WFR is fantastic but the classes take a couple of days or a week depending and i don't have that kind of time right now. Did the WFA few years back...it was excellent and while it wasn't kayak specific it certainly gave you a great overview of what you might encounter in a wilderness situation...seem to remember DON'T MAKE IT WORSE and IMMEDIATE EVAC as a couple of overriding themes. to stay current on my certs though, a FA/CPR cert is a FA/CPR - it's an either you have it or you don't and if i can maintain that in a single days class as opposed to a 2 day or a week long class, then that's the one i'm going with right now.

hey leslie...pm me and i'll send you my phone # and we'll sort it out. that'd be excellent!

Leon - Yup...entered the ERR and will enter the BB when it comes up. Haven't headed down to Lynch Park for Tuesdays yet, but will soon enough Figured I'd spend most of the summer on a ski and with wing in hand and focus on getting faster. Ought to make the explorer even more fun in the slop!

anyone with a ski or comparably fast interested in setting up a schedule to get on the merrimac/amesbury/newburyport during the week to work on stroke / speed? lemmeknow...having others to push you is a little more lively than paddling completely solo.

yup...need to renew mine as well.

The concern is in identifying PRIVATE islands, NOT PUBLIC islands. MITA has been granted access by PRIVATE island owners. MITA members are conveyed access to those PRIVATE islands and they are published in the MITA book as being on the trail. The concern is that in identifying PRIVATE islands that should not be used by non MITA members (and you know...the folks that OWN them) that we are advertising them for use to the general public...and they aren't. Those are NOT PUBLIC LANDS. In remarking upon those PRIVATE islands and how wonderful they are to kayak out to, camp on, use, etc., we are essentially saying "hey, come squat in my neighbors yard, he won't mind.", when in fact, he does mind and we shouldn't be doing that as members of MITA - an organization that is dedicated to responsible use, stewardship and conservation of those islands.

It comes down to conservation of a resource. Unless MITA membership were somehow conferred or verified through NSPN membership, you'd be facing the same dilemma on a smaller scale, wouldn't you? And really, private trip reports on a kayaking website targets the real potential users of those islands so by how much are you even limiting the potential damage? In outing privately held MITA islands to non MITA members on any forum public or private, so that they can plan their trips you help increase the stress on those island resources and on MITA's ability to maintain those islands. Those islands are fragile. Thin topsoil, crumbling rock, some of them with tree's so thick and with enough blow down that if it were to ever catch fire...ooh boy, that'd be bad. And they're already overused. That money paid to MITA for membership pays island caretakers, maintains equipment for island clean ups and supports out reach programs to support conservation of the Maine Island Trail. It is a very worthwhile organization with a mission that most of us support and hold dear. NOW....if MITA had a forum to post trip reports that was regulated by MITA membership...oh, chit-chat away. HEY SCOTT......you guys ever look into that? It's a logical extension of the log books you all keep on the islands already. Til then, for me, first rule of Private MITA Islands is you don't talk about Private MITA Islands.

...doesn't take a car accident mike...fella rushing around ran over HIS OWN untied and dangling bow line at the november gales symposium couple years back and shear cracked the front third of his brand new romany elite....snap, crackle, pop. yowza....that has to hurt.

to play devils advocate - over many miles and a lot of years, i've almost never used a bow line to secure the kayak - way too easy to over tighten and you can damage the boat. the few times i have used a bow line, it was loose. loose and more of an "early warning" system to alarm me if the boat/rack has worked it's way loose from the roof. when i tie the boat to the kayak rack i also secure the straps to the car rack....in essence tying everything together...foolproof? probably not but i've never ever had a problem. doug has a point about the monkeys fist - cool for it's original application but less useful for the poor shmo in the water who may need something to hang on to...you can still used a traditional handle by simply attaching it with a piece of line and not LOOP the line...this reduces risk of finger entrapment.

The islands have plenty of poison ivy, poison sumac and poison oak…all of which can cause uncomfortable rashes. DON’T burn it in your below high tide fires. The smoke can cause respiratory problems. Mosquitos and black flies can be an annoyance. Depending on how bad, you pick a site accordingly and hope it’s windy enough to keep them off of you. Also, I might not camp directly adjacent to any standing water. More seriously, the islands also have brown tail moths – again with the rash and respiratory reaction for some. Besides these challenges, some of the islands in Casco and elsewhere have abandoned fortifications from various wars – they’re dark and falling into serious disrepair. Be careful! The mortar is crumbling and wood is decaying in these structures and in the dark, you’re liable to have a hard time telling what can take your weight and what can’t – use appropriate caution; I personally would not want to be inside one of these dank places alone with a broken ankle. Besides these excitements, the biggest challenge we face camping is campfires. They’re the #1 cause of camping injury….too close to tents, in high traffic areas, etc. Fires are dangerous. Besides which, the islands are fragile – there isn’t a lot of topsoil on these rocky islands and since there is so little arable real estate, the roots and tree structure are shallow and intertwined in that thin layer. Even if you “control” the fire in your site, you can’t tell if that’s damaging the fragile systems below it. If you MUST have a fire, ONLY have it in pre-existing fire rings or BELOW the high tide line. Set it APART from where you’re sleeping and high traffic areas. If you’re using it as a cook fire, LIMIT the folks over by it…too many cooks ruin the soup….and can fall into the fire! As for shellfish, if there is no shellfish warning issued, I seem to recall you can harvest 2 bushels/per person? Something like that…more than you’re going to eat! On the other hand, I might harvest them away from where I am camping because maybe not everyone will be as diligent in their leave no trace ethic as you will be and who knows where THEIR waste ended up? I might harvest a bit away from whatever looks established landing site I may have used. In any event, if you start getting tingling in the tongue, arms or legs, nausea, headache, diarrhea…if any of that festival of symptoms comes knockin’ after you’ve eaten your harvested shellfish you’re going to want to get immediate evac – you’ve got shellfish poisoning or are having an allergic reaction and need to get to a hospital…in the meantime, induce vomiting (you may not need to induce it...you're body may be taking care of that already. Also, not a bad idea to keep any of the cooked shellfish for the docs and once the emergency has been resolved and it’s been determined if it was an allergy or shellfish poisoning, notify maine dept of resources if the latter. That way, if the bed wasn’t previously closed, it will be.

Ha...this topic is liable to start a firestorm of responses. I will premise all comment with the gleeful admission that I like NDK (SKUK) boats...I REALLY like NDK boats. I paddle NDK boats and am convinced that upon the occasions (more than one) I've done dumb things, the boat was rugged enough to get me home/to the surface, etc., where others may not have been. As I don't have similar empirical evidence for those other manufacturer boats, I will sing the praises of Nigels "British Heavies" til I no longer paddle. GENERALLY speaking...boats that use older manufacturing technology (hand lay ups, chop strand and then don't vacuum bag to draw out the excess epoxy/resins) will be heavier. They almost have to be by the means they are manufactured. NDK uses a hand layup with chop strand and doesn't suck out the excess epoxy/resin and It's why you see the explorer towards the top in weight. In all those manufacturers you can spec order different layups (getting your top deck reinforced if you think you might do a lot of rescues) and those will all affect the weight. There are pros and cons to each method....the argument FOR chop strand is that when (the boats are built to be beaten) you damage the boat, the damage is localized and the crack doesn't travel as far - it's easier to repair and in the meantime the boat is more structurally sound until such time you can make a proper/decent repair. As I've put lotsa holes, cracks and dings in my explorers (hey, anyone wanna buy a boat?) and this has been my experience, I'd say it's a valid argument. One of the cons is the weight. They ARE HEAVY. On the other hand, they're all touring/expedition boats so really, other than loading it onto the roof or hauling it above the high water mark, does a few pounds one way or the other make a hill of beans difference? While less weight would be great for responsiveness, the boats you've listed aren't all that far apart in weight are they? I've only noticed a marked difference in performance due to sea kayak weight in a spec order explorer that they were playing around with trying to manufacture - that weighed 30 odd pounds or so? THAT was a dream to paddle! Alas, it'll never happen and if it did the cost would be like buying NASA surplus equipment. In any event, no, I personally have never noticed a marked difference in performance on water due to sea kayak weight. Hull shapes? Sure, but not weights so much. AN example of hull shape making a difference - my first proper sea kayak was a P&H Orion that was a dream to paddle - it was wide amidships and with very little bow/stern volume...it was very stable but if you put that thing on edge there was a lot of the boat was out of the water - it was very, very easy to turn quickly. HOWEVER, It was an absolute PIG in the surf - wallowed and those ends would just pierce into the wave and you'd take green water in the kisser! More bongo slides than anything else So...while that hull shape was good for some things, it was lousy for what I ended up really liking to do. The volume of the bulkheads / size of the hatches has more to do with the ease of getting things in and out of the boats. I've gone for a week out of my Explorer without a problem. I saw one lady once pull everything but a kitchen sink out of a very cavernous Valley boat (a lady who's name rhymes with Huzanne Sutchinson...oh wait...) and then at one point I had to put it all back in but realistically, HOW MUCH stuff do you need? I think you'll find the shape of the hatch to be more or less convenient from one to another and know that while I'm not sure about the TR boats, that the NDK's can be ordered with an oval hatch as opposed to the standard rounds. I think the consensus is that ovals are easier to pack than rounds but that the rounds aren't exactly a hardship...you just need a little more finagling. Not sure there are any "losers" in that bunch you've listed and it'll all come down to what you like best. Again, my opinion is the Explorer rocks. It does everything pretty well but the place is shines is when it gets rough. For the most part, that's EXACTLY the moment I fell in love with them. Have fun, paddle them all in a variety of water if you can. I've got an old explorer that's "battered but not beaten" if you'd like to paddle it for awhile. As ever, opinions will vary.

read this quick so apologize if mentioned somewhere - under the potential grim reality heading... a good question is always where's the nearest CG station / harbormaster / emergency service / hospital? if you need evac, where and how far away is help coming from? The radio is your best bet for any help but a cell phone or at least the phone #'s are awful good to have. write it down, throw it in a hatch or put it on your cell phone for reference...even if there is no cell service, you'll have the # handy if you can get a land line. in the event of a medical emergency / injury - how well equipped is the group to handle until first responders arrive? do you feel this should limit the scope of your trip? do you know your companions spouse / SO / next of kin name - phone # ? if things go hairball and you need to contact anyone to let them know what's going on (YOU should...not anyone else) you don't want to have to call and start the conversation "...is this the widow XXX?" have a name and a phone #. but besides all the doom and gloom...have fun.

i'm as guilty as anyone else in this regard....so far my clear favorites are "combat" and "bomb proof." as in, "she performed a combat roll" or "i'll teach you a bomb proof roll" really? there were bombs going off and people were shooting at you and you [insert here] and christopher, before you get your grammar knickers all in a twist, hyperbolic/exaggeration are side by side on purpose and with tongue firmly in cheek. please remain calm. other favorites? please feel free to discuss, or as leon has kindly pointed out, hijack and meander away as you will....oh wait, "hijack", while a board favorite, not really pointed at kayaking....