djlewis

I feel your pain, Pru -- sounds a lot like you are in the middle of my story. What finally got me to a reliable combat roll was tons of practice. In practice sessions I'd try a deep high brace (unlike Brian, I did not start with bracing, the way EJ recommends) or a scull, fail and presto -- an opportunity for a (sort of) combat roll. A few hundred (well, maybe one hundred) of those, and I had a much better roll, almost combat-ready -- in pools and flat water. The next step was being on a training with Steve Maynard at Tybee, in the Triangle on a day with good confused overhead stuff of all kinds from all directions. He said -- ok, everybody now just go roll in that for 30 minutes -- using every variant you can think of to capsize, voluntarily and "involuntarily" -- run off several back-and-forth -- etc etc. I was bushed afterward, but that did it!

GP roll, I presume? Trouble is, whom do you go to for euro paddle rolling? I recommend Armand Mikune-Santos -- I think he is still working out of CRCK these days. Also, Bob Foote has done wonders for a number of people rolling, though he is not around here very much. And oddly enough, when I asked him for help on deep high bracing, I did not find him terribly effective. But there are a number of stories out there about Foote fixing someone's roll in five minutes without even getting out of his boat! --David

I absolutely agree that rolling is not an arcane skill, reserved for the very athletic. I figured that out back in 2003 or so when I had the basics down and pondered learning to roll -- all sorts of non-athletes were doing it; crck was offering classes to all comers; etc etc.. IOW, I think your proposition here has been accepted for quite some time, and it's certainly the common view today. The part I was focusing on is that, despite that, rolling is still a "finicky" body-mind skill -- it can be tricky to learn; it can be lost and regained; some people who oughta be able to roll (by whatever intuition) never seem to be able to, and vice versa. As someone pointed out, one of the reasons is that it's counter-intuitive, so your mind is working against your body in many ways. That's very unlike the forward stroke -- essentially anybody can get in a boat and make it go forward with no instruction, and get half-efficient at it with 10 minutes of on-water guidance -- it's the other half of the efficiency curve that we spend the rest of our paddling lives pursuing, especially the upper 10-20%. So, as it turns out, many folks get stuck at one stage or another learning for reasons that have nothing to do with attitude or moral fiber. And it does no good to keep telling them that rolling is easy, and any idiot can do it -- in fact, that probably makes them more anxious and, rolling being very much a mind skill as well as body, actually makes it harder for them to progress. Another personal story along these lines. As my roll was deteriorating in the last couple of years, my good-side roll was ragged and I couldn't even get up on my not-so-good side with any certainty, I decided to get a tune-up. I chose Armand Mikune-Santos because I had admired his coaching skill on a number of occasions. So I plunked down the money at CRCK where he was working and we paddled out of the dock and down the Charles. Well, for the first 15 minutes all we did was paddle slowly and chat -- about life, interests, activities, then a bit about kayaking, and then we got around to rolling, that is, chatting about rolling. By the time we got to a spot where he pulled over and said "how about here" I was so relaxed that I ran off three perfect rolls on both sides. Armand looked at me with a quizzical smile and asked what I needed him for! I said -- whoa, I do have a problem. So I kept going with the both the offside and onside rolls, and sure enough they started to deteriorate, and he gave me several good observations and pointers. Then we paddled back, and despite having paid for an hour of instruction and only gotten maybe 20 minutes of actual work, I was quite satisfied. (Except that my roll still keeps going south anyway -- the original glitch that I burned in way back is very stubborn, and I just don't work on it enough these days.) --David

I will offer two bits of advice for anyone learning to roll and not just getting it the way Brian did. #1 -- echoing Cathy -- do get some good professional or accomplished amateur instruction. Don't start taking a lot of random advice from friends; that could well confuse more than help you. #2 -- if you have gotten your first roll and are working to make it better, smoother, more reliable but are either not making steady progress toward 100% and smooth, or even going backwards --stop practicing! You will just burn in bad habits. Go immediately to advice #1. (I speak from experience on this one -- my not-so-good side these days was actually my first rolling side. I did just what I am warning about here, and it pretty much permanently burned in a hitch that has now become even worse with lack of regular practice.)

My rolling story in a nutshell -- rolled after 2 hours of group instruction in the first class (with Kevin Horner at CRCK) -- spent the next year progressively losing it -- Marjorie Woodwell was a doll, went with me to several pool sessions and I got it back -- spent the next year perfecting it on both sides in combat -- reached a peak at Tybee with Steve Maynard -- great for a couple of years, all but bombproof -- started paddling less and rolling even less, and getting old, stiff hips -- developed some hitches in the movement and timing -- roll is now pretty shaky on one side, ok on the other, but not great. BTW, in that first year of losing it, someone put a Greenland stick in my hands and I executed several perfect rolls instantly with almost no instruction. But I handed it back -- this is cheating -- I need to learn to roll with a rrrreal paddle! I have never failed a gp roll or scull or brace since, but I still cling to my spoon (= "Euro", Sir Chris) paddle -- too much investment in stroke training with it and not enough desire and time to redo it all with a gp. Having observed lots of folks -- and myself -- fail and succeed at rolling, I can say with come confidence that it is easy for some and hard for others -- how's that for profundity! But for most of those who have trouble, I really don't think it's a matter of talking themselves out of something inherently easy. Some people are just better at it for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with athleticism, movement and motor skill, body-mind coordination, etc. You do understand, Brian, that there is a very wide range among human beings on these and other body-mind skills -- just because it was easy for you does not mean it can be easy for everyone. So have a little compassion for those who have been working on it for a long time -- and maybe offer them some of your expert instruction!

Yeah, Dubside rolls a rec boat in one of his videos. As for rolling a tugboat, seems like a cue for this again http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYzpK3VqNXg -- David

Brian, you really ought to tell folks here -- most of whom don't know you and have never seen you paddle -- that you use a Greenland paddle. It really is important context. Now if you wanna argue that the standard layback, extended-paddle greenland roll is no easier than the standard spoon paddle sweep or c-to-c rolls, then I think you will be on shaky ground. If, however, you compare the greenland roll to the pawlata or to a simulated greenland roll with a spoon paddle, you may have something. IMHO those rolls are almost as easy as the greenland roll, but not altogether. It's unfortunate that, perhaps because of the whitewater heritage of spoon paddle rolling, those techniques are not taught as much as they might be. BTW, how is your spoon paddle roll these days? When did you last try one? When did you last have a spoon paddle in your hands while in a kayak? --David

Ho hum, another incredible trip report from Kate! Sounds like you guys had a great time. You almost define the art of paddling vacations. --David

Here are two place to look for fairly detailed conditions forecasts, taking landforms, distance from shore, etc into account, things you don't get from the big swaths reported in NWS's usual marine forecasts. That's especially important in MA, given the major swell shadowing effect from the Cape, which fools a lot of people into thinking the swell will be bigger than it is (depending on the direction, of course). That effect doesn't apply as much to the Maine coast, except for Penobscot Bay, plus of course the local estuaries and peninsulas. But you can definitely see the N-S differences. NWS graphical (scale a bit small) http://graphical.weather.gov/sectors/maineMarineDay.php#tabs Swellwatch, separate reports for N and S Maine coast http://forecasts.surfingmagazine.com/#place=44.406316252661355_-67.752685546875_8_1879_height_none_Sat_-1

I took Lisa's advice and got a spray bottle of Salt Away. Just used it once so far, but it appears to do the job nicely. Hey, I inadvertently ordered an extra bottle -- it's yours when you get back on the water. --David

Dead at around 80 hours. So around 22-23 mA/h.

That's why I guess it's good to measure actual burn-down time. At 75+ hours it finally lost a bar. So the effective drain rate -- on my kitchen counter, at room temp, with no incoming traffic -- seems to be about 20-25 mA/h. So my typical day above would take about 300mA, giving it 6+ days of usage on one battery charge. Pretty impressive. --David

Current drain (at 7.5V DC) Tx 6W output -- 1.7A typical Tx 5W output -- 1.5A typical Rx Internal SP -- 400mA typical (AF Max.) Rx External SP -- 200mA typical (AF Max.)

65 total hours on standby and still showing all the bars. Here are the specs Current drain (at 7.5V DC) Tx 6W output 1.7A typical Tx 5W output 1.5A typical Rx Internal SP 400mA typical (AF Max.) Rx External SP 200mA typical (AF Max.) They don't show standby draw, but obviously it is under 30mA (at this point -- may go lower). I presume internal SP is the built-in speaker, and external SP is the add-on external speaker/mic. Assuming 3 minutes/day of transmission, 30 of incoming traffic, mostly for weather reports, 6 hours on standby, I get a drain of about 400A/day, so maybe 5 days usage. But that could go a bit longer depending on the final estimate of standby draw. -David

Report on the used ICom M72 I bought on eBay... I used it on a paddle and it worked fine. It was on for 6 hours during the paddle with a bit of transmitting. Then Thursday evening around 8:00 I turned it on and have left it on since. Now, 44 hours later (total 50 hours), the battery indicator is still showing a full charge. Obviously I have not transmitted, but does it take more juice when there is incoming traffic? Do folks think this is what we can realistically expect on the water? In any case, the battery on the used unit seems fine, and now I have a backup. But Ern told me that he talked to an ICom technician who said that it is not designed to have the battery removed and replaced very much -- that will degrade the seals. They figure the battery will just stay in place until it fails, years later. So that calls into question the intention to use the second battery to extend life on a longer trip. Sounds like under-engineering to me, and too bad. With judicious use of the on/off knob, it seems like one battery will go for up to a week's expedition, so I could get almost two weeks out of it with the second battery.

I bought the ICom M72 on eBay for $170 -- thanks Ern. Reasoning -- The incredible 2000 mAh battery is worth the $70 (almost double the 1040 mAh on the WM) -- plus good reports about durability from everyone, except that the volume knob gets crudded with salt. But Lisa told me about Salt Away, which keeps hers in perfect working condition. If the battery is crappy, I'll use the still-good battery from the unit I ruined by not clearing volume knob of salt religiously. If it's a good battery, I'll have two 2000 mAh batteries! Even if the battery is crappy, I'll have a backup that will extend usage by something. It's covered by the eBay warranty, so it has to work as a radio. If the battery is demonstrably crappy, I may even be able to get a refund from that -- I'll test it right away.

"Sorry, there's no camping on Nantucket. According to Nantucket Online: "In order to protect the Island's fragile environment, camping (including just spending the night on the beach in your sleeping bag) is prohibited and punishable by a fine of up to $200." http://camping.about.com/od/frequentlyaskedquestions/f/Nantucket-Island.htm I suspect the Island's fragile environment" refers more to an economic than a natural environment, especially since you can camp there if you're in the Boy Scouts... http://www.camprichard.org/

Interesting -- you're quite the eBay hound, Ern (that's a compliment). BATTERY NOT TESTED OR GUARANTEED $75 with shipping. Either I use my existing battery, which is in decent shape, or I buy a new one for $90 from WM. I guess the Uniden/WM unit looks better.

Christopher -- I see a 5-inch pair for $4, but nothing under that. I got one of those, and they are probably just as effective for kayaking purposes -- cutting an untensed tow line that threatens to entangle you -- as the usual 7-inch models. So bottom line, I guess that the price barrier on these items has long since been busted -- I was years out of date and fretting unnecessarily. They are a nice, cheap knife alternative which won't spread peanut butter or slice an apple, but then again, won't slice your jugular either.

Ern -- The ICom M72 is $215 at Defender, and the Uniden MHS75 (roughly the same as the WM VHF85) is $90 there, a $125 difference. But the battery packs are $63 at defender and $40 at Uniden. So I was wrong about that being the price differential. I guess the proper comparison is to carry an extra battery pack with the Uniden/WM, making it $120-130 vs $215. And you are right about 15 hours of transmit -- a typo or marketing exaggeration (so, Christopher, we can test in receive mode -- that's the crux). Definitely worth considering the Uniden or WM. I still want a way to mount it on my PFD strap, however. And only time will tell how well these guys hold up under use. If it's $135 for 5 years, that's about $27/year as a "consumable". But if it craps out in the middle of a week-long vacation, it won't be pleasant.

I looked up the ICom M88 and M72 battery specs -- 1700 mAh and 2000 mAh respectively -- 63% and 92% more than the WM VHS85. That explains my observation that the IComs go for-evah! It matters a lot, IMHO especially on a multi-day trip. Perhaps everybody could turn on their VHF at home after charging and note when it runs dry. I'd say use the maximum wattage since, IMHO, that's what you'll want to use on the water, and not be constantly fiddling, especially if it's on your strap. I suspect there are no complicated battery drainage issues as there are with cell phones -- it's in their software (which I used to work on). The ambient temperature is probably the only variable, so do it indoors. The battery size alone probably accounts for most of the price difference, so be clear what you are paying for... and what corner you are cutting by going cheap. I resolved this years ago in my mind -- it was worth the extra money for the IComs. The catch is, back then they were built like tanks -- now both my IComs have had "issues" and I'm not so sure any more.

Also, has anybody used one enough to know if the 11 hour battery life is standby time or talk time? Just for the record, the ICom M88 lists 15 hour talk time. I know that manufacturers' battery time figures are unreliable, but my experience with ICom units is that the battery never seems to run out if I'm doing minimal talking (which is essentially always the case -- I can't imagine using one hour of talk time on a trip, much less 15!). In fact, I can go several consecutive days on a charge, leave it on the shelf for a month, and the battery indicator still says full (though I do charge it up anyway). Is the West Marine / Uniden battery anywhere near that good? I think over half the cost of handheld VHFs is in the battery. If the manufacturer's spec is 11 hours standby time, then it probably can't even get through a long paddling day, much less a weekend. Anybody have experience with the VHF85? BTW, I am having issues with my IComs too, Suz. My old M88 just stopped working, so I got a M72. But the volume knob always stuck, and more recently I forgot to wash it over the winter and it stuck so hard the unit is now useless. But like you, I found my M88 coming back to life. So I have something, but I ain't counting on it for long. But ohhh... that ICom battery life! --David

I was just about to buy one by mail for $99 plus extra insurance and then I saw this... Extend your warranty protection with PLUS Plan! PLUS Plan One-Year Warranty $18.44 USD PLUS Plan Two-Year Warranty $23.49 USD No, thank you Ern -- you said $14 for two extra years. Is it cheaper in the store? Also, the specs say 4.56" tall -- I assume that is without the antenna -- correct? Finally, what kind of mount does it have? I am specifically y looking for a vertical clip sort of deal, since I already have a loop of gorilla tape on my pfd strap that takes a clip quite nicely. (Yes, I keep my radio on my pfd strap -- wanna fight about it? ;-))) I guess I could go to the Woburn store, but I'm lazy and it might not be in stock. Yes, internet shopping and free shipping has sapped my moral fiber.

Dynamite, Pru!

Ever since my fawncy Sea Snips took a dive, I've been dreading laying out $25+ for a new pair. Now I know why. I think these guys are buying these or these smaller ones and marking them up 500-1000% (with $0.75 worth of "holster"). Or, now I see something similar here for $13 plus who-knows-what for shipping. Anyway, I just got a pair of the titanium-bonded ones by Clauss from Amazon for $8 and no shipping (with Amazon Prime), and they claim to be "3 times stronger than plain stainless steel and highly resistant to corrosion." I'll letcha know how they hold up, but truth to tell, my original expensive Sea Snips corroded pretty badly after a season or two, so they may be happier on the bottom. But hey, I can still use the holster. --David