Doug Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Re: "THE DUMP" by Body Boat BladeAs some of you know, Leon Somme of Body Boat Blade has come up with a really great rescue called "The Dump" as shown in the YouTube video below.I have practiced 'The Dump" during pool sessions and following his instruction carefully, this rescue method can be of great value in nasty conditions. As Leon states, it is important to lean your boat towards the person being rescued as he approaches and mounts your deck with his bow. This is to create as smooth and impact free transition onto your combing as possible. It's also important to lean your boat away from him as you dump all the water out of his cockpit in an attempt to get his bow as high up in the air as possible. These two things are very important!The upside is that this rescue is fairly simple when helping someone that has a bombproof roll. The downside is you do take on some degree of risk to damaging the deck and or combing of your boat according to JC. My big concern is the definite damage you do to your spray skirt. (see pics below).I contacted Leon Somme today and had a discussion about this rescue. I asked him if he knows of other people damaging their neoprene skirts and he replied that YES, it does happen at times. Neoprene skirts will tear which is why he suggests only doing it with a Snapdragon Expedition skirt. Leon also states that it is why it's the only spray skirt he sells and stands behind and claims that Snapdragon has a good warranty policy. We will see how long that lasts.I would have liked to know this prior to ripping apart my new $150 Seals custom "Pro Shocker" skirt.This "Review" is an attempt to simply warn fellow paddlers and hopefully save them some costly grief. If you plan to practice this manurer, do so with an expendable back-up skirt.The crew at "Body Boat Blade" are wonderful people and among the best in the sport. I certainly have no intent to discredit their name or reputation in any way. Leon agreed in retrospect that perhaps he should forewarn those attempting this rescue in the future. "Happy Paddling"Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyork Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would have liked to know this prior to ripping apart my new $150 Seals custom "Pro Shocker" skirt.Doug"Seams" like someone in the club might suggest a person/place to patch your skirt defect Doug? Local Dive Shop maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 "Seams" like someone in the club might suggest a person/place to patch your skirt defect Doug? Local Dive Shop maybe?Thanks Gary, but the skirt is not defective. No neoprene skirt could hold up to that repeated abuse. Seals has agreed to replace the eye panels at no cost. I could have patched it myself aqua seal but given the fact that I had but a half season with it, I wanted it repaired right even if it cost me. I'm elated that Seals is stepping up and taking care of it. I even explained how it happened which is really beyond what they should warranty but they were happy to accommodate me.Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I wouldn’t try the dump with plumb-bow kayaks like my Epic or the other two in the attached pix. Just saying.-Leon Edited February 19, 2014 by leong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolster Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Bob Levine and I did a few of these the pool a couple of weeks ago, and I noticed on my last outing that my cockpit coaming on the left side is completely separated and will need to be professionally reattached. I have quite a few issues with this rescue, and they are based on the fact that the rescue is supposed to be for a faster rescue in "nasty" conditions. This rescue requires the following challenges:1) Doing a reentry-and-roll in rough conditions after doing a wet-exit (there was a reason for the wet-exit).2) Navigating a sloppy, water-filled boat directly at someone else's bouncing boat without spearing them with your bow.3) Angling the "ramp" boat at just the right time without getting dumped over in the rough conditions.4) Not getting the "ramp" boat spray skirt torn, or as Bob and I experienced, pulled off by the other boat's bow toggle.5) Doing another roll (that makes it the THIRD time upside down in the boat) with your bow a couple of fee out of the water - and no skirt on.6) Spending the time to get the boat completely empty with someone hanging upside down in rough water.7) Getting the spray skirt back onto the boat without the support you get during a T-rescue.I will admit that I do not have experience doing many rescues in rough waters, and I plan to rectify that this summer, but I don't think that this rescue will be one that I add to my arsenal. I think that, if a couple of very good paddling buddies want to learn it and use it amongst themselves, that is fine, but the T-Rescue is by far superior for the general paddling community for a multitude of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallen Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Seems like this would be a good roll to play with at Walden Pond. Useful when you're practicing "stupid kayak tricks", have a boat full of water and don't want to come out to empty it. Also, not sure why you would need to approach the other boat with speed. You could simply drag the boat across your lap and go from there. Agree this might not be a "go to" rescue in some circumstances. Might be fun to play around with, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Seems like this would be a good roll to play with at Walden Pond. Useful when you're practicing "stupid kayak tricks", have a boat full of water and don't want to come out to empty it. Also, not sure why you would need to approach the other boat with speed. You could simply drag the boat across your lap and go from there. Agree this might not be a "go to" rescue in some circumstances. Might be fun to play around with, though!I believe it's not the initial mount that tears the sprayskirt although its most likely the mount with a boat full of water, even with a slow approach, that will damage the structural integrity of your kayak deck or combing.It is the dump with the twisting and tearing effect of deck lines curves and edges of the rescued boat that rips up the sprayskirt in my opinion.I can however as mentioned earlier see a use for this rescue.Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Seems like this would be a good roll to play with at Walden Pond. Useful when you're practicing "stupid kayak tricks", have a boat full of water and don't want to come out to empty it. Also, not sure why you would need to approach the other boat with speed. You could simply drag the boat across your lap and go from there. Agree this might not be a "go to" rescue in some circumstances. Might be fun to play around with, though!The T-Rescue will more completely empty a boat than the “dump”Who’s strong enough to drag a boat across your lap if it’s full of water with the captain in the cockpit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The T-Rescue will more completely empty a boat than the “dump”Who’s strong enough to drag a boat across your lap if it’s full of water with the captain in the cockpit?I have never had an issue.... Still don't see the "dump" as being a goto rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I'm in agreement with Leon and Jason: the regular T-rescue works perfectly well, even in conditions (and this rescue is not <demonstrated> in conditions, after all, is it?) Many moons ago, Suzanne and I practised T-rescues in what I recollect as four-to-five foot waves and it worked just fine. We had fun that day!The most important thing to remember, when assisting a paddler to re-enter a boat in big conditions is the necessity to commit fully to the other boat: if you lean <right> across the previously-capsized vessel (and hang on for dear life! Grin here!) then both boats will ride up and down the waves buoyantly and in unison. Yes: fun!Don't anyone expect <me> to jeopardize my equipment in the manner of this video. Edited February 19, 2014 by Pintail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have never had an issue.... Still don't see the "dump" as being a goto rescue. Hey, superman, are you saying that in rough conditions you can pull a stationary and upright kayak across your deck if it’s full of water and a 175-lb. captain? Bet you $5 that you can’t. The essence of the “dump” trick is that the dump-ee’s boat has to have sufficient momentum to climb onto your deck.Plumb bows aside, I wouldn’t even try it with a lightweight all-carbon kayak. The risk of performing the “dump” is cracked hulls and ripped sprayskirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hey, superman, are you saying that in rough conditions you can pull a stationary and upright kayak across your deck if it’s full of water and a 175-lb. captain? Bet you $5 that you can’t. Your sliding them over you deck, only the cockpit has water, it's not like all the hatches are full. Dragging boat with a 175 pound person on to my deck doesn't seem like a big challenge. In conditions you can use the conditions to help and you will have plenty to brace with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolster Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think it all depends on the boats involved. I noticed that when I just got the tip of Bob's boat onto mine, I was not able to get the back of his cockpit clear enough of the water for a good empty, and he tended to scoop some water back in when he rolled back up (watch the video again and you might see it). I found that I had to pull an extra foot or so of his boat onto mine in order to really get his cockpit empty (the whole point of it, right?). That extra foot required some momentum on his part, or a REALLY good tug on mine.Keep in mind that each gallon of water in the cockpit adds approximately 8-1/3 pounds to the overall weight. How much water ends up in the cockpit after a re-entry and roll? More than 5gal? Less than 10gal? I don't know, but you might be looking at an additional 50-100lbs of water weight.And for what it's worth, I think that 175lbs is a bit trim for a good lot of us, myself included!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Your sliding them over you deck, only the cockpit has water, it's not like all the hatches are full. Dragging boat with a 175 pound person on to my deck doesn't seem like a big challenge. In conditions you can use the conditions to help and you will have plenty to brace with. >>Your sliding them over you deck, only the cockpit has water, it's not like all the hatches are full.Yes, I know. So the bet is on, right? Wait till next June for my return to America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 >>Your sliding them over you deck, only the cockpit has water, it's not like all the hatches are full.Yes, I know. So the bet is on, right? Wait till next June for my return to America.Leon, I had absolutely no problem pulling Kevin B's boat with at least half full cockpit of water onto my deck and after a proper dump he only needed to sponge out the rest due to owning a self draining new style Explorer. It's easier than it appears perhaps. I'll take you up on a larger wager if you pay for my sprayskirt! Haha. I think we have reached an impass!Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 >>Your sliding them over you deck, only the cockpit has water, it's not like all the hatches are full.Yes, I know. So the bet is on, right? Wait till next June for my return to America.Sounds like an easy $5. Don't bring your race boat I don't know how it deal with the stress of being lifted 1/2 out of the water filled with water and person.I thought that you were just in FL? Where are you these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sounds like an easy $5. Don't bring your race boat I don't know how it deal with the stress of being lifted 1/2 out of the water filled with water and person.I thought that you were just in FL? Where are you these days?Yes, FL. With all the hanging chads and other nonsense it doesn't seem like one of the states.I could go broke on this bet. I'll have to try it myself down here.The problem with a plumb bow boat is you can't slide it on until you lift it high enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes, FL. With all the hanging chads and other nonsense it doesn't seem like one of the states.I could go broke on this bet. I'll have to try it myself down here.The problem with a plumb bow boat is you can't slide it on until you lift it high enough.Leon,Please don't try it with one of your thin skinned glass boats. They are made for speed not abuse.I used a bulletproof Romany. I would also have no issues other than the sprayskirt issue of course to use my expedition layup Cetus, also bulletproof.Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 An idle thought. With all the talk of damage to this and that from trying this rescue method, consider the implications of doing a T rescue with boats bouncing about in textured water and fully loaded for a multi-day trip. Out of curiosity, who has done such a rescue or even practiced it? Lots of stress on body and boat I suspect.While it is perhaps fun to practice multiple rescues in a pool,it is certainly necessary to practice rescues adequately to maintain proficiency, and some seem to consider them a routine part of any club paddle; I believe it reasonable to suggests there is some level of risk to gear, if not paddlers, when performing practice rescues. If needed, those risks are part of the price of admission, but otherwise maybe worth asking what is the value received from the risk?Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverseyourself Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm just glad you tried this rescue, which I was curious about...so I don't have to Seriously, I'm sorry about the damage to Doug's sprayskirt and Rob's coaming. What a PITA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Okay, I concede that many NSPN’ers have sufficient upper body strength to slide a loaded and upright kayak onto their deck. However, I think that it’s only possible if the kayak has a sloping bow (i.e. it’s just a simple inclined plane); otherwise, with a plumb bow, the kayak has to be lifted first, and that requires more upper body strength than most people have. So, even without a demonstration, Jason wins the bet. Full disclosure: I’m selling discounted sprayskirts for those practicing the “dump” procedure. -LeonPSJason, PM me your address and I will mail you a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 How come I can't show the smiley face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolster Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Leon, maybe you need to smile more?I think that the smiley faces went defunct on a system update sometime last year, and it hasn't been a big enough issue to get them fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallen Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I did this rescue once this Summer, before knowing what it was called. A female friend, roughly the same size as me, said she was working on trying out a new technique she'd just learned and asked if I was game to assist. I don't believe she approached with speed, and I was able to drag her across my cockpit. I am not certain how much water her boat had in it at the time. I fortunately did not have any damage to either cockpit or sprayskirt. It was kind of cool. Not to say I don't appreciate the warning on possible hazards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Okay, I concede that many NSPN’ers have sufficient upper body strength to slide a loaded and upright kayak onto their deck. However, I think that it’s only possible if the kayak has a sloping bow (i.e. it’s just a simple inclined plane); otherwise, with a plumb bow, the kayak has to be lifted first, and that requires more upper body strength than most people have. So, even without a demonstration, Jason wins the bet. Full disclosure: I’m selling discounted sprayskirts for those practicing the “dump” procedure. -LeonPSJason, PM me your address and I will mail you a check.We can skip the check. It's in all good fun. That said even with the race bow I am sure I can pick it up and drag it over my boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.