leong Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 We can skip the check. It's in all good fun. That said even with the race bow I am sure I can pick it up and drag it over my boat. Jason,No bets, but you might want to rethink whether you can lift the front end of a kayak out of the water if the kayak carries a paddler, gear and water in cockpit.Assume the total weight is 310 pounds (kayak: 50 lbs; paddler: 200 lbs.; flooded cockpit: 40 lbs.; misc. gear: 20 lbs.).Also assume that the center of mass of all this weight is at the midpoint between the bow and stern. I think that’s a reasonable assumption. So we have a simple lever problem: you lift from the stern end and gravity pulls the total mass down at the midpoint. So you have a force mechanical advantage of 2. So for the given example, you have to lift with a force of 155 lbs. (310/2).That’s an awful lot of weight to lift while you’re leaning over in your cockpit. Not many people could do it. Okay, besides you, maybe Lorrie could.On the other hand, perhaps the bouncing water might help (you’re down while the other kayak is up)Respectfully,LeonPSLorrie, you can be sure I won’t “stand my ground” (like the FL law allows) and defend myself when you come after me. I’ll sprint away with my wings as fast as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The upside is that this rescue is fairly simple when helping someone that has a bombproof roll. The downside is you do take on some degree of risk to damaging the deck and or combing of your boat according to JC. My big concern is the definite damage you do to your spray skirt. (see pics below).Okay, in case you haven’t read between the lines here’s why I think the “dump” rescue is too risky for real life conditions. Perhaps it’s good for stupid kayak tricks.The biggest risk of the dump rescue is not a torn sprayskirt. Do you really want another kayak paddling towards your broadside in rough water? Obviously, the bow of a kayak hitting you is a much more serious risk than a torn sprayskirt.If you think this can’t possibly happen take a look at this video. I was following (at what I thought was a safe distance) behind a training partner who was paddling my white Epic. Going between the two Misery Islands, I inadvertently caught a small wave that sent me careening towards the Epic. Fortunately, I was able to change direction in time. Imagine if I was originally aimed at the broadside of the Epic? Respectfully, especially for safety,-Leonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO6ujyZhvlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scamlin Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Leon:"Who’s strong enough to drag a boat across your lap if it’s full of water with the captain in the cockpit?"Without having tried this myself, my impression is that the combination of rescuer edging and water-filled boat momentum gets the boat up on the cockpit, not the strength of the rescuer.Cheers,Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Without having tried this myself, my impression is that the combination of rescuer edging and water-filled boat momentum gets the boat up on the cockpit, not the strength of the rescuer.Yes, I also got that impression from the demo video. I was referring to the case where the water-filled boat has no momentum; i.e. you have to lift and slide it. Apparently, some say the dump maneuver is still possible in that case. That may be true. But I don’t think it would work with a plumb-bow kayak because you’d have to lift it before sliding it. Still, some say that even that could be accomplished.My answer is that the dump rescue is too dangerous to perform in conditions (see my earlier post for the reason why). Besides, why bother with such a risky rescue technique when the T-rescue and/or rafting up and pumping works very well?-Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 If you name something THE DUMP, you're already on a slippery slope.in the absence of smilies let me close this with LOL and j.k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Perhaps a better name for the “dump” is the “catch 22” maneuver. Those that have a bombproof roll will never have to do it. Those that don’t have a bombproof roll shouldn’t attempt it. :-) :-) :-)Gotta go now, I’m racing in less than an hour.-Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Brambor wrote: "If you name something The Dump, you're already on a slippery slope" -- I might add that that slope would be much more slippery in the UK, where taking a dump means something <quite> unassociated with sea kayaking! ;^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Brambor wrote: "If you name something The Dump, you're already on a slippery slope" -- I might add that that slope would be much more slippery in the UK, where taking a dump means something <quite> unassociated with sea kayaking! ;^)Isn't the saying the same in the states? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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