Zdarsky shelter vs bivy bag

[josko]

I've been carrying one of those 'group shelters' aka Zdarsky huts, recently checked it out and concluded I'd be a lot better off in a sleeping bag and bivy bag. It's not that much more room in the boat. It got me to wondering whether those shelters still have a purpose, or whether we dutifully carry them for some other reason.

What do people carry in the boat for a winter 'oh $hit' situation?

Edited January 30, 2014 by josko

[Phil Allen]

is a "Zdarsky hut" what the Brits call a Bothy bag or sometimes an nylon Igloo? Lightweight multi person floor-less shelter? If so, I carry both the multi person shelter and a very light weight bivy bag in the winter. The Bothy is great for a quick group warm up out of the wind. The bivy (along with a puffy coat, puffy pants, hat and mittens) is for me if I have to sit for more than a short while.

best

Phil

[Suz]

I don't know what a Zdarsky hut is either. I do carry year round a lightweight multi person floor less shelter - a 4-6 person one. I think it would work well to improvise an overnight situation if necessary. For added safety, I bring along extra layers, a cag, a heavy duty garbage bag, a 2' x 4' pad. I don't pack extra coat as Phil does but think I probably should. I do have an old coat of Werner's that instead of donating I think I will pack.

Although, I have to say I have not gotten out this winter at all. (Can't find that embarrassed smiley face to include with this)

Suz

[josko]

A 'Zdarsky hut' is indeed a multi-person, floor-less shelter, sort of a big bag to wrap around several people to keep warm. Looking at it, though, it would seem that a sleeping bag/bivy sack would be much more effective for both keeping warm and rewarming someone. So I'm wondewring how those two complement each other.

[Phil Allen]

I'd say it's hard to have conversations or share a snack if everyone is wrapped up in their individual bivy sacks. I guess it depends on what one looks for in shelter. If I know the odds were good that I might spend the night out the bivy would be my choice. If I and my buddies needed a quick snack out of the rain then the hut is the way to go.

Phil

[EEL]

From very limited, but nevertheless real world, experience, it is amazing how warm it gets in one of the "igloos" and, consequently, how effective it is for warming someone up or just providing a cozy place for a group during a bit of nasty stuff. You can brew up in one if careful...very careful. Having a vacuum is much better of course. A bivy and sleeping bag would seem to be better for an individual staying out a night as Phil indicates. To use that combination to warm someone you either have to have a sleeping bag big enough for two people or a variety of containers for warm water to place in the bag to warm the person. So I'd say they compliment each other more than one would serve as well as the other for both tasks.

As to treating hypothermia in the "wild", it much easier described and discussed than it is to do. Classic story is a Fall leadership or something course where they did a simulated drill of dealing with hypothermia above treeline near the Lake of the Clouds hut on Mt. Washington. The designated victim actually became hypothermic while the group treated them for hypothermia. Prevention is worth a tom of cure in the "wild".

Ed Lawson

[rfolster]

Josko, Phil and Ed have it right. Some of us up-and-coming kayakers that are investing in more advanced safety equipment are purchasing bothy bags with the idea that we can gather a group underneath it for shared warmth and comradery, or merely to discuss the bigger question "what do we do now?". Since those of us purchasing them are far outnumbered by other NSPN paddlers that just prefer to be equipment with what they need for simple day paddling, having a couple of people with shelters on a group trip is not a bad idea.

If you are curious about how both bivys and group shelters might compliment each other, I have offered a scenario on the Hypo-Kit thread. However, I feel I might be in the vast minority in that mindset.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Bearded Recluse

[Michael_Crouse]

Bivy and sleeping bag are good for an unexpected over night, you'll want a sleeping pad too.

I wouldn't want to put an injured or unreliable person in a bivy. I want to be able to monitor them. We learned to burrito wrap people so we could still look at them, check vitals, etc...

If you're thinking about just warming yourself up on shore a cag, or poncho with a coat and a fleece hat a gloves should work.

I think the only combo of gear that might work for both purposes is an Exped duo bivy and a dream walker sleeping bag. A long coat, poncho, a cheap blue tarp and some para cord would work too, just more complicated to pitch the tarp compared to crawling into a bivy.

I have a large and small bothy, I like the small one for hiking or X country skiing, the large heavy one goes in the kayak.

I had a group of 7 or 8 paddlers in my emergency shelter, it was amazing how quickly they warmed up. If I didn't own it the trip would have been called off instead of shortened.