gyork Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 ........... a few to get people thinking.From last year: http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8276&hl=%2Bcold+%2Bweather http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8251&hl=%2Bcold+%2Bweather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzert Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Peter, I certainly depend on my JetBoil and I have not tested its operation in less than 20 degree weather. Hopefully, I will before the year is over. It makes me think about how often I have tested my tow rope and yet my stove could be an even greater piece of safety equipment. From the jetboil faq ... Does Jetboil work in cold weather? All canister stoves suffer a performance drop in cold weather. The colder the fuel, the lower the vapor pressure, and the lower the burner output. The result can be noticeably longer boil times and difficulty lighting the burner with the built-in piezoelectric ignitor. Jetpower’s lower firing rate reduces canister cooling and increases performance. Jetpower fuel, with propane, helps mitigate cold weather problems. We suggest that you keep the canister in a warm pocket between uses and remove it immediately prior to heating your food. Carry an extra canister and keep it warm to swap out with a cold one when necessary, and always carry matches or a lighter as backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The efficiency of canister stoves depends on temp., altitude, and amount of remaining fuel. At sea level they drop off quite a bit and, as others have said, keeping them warm is part of the game.One reason cold weather bags are often larger is you end up spending a good deal of time in it, you need room to add and remove clothing, and you keep all sorts of things in the bag like canisters.Of course you can always bury things in snow to keep them "warm" as in no colder than around 30F. Seriously.Wool is wonderful. Many advantages. To me on of the biggest is how warm and dry it can feel even when damp if not wet. You never forget how great Dachstein mitts were for keeping your hands warm. Second what Suz said, wool next to skin and synthetics the next layer.Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 and another thing: since few things can be less appealing than exiting your toasty sleeping bag and tent in the middle of the night : have a Nalgene bottle or other suitable vessel in the tent dedicated to the one task of , well , making it unnecessary to leave your tent in the middle of the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Hey Barry,Thank you for the info on the JetBoil! During a recent kayak camping trip, I was having my "Maxwell House" moment at 6:00AM and the temps were ~32 degrees. The JetBoil was acting very different. Low key, like me, and I was not sure what the problem was due to. Now I know! The canisters will be in my sleeping bag on all winter trips!On a separate topic, I love Ibex wool clothing for layering under the dry suit as well as gloves and hats. I also love Arc'teryx clothing for synthetic layers over the wool, outer layers made with Gore Tex, as well as gloves and hats. I have never been uncomfortable in cold weather with this combination, but I hope to further test these products with December kayak trips.Yes, Peter, the approach you recommend is very helpful. John Carmody clued me in last year and it was among his best coaching!Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I would say to each their own as far as "going" in a bottle in the tent. ....I'm sure you realize what you will be sleeping in if there is a miss....I suppose practice, practice, practice for that one ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Also good to have battle marked visually and by feel.OTOH, the stars are so bright in the middle of a cold, clear night.Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzert Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi Warren,Would love to hear if you have done any winter camping trips so far. On the topic of stoves and winter this article caught my attention. "We found a big rock that we could sleep under," he said. "We tried to light a fire, but the matches didn't work. We couldn't make food because our can of gas was too cold. There was no pressure in it."Read more: http://www.wmur.com/news/nh-news/Stranded-hikers-found-on-Mt-Lafayette/-/9857858/17955774/-/l97taxz/-/index.html#ixzz2H1qVW0QaThere was a related discussion on vftt.org (thanks to Rene my other favorite discussion board!) in which a number of people recommended the Svea 123R stove based on it's reliability (brass parts) and cold weather ability.Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 RE: Svea 123Amazing folks are still thinking of and recommending the 123. Mine must be nearly 40 years old and works as it did when I bought it. It is among the elect group of gear that deserves the description as "bulletproof".I don't know if still available, but at one time Svea sold a pump that fit over the pressure relief valve which made it easy to prime and start in cold temps. It is no doubt a classic stove and folks have used them for decades without problems.Svea also made a nice cookset just for the 123 which was smaller that the one made by Sigg and provided a very compact unit. The 123 would run long enough on a single tank to handle a long weekend.Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 RE: Svea 123 Amazing folks are still thinking of and recommending the 123. Mine must be nearly 40 years old and works as it did when I bought it. It is among the elect group of gear that deserves the description as "bulletproof". I don't know if still available, but at one time Svea sold a pump that fit over the pressure relief valve which made it easy to prime and start in cold temps. It is no doubt a classic stove and folks have used them for decades without problems. Svea also made a nice cookset just for the 123 which was smaller that the one made by Sigg and provided a very compact unit. The 123 would run long enough on a single tank to handle a long weekend. Ed LawsonI know someone that picked one up on e-bay with the pump this summer. It's a classic stove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Barry,Originally the plan was to camp during a weekend in December prior to Christmas. The days we chose were cold, windy and the wind direction would have made our camp site extra cold. So, the tip was cancelled. Rob and I are planning to attend the REI workshop on Winter Camping, January 10, 2013 at the Reading location. We hope to gather more ideas and hopefully use those ideas during a camping trip sometime prior to April.By the way, on this thread Jason pointed out a fuel product ( Primus Power Gas Fuel at KTP) that will work with my JetBoil. I am going to try this approach and see how well I do.Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 This topic began with a discussion on sea ice. Probably Saturday's outgoing tide would be a good one to watch as there is plenty of ice in the rivers right now. I drove along the Merrimac today through Amesbury/Merrimac and saw quite a bit loose and floating. A good place to observe would be from the mouth of the Merrimac, either in Salisbury at the State Reservation or from the Plum Island side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnHuth Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 OK, I'm curious now, at what temperature will we get sea ice? I remember some years back when the ferries crossing Nantucket Sound had to stop operations because the darn water was so viscous, the trip took too long. The sea is really weird looking when the sea ice starts to form in it, because the wave action and the way salt water freezes kind of makes it different from fresh water. Anyone notice this? Not to sound like an old hippy or anything, but it's "kinda trippy looking". Here's a nice video of sea ice with some swell in the Bering Sea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I remember some years back when the ferries crossing Nantucket Sound had to stop operations because the darn water was so viscous, the trip took too long. John,The ferry reminds me of a kayaking problem that I investigated last winter. How much does cold water paddling slow you down? So I computed a kayak’s frictional resistance as a function of water temperature. If my math model is correct, it takes about 6% more power in the winter than the summer to overcome the frictional drag of paddling at 5 knots. The additional power to overcome frictional drag is due to the increased coefficient of friction. In my frictional drag model the coefficient of friction is inversely proportional to the log of the Reynolds number. But R increases with increasing temperature as both density and viscosity decrease. I suspect that there is some real-world wave resistance dependence on temperature too; however, the temperature effect is probably negligible at normal paddling speeds and water temperatures. Besides, I haven’t been able to find any wave resistance model that incorporates viscosity. Hmm, perhaps this is too technical to continue here. Oh, well.- Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 On 11/9/2012 at 11:30 AM, bazzert said: From the jetboil faq ... Does Jetboil work in cold weather? All canister stoves suffer a performance drop in cold weather. The colder the fuel, the lower the vapor pressure, and the lower the burner output. The result can be noticeably longer boil times and difficulty lighting the burner with the built-in piezoelectric ignitor. Jetpower’s lower firing rate reduces canister cooling and increases performance. Jetpower fuel, with propane, helps mitigate cold weather problems. We suggest that you keep the canister in a warm pocket between uses and remove it immediately prior to heating your food. Carry an extra canister and keep it warm to swap out with a cold one when necessary, and always carry matches or a lighter as backup. Primus has new fuel that should help with winter camping: http://www.thegearcaster.com/2016/01/primus-winter-gas.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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