Sea Kayaks I've known and loved!

[Gcosloy]

These are personal anecdotes about boats I’ve owned and liked. Your experience may vary. My first serious sea kayak was the Chatham 16, a marvelous rough water boat that excelled at surfing and an easy roller. Above 4k that I rarely venture the Chatham gets harder to paddle faster and some may find the strong stability makes the boat a bit stodgy. I thought the Chatham 17 would be faster but this was not to be so. Then I got a used Explorer and what a difference, more active primary, seemingly faster and excelled at pretty much everything: turning, rough water, following seas, surfing. Very a brief time on two separate occasions I bought a used Nordkapp LV and wound up selling them both with less than a seasons use. While the boat had everything going for it: fast, great turner, and surfer and perhaps the easiest fastest roller of all, it lacked sufficient stability that I could remain comfortable in it during a long day on bumpy water. Big swells were fine; I had it in up to 6’ beam swells with no problem-just the bumpy sometimes-confused water gave me the shpilkus. (Nervousness). I then got the Impex Force Cat 4 which is arguably the best expedition long boat since the Explorer: fast, great turner on edge, comfortable cockpit and perhaps the best so far in rough water. The Force feels like your paddling a Lincoln town car; all the bumps just get soaked up. Next I got the NDK Romany which behaves similar to the Explorer except it’s a little more playful and a great rocks boat. Not as fast as the Explorer though but the lower volume was welcomed. On a lark I just picked up a Boréal Ellesmere: at 44 lbs. light and a rounded and hard chinned hull it is fast, perhaps not as fast as the Force 4 but it feels faster. The boat is 17’ and turns like a 15’ boat when edged and the chines dig in. Primary is very tender but secondary is strong, making for a very active and playful ride. I haven’t surfed it yet but think it might require a lot more attention: this is a boat for a skilled paddler or one who wants a challenge. I have demoed many more boats as well and while demos are not as informative as owning a boat over time I can report that I was quite impressed with the Cetus MV and also the Atlantic. I’d love to hear about others experiences with the boats I’ve reminisced about or other boats as well. Weather will be poor for the next few days so this might be a reasonable diversion.

[Cath]

Gene -

I have been watching for replies - everyone else must be having too much fun in the wind. It's gusty where I am anyway.

I noticed that you have paddled both the Chatham 16 and 17. I have paddled a number of plastic Neckys, and a fiberglass Necky Tahsis. Right now I am mainly using a fiberglass Chatham 16. I love it on the bigger rivers and in the waves but it is a beast for me to handle against the wind. I am working on skeg use but people have mentioned that my bow sits out of the water and I think the issue is likely related to my weight as I am 5 ft tall and 96 pounds. I have been looking into a fiberglass Chatham 17, thinking that it might sit lower in the water for me and be faster, but it sounds like it may not be as much of an improvement as I would like. I have had people suggest the Eliza - I am not sure if it would be any better or not. The cockpit is actually a bit wider than the Chathams. I am not sure how it is for speed, or in the wind. If anyone has any experience with the Eliza please chime in.

I did add a couple of gallons of water to the front of the Chatham 16 (I put one in the bulkhead and one in the cockpit) the last time I was out in wind and that seemed to help. It might not always be convenient to do that. I am not sure that I want to automatically do it. I took along the containers and filled them during a rest stop once we got into wind.

Does anyone have any ideas or comments? What do other smaller people use? I have stuck to Neckys so far because they are carried by my local shop and I can get them reasonably. I do plan to eventually try out some other types as opportunity comes along.

Cath

[risingsn]

Hi Cath, My wife Nancy's is the same size as you are. Her first composite kayak was an Impex Mystic. At 14' this a great boat for a smaller paddle, excellent handling, a good turn of speed, good in the surf & in glass it only weighs #40. I'm 5'7 & #155, I loved it in the surf. She said that you would have to pry it from her cold dead hand if you wanted it. Then one day she tried a P&H Vela (which she now owns), 15'8" x 20" wide. This is a sports car of a kayak. The initial stability is lighter than the Mystic, it will turn on a dime & is very fast. These are 2 very different boats. You will find the Mystic to be very solid, where as the Vela will require more of your attention until you get accustomed to it. I would strongly recommend that you find them & paddle them. Though they are shorter than the boat you have or a longer boat you will probably find that it will be easier for you to 'keep up' in a boat that is appropriately sized for you. I think you will be hard pressed to find a 'long boat' (even an LV) that will be easy for you to control. Of course the proof is in the paddling. Well, there is my 2 cents ($2.50 w/ the coming inflation). Thanks, Chuck

[Gcosloy]

Cath,

You are definitely too light for the Chatham. While the cockpit is rather narrow the boat is really quite large in volume. I was 175 lbs. and found it ideal for the boat. I would check out the Eliza!

[lhunt]

Hi, Cath,

Yes, "smaller" boats are never small enough, even for me, and I'm much bigger than you are (135 lb.) After paddling a boat designed for a 200 lb. payload I just got my custom made stripper (the infamous "Mustang Sally"), which is designed for a 160 lb. payload. What a difference! I'm no longer bobbing about like a cork, and there is less weathercocking. The new boat has a much shorter rudder (it's for racing so, yes, I use a rudder), but I don't really miss the extra 3", because the boat is down in the water where she should be.

Probably other people know more about the smaller, less racy sea kayaks. At one time, when I was looking for such a boat, I felt that the Eliza, etc., were all too short. OK, these boats are not necessarily designed for "straight and fast" (like mine is), but still... 15 feet seems short for a sea kayak. The waterline is probably, what, 13 feet? That's not much longer than a rec boat. Chatham 16 has a 13' waterline, too. It is definitely designed for maneuverability, not for tracking or speed. All that overhang comes at a price.

The QCC Q10 is designed for smaller people and is a straight tracker and fast for its length. It is also quite short, but at least most of its length is waterline. But these straight boats won't excel at rock play or surfing, it's not what they are designed for.

I also paddled the Force Cat 3 once, that was nice. It wasn't very rough that day, but I did feel like it was tracking well. It gets pretty good reviews by the lighter women. I think if I decided to get a "regular" (non-racing) sea kayak that would be my first choice. But for your weight, even that will be a little too big.

I definitely feel that if the Chatham 16 is too big for you, the Chatham 17 certainly will be, too.

A custom-made boat like mine is more expensive (maybe just a little more than the suggested retail price for most carbon boats). The huge advantage is that you can choose your own design. If the boat is painted there is no special maintenance (varnishing, etc.)

Anyway, those are some opinions. That and $3.52 will get you a frappuccino (!)

Lisa

[Katherine]

Hi Cath,

If you can come on the ladies paddle you can certainly try my boat, Valley Avocet LV. And I can't speak for the others but the possibility exists for you to try others, maybe an Eliza...

[Lallen]

Cath, a number of small paddlers do seem to be very fond of the Avocet LV, as Katherine suggests. My first boat was the Montauk, which is a bigger version of the Mystic. It served me well for a number of years. I now paddle a Cetus LV, which I love, but that might be too big a boat for you.

[prudenceb]

Cath = if you end up interested in a Montauk (see Lorrie's post above), I know someone who has a carbon-kevlar one in great condition for sale.

pru

[leong]

Does anyone have any ideas or comments? What do other smaller people use? I have stuck to Neckys so far because they are carried by my local shop and I can get them reasonably. I do plan to eventually try out some other types as opportunity comes along.

Cath

Cath,

I think it might be useful to understand a little physics of the kayak to understand why most common kayaks are unsuitable for someone not quite 100 pounds. Every kayak has a design draft, the optimal depth of the deepest portion of the hull below the waterline. Accordingly, there is also a design displacement, the total weight of the kayak and contents that will sink the kayak to its design draft. Of course, there’s an allowed variation around the design draft before the kayak’s handling characteristics and stability degrade too much. However, if you’re much too light to sink the kayak to anywhere near the design draft, the kayak will not handle well (you’ll feel like a cork bobbing around in the wind).

Unfortunately, most kayak manufacturers don’t provide the various parameters like design draft and design displacement for their kayak models. If they did it would be a lot easier to narrow down to those kayaks suitable for you. Some of the manufacturers provide general guidelines for paddler weight, though. However, the manufacturers are trying to sell as many kayaks as they can, so the paddler-weight ranges tend to be too generous.

A lighter-weight paddler just needs a lower volume kayak; that’s due to the physics of the problem. Lower volume can be obtained by reducing the kayak’s length, width or some combination of the two. Because the design data is not available to you, you need another way to choose a suitable kayak.

I think the very best way for someone of your weight to choose a suitable kayak is to talk to very capable kayakers that are of similar weight. Our very own NSPN member, Les Beale, (an expert paddler) is small like you. I don’t think that she’d mind it if I recommend that you touch base with her (perhaps a PM to her). She uses the Impex Force 3 as one of her kayaks and a very low volume Greenland style kayak as another. Actually, you can see her in action doing Greenland stick and hand rolls here.

- Leon

[Lbeale]

Hi Leon,

Thank you greatly for your kind words regarding my paddling skills and in calling me an "expert" paddler. I am unfortunately only minor league compared to many of the more esteemed paddlers in NSPN.

I am not as small as Cath - on good days I can get up to 108-110 in body weight - but whose counting. The Force 3 works for me with padding and the Tahe Greenland has the smallest size cockpit width in FG - a little over 17 with an ocean cockpit. But I pad the Tahe for tight fit. The Tahe is a fun boat for lots of different conditions but not good for rockplay due to its light layup.

The Tiderace Explore has a small cockpit close to the same size as the Force 3. The NDK Pilgrim is a sweet boat but too big for me. If I was to get a new boat, I would look at the Sterling out on the west coast. It is expensive (5 grand) but the builder makes the boat to your specs - glorious for the smaller paddler. The boat gets great reviews and it is a beauty. I would sell all three of my boats (Force 3, Tahe Greenland, MakoXT surfski) for that boat because it is suppose to handle so well. The problem is to demo it, you need to go out to Seattle - no distributors on the east coast.

Les

I have tried the avocet and I find it pokey for me. The Nordcapp LV is another choice but the cockpit is slightly larger than the Force 3.

[subaruguru]

Cath,

Paddling two 17+ footers of identical weight, beam, cockpit and customized seats, it's been fascinating for me to compare a long waterline Force 5 with a short waterline Vaag.

Whereas the Vaag needs LOTS of skeg to maintain reasonable tracking...and to counter windcocking, the Force almost NEVER requires any skeg unless strong winds prevail.

Indeed, cocking with the Vaag can get "locked" so that withdrawing the skeg is required in order to strongly sweep-turn a 90 and THEN redeploy the skeg to maintain a track.

I mention this because I believe that your mass is indeed insufficient to keep a short waterline vessel on track.

I've seen many light-to-medium mass paddlers VERY successfully manage a Force 3 in tougher conditions, so would recommend you try one. It's a little less "playful" than others mentioned, but stronger tracking and simply easier to manage in condition, especially with a light load. The long waterline keeps it from feeling quick in initial acceleration, but it's a nice solid, speedy locomotive once under way.

I've been paddling the Vaag a lot lately, as it's so much fun, and loves to surf (unlike the Forces, which zig-zag in following seas), but for covering DISTANCE in most conditions the easy choice is the Force.

[Cath]

Thanks so much to everyone who has offered insight and advice. It is incredibly helpful. I have a lot to review and think about and boats to seek out and try. Don't hesitate to continue to offer advice - I will certainly read it all.

Gene - sorry to monopolize your topic so much. Thanks for the opportunity to learn so much.

Katherine - I do hope to make it on a ladies paddle, though sounds like it may have to be next year. Thank you for the invitation - it certainly makes me feel like I would be welcome and I will definitely try to make one or more. I would enjoy meeting more group members.

Cath