Impex Skeg Repair...HELP!

[subaruguru]

Seeking the skeg guru:

Thought my Force 5's skeg had just picked up a rock, result being its stuck closed position. But nothing in there, and a very hard tug with pliers was required to pull it down. Then it wouldn't push back up past about 1/2-way, despite jiggling the UN-kinked control end.

So I left stuck 1/2 way down for yesterday's paddle, but even that's too much resistance for easy lean-turning the Forces.

After a quick Google-check I hear of a variety of geometries and fasteners used back there, making repair not obvious.

So I got in there with a flashlight and see a fully sealed system with the in/outside cable "hole" secured by a plastic hex nut. But as I jiggle the system externally...both from the controller end or push/pulling the skeg itself, I can't feel ANY movement at either end of the cable.

Since it's a sealed sheath system (at least until it leaves the hex groomet into the skeg "box", I can't see where there would be a kink possibility (again, the controller end is unkinked, but unable to be budged.

I suppose there could be a more "open" space near the skeg attachment that can allow a rock "punched" skeg to kink its cable at the skeg end. Is THAT the likely culprit?

Or is it possible that the relatively sturdy and stiff cable somehow just seizes unkinked somewhere in its run?

It'd be helpful have a hint so I'll know whether to buy a new cable before I tear it apart, or even drag it to CRCK if it's a three-handed job.

Thanks a bunch.

Ern

[sidcohen]

Ern,

Don't forget to contact Impex too.

North American Customer Service

info@impexkayak.com

828-505-1382

[Phil Allen]

Seeking the skeg guru:

Thought my Force 5's skeg had just picked up a rock, result being its stuck closed position. But nothing in there, and a very hard tug with pliers was required to pull it down. Then it wouldn't push back up past about 1/2-way, despite jiggling the UN-kinked control end.

So I left stuck 1/2 way down for yesterday's paddle, but even that's too much resistance for easy lean-turning the Forces.

After a quick Google-check I hear of a variety of geometries and fasteners used back there, making repair not obvious.

So I got in there with a flashlight and see a fully sealed system with the in/outside cable "hole" secured by a plastic hex nut. But as I jiggle the system externally...both from the controller end or push/pulling the skeg itself, I can't feel ANY movement at either end of the cable.

Since it's a sealed sheath system (at least until it leaves the hex groomet into the skeg "box", I can't see where there would be a kink possibility (again, the controller end is unkinked, but unable to be budged.

I suppose there could be a more "open" space near the skeg attachment that can allow a rock "punched" skeg to kink its cable at the skeg end. Is THAT the likely culprit?

Or is it possible that the relatively sturdy and stiff cable somehow just seizes unkinked somewhere in its run?

It'd be helpful have a hint so I'll know whether to buy a new cable before I tear it apart, or even drag it to CRCK if it's a three-handed job.

Thanks a bunch.

Ern

Ernie-

Check and see if perchance the slider bar at the skeg control box has "broken" loose from its mount. It's just held in place with heat gun glue and I had the one on my older currituck get loose enough such that the skeg slider would get trapped in the down position. If that's not the issue, release the skeg slider (hex nut) from the cable and see how pulling the skeg out does. The enclosed sheath is pretty flexible, so it's possible to kink it several inches back from the skeg itself (at least thats what happened to me once).

Good luck

Phil

[subaruguru]

Ernie-

Check and see if perchance the slider bar at the skeg control box has "broken" loose from its mount. It's just held in place with heat gun glue and I had the one on my older currituck get loose enough such that the skeg slider would get trapped in the down position. If that's not the issue, release the skeg slider (hex nut) from the cable and see how pulling the skeg out does. The enclosed sheath is pretty flexible, so it's possible to kink it several inches back from the skeg itself (at least thats what happened to me once).

Good luck

Phil

Hi Guys,

Impex closed at 4 today, so I got impatient and decided to rip it out...in the rain...while on the roof rack. Oy.

Once I got the hexed collet off (long reach!) and found no hints I loosened the controller end and pulled the skeg out, seeing a major compound bend right behind said heat-glued mount. Probably happened when I slammed onto a rock with skeg deployed a while back. Decided to grab two pliers and dekink, lube, and finally thread it back together, but of course it wouldn't work until I figured out that the hex cllet acts to pinch the cable sheath into position. Loosening, positioning the sheath, and retightening the collet seems to result in decent function.

It was suggested that I might as well install a new cable and skeg (they're sold together) is a good idea, but as it rained harder I decided to just persevere and save what I had.

We'll see....

Thanks for the tips.

Ern

[rwolson]

I thought I'd bring up an old thread and relay my findings.

I just fixed my skeg on a For Cat 5. I washed my boat twice since my last trip into the salt about three weeks ago. My skeg hung up. I sprayed the slide area with WD40 Silicone.

Last night I found two great articles describing skeg repair on the Force boats and other kayaks. I'll post here in case someone needs the info.

http://www.kayakacademy.com/pages/tips/Skeg_Repair/Impex_Sea_Kayak_Skeg_Cable_Repair.html - Force specific

http://www.kayakacademy.com/pages/tips/skeg_cable.html - articles for Impex Force Above link), Valley, Tiderace, Wilderness and others.

http://impextest.blogspot.com/2008/07/skeg-cable-troubles.html - Impex specific. Looks like a very simple procedure to remove the skeg. I don't know about installing the cable; maybe some "fun".

I hope the info helps someone,

Rich

[Brian Nystrom]

The first article seems pretty good, but there are a couple of their recommendations that I would not follow:

1. 3m 5200 is a poor - and rather pointless - choice for bonding the new cable into the skeg. Any epoxy will do the trick, including the "5 minute" varieties, which will allow you to get the boat back in service quickly. They don't actually cure in 5 minutes, but the boat should be usable after an hour or so of curing time at room temperature. Higher temps will cure the glue even faster. When you need to change the cable again, epoxy can be softened with heat.
2. WD40 is a "water displacer" - hence the name - and it's a feeble lubricant at best (BTW, it is not "silicone").There are a variety of Teflon (PTFE) and wax-based lubes that are far superior. There are also lubes made specifically for wet environments, such as Boeshield T-9 that work well. For the cyclists out there, any chain or cable lube for bikes will work fine for skeg cables.

[rwolson]

_{Thanks Brian, I saw the WD40 at the hardware store thinking a good choice. Funny, I didn’t see any Teflon spray or I didn’t look hard enough. I'm considering pulling the cable and spraying with Teflon.}

_{The 3M 5200 threw me. I only found tubes online or at Lowes. A bit expensive considering I might use just a dab and rest of tube sits around. The epoxy sounds like a good way to go provided it sticks to the skeg. However, I don’t need to replace the cable at the moment.}

Edited May 20, 2013 by rwolson

[Pintail]

Aside: Brian, do you know if WD-41 is yet available, commercially?

Regarding skegs: I have always known them to be a pain-in-the-a*se! They are more trouble than they are worth, although NDK, as it was, used to make those rope-controlled ones that were easy to fix in the field (I mean: on the beach!) Ernie: in the attachments that someone quoted, one of the first statements by Valley was something like: "...most likely caused by landing with skeg deployed"!

I think everyone should practise paddling on edge for periods of time, to get used to cross-wind conditions with control by other means than skeg...

[Brian Nystrom]

Aside: Brian, do you know if WD-41 is yet available, commercially?

Regarding skegs: I have always known them to be a pain-in-the-a*se! They are more trouble than they are worth, although NDK, as it was, used to make those rope-controlled ones that were easy to fix in the field (I mean: on the beach!) Ernie: in the attachments that someone quoted, one of the first statements by Valley was something like: "...most likely caused by landing with skeg deployed"!

I think everyone should practise paddling on edge for periods of time, to get used to cross-wind conditions with control by other means than skeg...

Christopher, you can usually find WD-41 in the same aisle as "Preparation I".

I've got skegs on all of my boats except the one I built and I find them very useful. The only boat I've owned that didn't have or need one was a Betsy Bay Aral, but I sold that years ago.

Personally, I think that rope skegs are a self-fulfilling-prophecy; they're so unreliable that it's critical that they're easy to repair in the field! Most cable skegs are field-repairable with little more than an Allen wrench or two and those that use glued cables can be modified to use a set-screw instead, making them easier and faster to service.

I agree that people need to have the skills to deal with any type of equipment malfunction on the water.

[spider]

I must be lucky I use boats with skegs or rudders many a time with no problems. I think there must be some lurking danger of using a skeg but have yet to find it.

Course it is good to practice pretending that either one or the other is broken, though for me it's a nice practice but seems to border on masochism if I stay at it too long.

If one or the other brokedown on a trip knowing how to do a field repair, would be a huge help, or just limp along till a better day.

if I were to make an analogy would a jammed skeg be like a drysuit with the zipper frozen open...? and if that were the case would it be better to learn how to paddle without one...?

...just rhetorical questions for a rainy day...

[Phil Allen]

....

if I were to make an analogy would a jammed skeg be like a drysuit with the zipper frozen open...? and if that were the case would it be better to learn how to paddle without one...?

...just rhetorical questions for a rainy day...

I'd argue that the boat still functions without the skeg, drysuit on the other hand....

[Gcosloy]

Excellent lube for skeg cable is silicone paste. You can get a small amount in hardware stores that sell Culligan water filter systems. The O ring when you replace the filter gets smeared with the silicone to insure a good seal. Eldredges in Kittery and York has it; both are Ace hardware sites. The paste unlike a liquid or spray lasts.

[rwolson]

I agree, best paddling practice, learn to edge.

I always test my skeg just in case finding it bound up. I think I'll pull it and lube just so I understand the process. Lots of good info on the thread. Thanks

[EEL]

Seems to me "best paddling practices" would also include using a skeg when appropriate. There are most definitely times when using a skeg is far more efficient and appropriate than not using one.

Ed Lawson

[Doug]

Seems to me "best paddling practices" would also include using a skeg when appropriate. There are most definitely times when using a skeg is far more efficient and appropriate than not using one.

Ed Lawson

I agree Ed. Especially appropriate when setting a specific heading in wind and current to maintain a course without unnecessary corrective paddling efforts.

I don't get it why people make comments shunning the use of a skeg. If it makes them feel superior to us skeg users I simply have to dismiss their comments and place them in the "stupid file"!

All boats and paddlers differ in design and skill levels. Skegs are there for a reason and I never met anyone that special ordered a boat without a skeg.

[Gcosloy]

Learning to paddle in adverse conditions without a skeg is something we never really practice until we have a skeg that doesn't work and must paddle without. I've had the experience of a skeg fully deployed that could not be raised and then later in the day after tape secured it closed without one. In both situations bow rudders to turn in the first and edging and extended paddle in the second saved the day. While I feel secure to paddle without I will continue to use the skeg to make paddling more efficient-that's what its there for.

[Deb Millar]

While edging is a skill one should never leave home with out, I've yet to meet a higher level coach who pooh-poohed the use of a skeg.

Deb

[jason]

I must be lucky I use boats with skegs or rudders many a time with no problems. I think there must be some lurking danger of using a skeg but have yet to find it.

Course it is good to practice pretending that either one or the other is broken, though for me it's a nice practice but seems to border on masochism if I stay at it too long.

If one or the other brokedown on a trip knowing how to do a field repair, would be a huge help, or just limp along till a better day.

if I were to make an analogy would a jammed skeg be like a drysuit with the zipper frozen open...? and if that were the case would it be better to learn how to paddle without one...?

...just rhetorical questions for a rainy day...

Lots of ways to make a skeg if need be. A line tied to the stern of a kayak dragging in the water will act as a skeg. Some greenland boats have tied on skegs. http://www.qajaqusagallery.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=29764

[Brian Nystrom]

Excellent lube for skeg cable is silicone paste. You can get a small amount in hardware stores that sell Culligan water filter systems. The O ring when you replace the filter gets smeared with the silicone to insure a good seal. Eldredges in Kittery and York has it; both are Ace hardware sites. The paste unlike a liquid or spray lasts.

While silicone grease (that's what the "paste" is) is an excellent lubricant, it tends to attract sand and grit, as does any viscous lubricant. When it comes to lubing cables, the thinner and drier the lube, the better.