Isle of Shoals Sept 16

[subaruguru]

Jason, Christopher, et al.

Given that it has been established that our rear trio maintained a 2.7 knot pace on our return it's not clear that the prior labeling of the trip as either L3 or L4 would have precluded Gene's attendance.

The proof is in the pudding: the group separated for reasons NOT having to do with inability to maintain a reasonable pace.

There will always be faster and slower paddlers, and group effort to stay together simply failed as a fearful paddler raced ahead (with protector), a trailing duo changed course, and the rear trio stayed on original course.

Eventually we'll synthesize a conclusion that includes whether or not the trip should've taken place

because of other criteria, such as timing, whether, less-experienced paddler, etc.

If the rear trio had only been able to maintain, let's say, a 1 knot pace due to inexperience or physical inability then that would be another matter. Likewise if a paddler had slowed to "stall" speed due to illness or injury. But our GPS data shows that reasonable time was made, which earlier seemed to be masked (at least to me) by the "noise" of all the VERTICAL movement!

This is indeed LESS about Gene than is portrayed by responders lately....

Ern

[lhunt]

3 knots, actually, I think, once you remove the rescue stop.

[Gcosloy]

As for this trip this is a clearly a L4 trip. I thought that we covered this all in July when we warned Gene not to attempt this:

http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7136

-Jason

Jason-I may be nit picking but back in July I believe I was given warnings by those who had experienced the trip. It was my decision whether given the facts I should go or not go. In retrospect your posture may be implying that if it was your trip, you'd ask me to stay home. Back in July I took the advise very seriously and avoided a trip where conditions were totally benign all day. At the time not knowing anyone in SMSKN or their skills I thought this may not have been the best trip to introduce myself. As it was I later understood that Barry and perhaps Tyson were on the trip. Sept.16th was different in that I was now aware of the potential dangers but went with six other experienced paddlers all of whose skills I was very familiar with. (Save Bev who is well known to Leon and Lisa.)

This may or may not be relevant: I would never attempt something that was over my head but given the unpredictability of weather, a certain degree of risk is inherent in all these decisions. When and if things go awry I'd like to be with paddlers I know and who know me, all things being equal. This may be hard to put into a formula for Trip Levels but it remains a psychological factor of great import. Simply put I trust and respect the people I paddle with and I think that feeling is reciprocated.

[leong]

As for this trip this is a clearly a L4 trip. I thought that we covered this all in July when we warned Gene not to attempt this:

http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7136

Answer: Gene was well aware that this was a level 4 trip because of earlier posts and other things we discussed. I was certain that he could do it, but just in case, I asked Lisa to stay with me and Gene as a backup when the "sporty" conditions arrived.

I would suggest the following:

1. You should attempting attempting towing in conditions, I think that you will surprised has effective a tow can be even in big conditions.

Answer: I have towed in conditions when towing was needed. Towing wasn’t needed on our IOS trip. No one wanted to be towed and there was no one who thought anyone else should have been towed. Therefore, there was no towing performed. Quod erat demonstrandum.

2. Working on communicating with the group without the radio. Once you need the radio to talk with the group something is wrong.

Answer: We were three separate pods. Communication within each pod was by voice and visual signals. The separation into the three pods has been covered ad nauseam.

3. Use a T rescue as your primary way to rescue others as it will get them back into a dry boat quickly and get them moving along even in conditions.

Answer: I know how to do T-Rescues (in fact I’ve taught them). But, I prefer to get the swimmer back into the boat as fast as possible (that's my preference). But, for this trip a beautiful T-rescue was performed by Bob Levine. So why are we even discussing non-T-rescues? To change my preference? Perhaps you'd also like to decide for me what kind of roll that I should use with my wing paddle, or at what point I should change from the center knee racing position to the thigh grip position. Fine, but this is not he place for it.

I am glad nobody got hurt (I know some have hurt feelings but they will heal) and everybody made it back home.

Answer: Our egos and confidences in our own abilities are safe from all the critisms received so far. But thank you for the most important comment of all that: i.e. nobody got hurt.

front o

-Jason

[EEL]

Thank you for making explicit that which was implicit in your prior posts.

Ed Lawson

[tyson]

Thank you for making explicit that which was implicit in your prior posts.

Ed Lawson

Ummm... context? There have been a whole LOT of "you"s on this thread.

Cheers!

Ty

[leong]

The end. Bye Bye.