Werner Paddle stuck

[nancysan]

Hey, anyone have any good ideas for getting apart a Ferrule System carbon Werner paddle? The fact that it's bent shaft makes it more difficult to get a good grip on separation. I called Werner and they said HOT soapy water. Have rinsed it in that a few times and still can't get it apart. ARG.

Gonna try 303?

[Pintail]

Nancy,

Why don't you try the hot water on <one> side and icy water (or just plain ice) on the <other>?

[bob budd]

It would appear that you don't take the paddle apart each time you use it and rinse the ferrule and/or lubricate it enough. I could suggest other materials to try to separate it such as WD40 but you've probably already thought of them. You do need to allow them to penetrate. As for lubricants, we find silicon lubricants stand up best to the salt water.

P.S. -A greenland paddle does not have this annoying design flaw.

[kevinfre]

I had the same problem with my Werner paddle a couple of years ago. I squirted a little bit of dishwashing liquid in there and I was eventually able to work it loose. Note that's just the dish soap itself, not soapy water. I think the soap is thick enough to stick to the sand and dirt and loosen it up. And it didn't come apart easy - I still had to pull like hell. Let us know what works!

Kevin

[Michael_Crouse]

Be careful not to put stress on the joint when you're puling it apart, in other words pull it straight. Holding the paddle vertically and pulling down will reduce stress on the ferrule.

I had a paddle stick a few years ago, I had to wedge one blade in my trucks roof rack and slowly twist and pull the other half. Twisting won't work if you have the new ferrule system but you will still have to securely hold the other blade/end of paddle, another person holding it didn't work for me.

One fear I have about using water under pressure is that it could actually push the sand and dirt deeper into the ferrule.

[nancysan]

I had the same problem with my Werner paddle a couple of years ago. I squirted a little bit of dishwashing liquid in there and I was eventually able to work it loose. Note that's just the dish soap itself, not soapy water. I think the soap is thick enough to stick to the sand and dirt and loosen it up. And it didn't come apart easy - I still had to pull like hell. Let us know what works!

Kevin

I'll try this. So far nothing seems to work and I don't want to blow out a shoulder trying to separate a paddle ;-) Yes, I did rinse it after most use, but not always. The paddle was laying in the sand (apart), (as was I) and I took off kind of hastily, so guess I got sand in those groovy things.

I love my greenland as a spare, but not to the point of giving up the euro for more power.

[Suz]

It would appear that you don't take the paddle apart each time you use it and rinse the ferrule and/or lubricate it enough. I could suggest other materials to try to separate it such as WD40 but you've probably already thought of them. You do need to allow them to penetrate. As for lubricants, we find silicon lubricants stand up best to the salt water.

P.S. -A greenland paddle does not have this annoying design flaw.

Try saturating a towel and then wrapping that around the ferrule so that you can try and give it a good soak. Hard to soak it in fresh water as it won't exactly fit in a bath tub. Probably just a bit of salt/sand crust.

Suz

[Bill Lord]

Nancy,

Why don't you try the hot water on <one> side and icy water (or just plain ice) on the <other>?

If you try the hot/cold trick, make sure to heat the female side and cool the male, otherwise the joint will get tighter.

[nancysan]

If you try the hot/cold trick, make sure to heat the female side and cool the male, otherwise the joint will get tighter.

Trying Suz suggestion and will let you know of any success

[NPSheehan]

After soaking as Suz and others suggested if you still have problems get another person hold one blade while you hold the other. Tape the button down or have a third person hold it depressed. Thed twist the blade back and forth in minute increments till it gives a little then soak again & repeat. Once there is a little give in twisting it should pull apart. After you get it apart soak the ferule and inside the other shaft end and clean it real good. Apply 303 then wipe dry and be sure to rinse your paddle where they join after every use. I sometimes rinse mine with leftover water from my hydration pack. Salt water when it dries will leave a residue which will quickly build up and cause the paddle to get stuck. My spare paddles get special attention as they are always exposed to salt water which dries over the course of the day.

Neil

[JohnHuth]

I have an old paddle in the "permanently stuck" category. We allow guests in our house, and I was sloppy to not leave a "don't you even think about coming near this gear" sign up. My brother-in-law (the engineer...) and his family stayed over.

When I came down on Friday after work, I saw life jackets littered on the lawn, my paddle stuck together and the kayak upside right, catching rain. My son, who was a wrestler at the time, took one end of the shaft, and I took the other after the soap-trick and the hot/cold trick, and nothing. I was pretty irritated at the whole thing.

[subaruguru]

Why don't you try the hot water on <one> side and icy water (or just plain ice) on the <other>?

Hi Christopher, Nancy et al.

I immediately thought of your hot/cold idea too, but then realized that carbon fiber is a terrible conductor of heat, so it wouldn't make any difference.

But it's also quite inert, too, so if necessary, Nancy, use a penetrating oil that's stronger (thinner) than WD40, like Liquid Wrench, etc.

Once apart I'd wash well, dry, then finish with 303 or a light silicone like Bob suggested.

Ern

[pocky]

I immediately thought of your hot/cold idea too, but then realized that carbon fiber is a terrible conductor of heat, so it wouldn't make any difference.

Not necessarily -- the fact that it's a poor conductor doesn't matter so much if you get directly at the joint. I did something like this on the two "seller told us they were stuck and never going to come apart" paddles we bought -- one carbon fiber and one fiberglass -- and it worked like a charm on both. These actually had a button-hole ferrule system, so I poured a couple of gallons of *extremely* hot water directly on the joint and a bunch of ice water directly *into the ferrule hole* so that it filled the inside of the paddle, and then I twisted and pulled like mad, and it came out on the first try. I had no prior experience doing this with paddles, but plenty with stuck bicycle tubing, so I was pretty sure it would eventually work. This was of course after using penetrant/solvent oil as Ern suggests.

Even if you can't get inside the tube with the cold water, just pour the hot water directly over the joint and try to "shock" the seal. The theory behind this is that the outer material, which is directly in contact with the heat, will expand faster than the inner material, which is not. If the two materials are different, such as an ABS plastic on the inner ferrule surface and a carbon fiber laminate on the outer tube inside, this will work even better because the two materials will expand and contract at different rates even if they were heated evenly, making the shock more drastic.

[Pintail]

Interesting story, Dan; but I had quite forgotten that Ernie is spot-on regarding carbonfibre: Ducati have been putting their exhausts under the seat for years -- and carbonfibre replacements mufflers make for a much cooler ride!

[nancysan]

Interesting story, Dan; but I had quite forgotten that Ernie is spot-on regarding carbonfibre: Ducati have been putting their exhausts under the seat for years -- and carbonfibre replacements mufflers make for a much cooler ride!

Hey, thanks for so many well thought-out suggestions. I tried many of them and the paddle remained stuck. I bought it a few years ago at New England Small Craft so I called Joel up today and he said he'd see what he could do if I came over. He didn't like the idea of applying heat or any lubricant other than WD-40, which is what I had used.

We tied the paddle blade down to a door and between the two of us, held, pulled and tugged and finally got the thing to come loose. He cautioned to always take a paddle apart and rinse. Always avoid sand. Always avoid heat. So I am happy, happy to have my paddle back and want to make a plug for supporting local businesses such as NESC as "full service" and far preferable to internet.

I am convinced the wet rag soaks and WD-40 paved the way for pulling to work, as when I tried this without the tying down, it did not work.

Nancy

[Suz]

Hey, thanks for so many well thought-out suggestions. I tried many of them and the paddle remained stuck. I bought it a few years ago at New England Small Craft so I called Joel up today and he said he'd see what he could do if I came over. He didn't like the idea of applying heat or any lubricant other than WD-40, which is what I had used.

We tied the paddle blade down to a door and between the two of us, held, pulled and tugged and finally got the thing to come loose. He cautioned to always take a paddle apart and rinse. Always avoid sand. Always avoid heat. So I am happy, happy to have my paddle back and want to make a plug for supporting local businesses such as NESC as "full service" and far preferable to internet.

I am convinced the wet rag soaks and WD-40 paved the way for pulling to work, as when I tried this without the tying down, it did not work.

Nancy

Good Job! Perseverance paid off.

I would also suggest that you clean off the WD-40 as I have never heard Danny Mongno suggest any lubricant at all.

Suz

[PeterB]

Good Job! Perseverance paid off.

I would also suggest that you clean off the WD-40 as I have never heard Danny Mongno suggest any lubricant at all.

Suz

I was going to suggest that you needed only water, persistance, and beef on the hoof (the help of someone else pulling on the other end), and it sounds like in Joel you got just that.

I was told to use vegetable oil. rinse regularly . and take paddle apart whenever possible. When I stop for a break, lunch, whatever, I usually take my paddle apart and stow it in my cockpit.

[Pintail]

<We tied the paddle blade down to a door...>

How on earth do you "tie a paddle down", Nancy? And what sort of abuse comes afterwards?

Suzanne, dear: WD-40 is not actually a lubricant, as most people believe: it is in reality a cleaning agent! In fact, I <think> it was developed for naval use (anyone?); but it really excels at cleaning chains! (Oh, and neither is it a rust-preventative)

(Excuse my morning pedantism, all! <How's> yer father?)

[EEL]

it was developed for naval use (anyone?)

This may explain WD-40 to some extent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40

The best story I know about its use was that it was used to soak jet engines from a plane that overshot a runway and ended up in the ocean. By soaking engines in WD-40, the saltwater was displaced and the engine was fine after it dried.

I have been told putting lubricant on tight fitting surfaces ( paddle shafts and skeg cables) can be problematic. Often dirt and other gremlins like residue from salt water will stick to the lubricant and "gum up" the works so to speak.

Ed Lawson

[Pintail]

Thank you for the interesting link, Edward! Despite what the writer asserts, I would <still> maintain that its (WD-40's) rust preventative properties are, at best, short-lived. I have seen too many cases where I or others have thought the product would keep some surface clean and rust-free, only to be disappointed (motorcycle chains, for example).

Much better, real corrosion prevention can be relied on by using Boeing's "Boeshield", an expensive compound that leaves a residue of <waxes> that are not likely to wash or drain away...this stuff is the bees' knees!

Excuse our hijack; but this may be of interest to some...

[bob budd]

WD-40 is readily rinsed so I would be similarly skeptical of its effectiveness as a rust preventitve. Back when cars had distributors it was also used to displace water inside the cap thus restoring the engine if wet, after splashing in a large puddle, etc.

[subaruguru]

WD-40 is readily rinsed so I would be similarly skeptical of its effectiveness as a rust preventitve. Back when cars had distributors it was also used to displace water inside the cap thus restoring the engine if wet, after splashing in a large puddle, etc.

Good memory, Bob.

Christopher, you are SO correct re its inability to prevent oxidation once it blows off. And that's the operative word, as it simply evaporates, leaving almost no residue to prevent corrosion nor attract dirt, nor act as a lubricant. Thus "rinsing" it is automatically accomplished by the wind....

It's interesting that, like DMSO (dimethyl sulfonomide), WD40 is used as a cheap analgesic and lubricating joint and muscle rub by many octogenarians. WD40 had to then add a warning label precluding medical use as the stuff isn't sufficiently filtered against trace toxic metals and other solvents (like maybe benzene?).

Simple placebo effect? These knees are getting older....

Tip: If you want to prevent rust, you gotta use a coating that leaves a sticky-enough residue to prevent air from getting through semi-permanently. Spray-greases work well, or indeed those waxy dribble-on pricey bike lubes. But if the rust "fire" is starting from the otherside of a layer then nothing painted on the "exhaust" side can prevent mother nature's process. Hence it's critical to arrest rust before it finds a second (blind) source of air.

I don't know of a good slick coating for carbon fibre that won't attract dirt nor sand. If a shaft joint suffers from chronic stiction I'd be sure it's clean (use soap, then alcohol or another "fast" drying agent), then hit it with very fine paper or steel wool until ok, paying attention to the inside of the female 1/2 too. I'm going to leave this alone now....

[Michael_Crouse]

Tip: If you want to prevent rust, you gotta use a coating that leaves a sticky-enough residue to prevent air from getting through semi-permanently. Spray-greases work well, or indeed those waxy dribble-on pricey bike lubes. But if the rust "fire" is starting from the otherside of a layer then nothing painted on the "exhaust" side can prevent mother nature's process. Hence it's critical to arrest rust before it finds a second (blind) source of air.

Off topic but some people I know swear by lemon pledge for power tools (ie: table saws, drill presses, etc...) WD40 seems to remove rust but many claim that coating tools with it also causes rust over time.

No none of my paddles have that lemon fresh scent I just rinse with fresh water

[nancysan]

<We tied the paddle blade down to a door...>

How on earth do you "tie a paddle down", Nancy? And what sort of abuse comes afterwards?

Suzanne, dear: WD-40 is not actually a lubricant, as most people believe: it is in reality a cleaning agent! In fact, I <think> it was developed for naval use (anyone?); but it really excels at cleaning chains! (Oh, and neither is it a rust-preventative)

(Excuse my morning pedantism, all! <How's> yer father?)

Pardon my lack of clarity. Joel took us to those sliding doors in the back warehouse portion of his shop and tied the blade part with a certain knot I was supposed to remember and hitched it to the raised grasp handle (? for lack of knowing what to really call it). Guess you had to be there.

He yelled at me for using lubricant but said WD-40 was probably all right as long as you thoroughly clean it off afterwords, which he helped me with. He also said NOT to apply excessive heat to the shaft, even with the cold on the side that goes in. Not good for the material.

Anyhow, I am happy to have my paddle back for regular use and will try to take better care of it. I had ironically just caved for a second carbon Werner with higher angle blade (days before the Kalliste got stuck), but really missed my Kalliste.

You guys are always good for a wealth of info. Thanks and enjoy the nice weather this week if you can!

Nancy

[Pintail]

<You guys are always good for a wealth of info...>

And abuse -- don't forget the abuse!

You'd <better> look after your equipment from now on, Nancy!