first aid ? -disposable thermometers?

[Phil Allen]

For those of you that put together your own emergency medical kits or otherwise hang around the sick and injured, have you used these new disposable paper thermometers? Things like this:

http://www.amazon.com/NEXTEMP-DISPOSABLE-T...X/dp/B000GUN9OS

seem like an easy thing to carry in the first aid kit. Any thoughts on the benefits or drawbacks over standard thermometers?

Phil

[bob budd]

I am fundamentally opposed to anything "disposable", i.e. put it in a landfill for who knows how long. These thermometers can be cleaned and reused so they are not necessarily disposable. If they are inexpensive, however, they will generally be treated as disposable.

The chemicals are similar to what is used in LCDs. I don't know the specifics of these compounds but the chemicals in LCDs behave very differently as ambient temperatures change so you might not get the same reading on a cold day as you would on a hot day.

I prefer to use electronic thermometers. They have LCD displays and they might not provide a readable display on a very cold day, though you could warm them in your hand. Beverly (my city) trades mercury units for electronic units for free (and responsibly disposes of the mercury).

I would not have a glass thermometer in a first aid kit that I would hike, paddle, etc. with.

[Phil Allen]

I am fundamentally opposed to anything "disposable", i.e. put it in a landfill for who knows how long. These thermometers can be cleaned and reused so they are not necessarily disposable. If they are inexpensive, however, they will generally be treated as disposable.

The chemicals are similar to what is used in LCDs. I don't know the specifics of these compounds but the chemicals in LCDs behave very differently as ambient temperatures change so you might not get the same reading on a cold day as you would on a hot day.

I prefer to use electronic thermometers. They have LCD displays and they might not provide a readable display on a very cold day, though you could warm them in your hand. Beverly (my city) trades mercury units for electronic units for free (and responsibly disposes of the mercury).

I would not have a glass thermometer in a first aid kit that I would hike, paddle, etc. with.

I guess that's why I want feedback if anyone has used these. They don't rely on batteries as do electronic, and they're not readily breakable like glass, thermometers. While I agree in prinicple about the disposable part, for something to be used in the field with a possibly sick person on the other end, disposable seams like the proper choice.

Phil

[bob budd]

Don't forget that the accuracy in varying temperatures may be compromised. This product very well may have been designed primarily for indoor use (with controlled temperatures). Its a fundamental limitation with LCD technology even today.

[rick stoehrer]

I guess that's why I want feedback if anyone has used these. They don't rely on batteries as do electronic, and they're not readily breakable like glass, thermometers. While I agree in prinicple about the disposable part, for something to be used in the field with a possibly sick person on the other end, disposable seams like the proper choice.

Phil

used in the field?

...we're never far from the freakin' car we likely put in from, let alone medical evac if something comes up that is more serious than a scraped knee, sniffles, headache or sea sickness.

what is the thermometer for? if you need to determine someone's temp (cause you're worried about infection or heat stroke/exhaustion) those are all conditions best left to professionals in a professional setting and, in the case of the heat related conditions, you get them to the shade, drinking some liquids (can you get some salt tablets in them?) and generally try to bring the body temp down...in any event, that's an evac and dealt with by professionals.

my med kit has a whole lotta stuff i've almost never used and then some stuff i've used (neosporin, bandages, gauze....TAPE)

...we ain't runnin a m.a.s.h. unit and we ain't s.e.a.l's far off in the field and so i kinda don't see much point in carrying a thermometer in my kit for what i do.

heat related bad stuff - all of which would make you pretty much NOT want to paddle any more that day....

heat exhaustion symptoms include - heavy sweating, paleness, muscle cramps, dizzines

headache, nausea, vomiting, fainting.....so probably, you'll notice these symptoms.

heat stroke symptoms include - you are no longer sweating, rapid, thready pulse, strange behavior, hallucinations, agitation, confusion....so you'll REALLY notice these symptoms.

[PeterB]

used in the field?

...we're never far from the freakin' car we likely put in from, let alone medical evac if something comes up that is more serious than a scraped knee, sniffles, headache or sea sickness.

what is the thermometer for? if you need to determine someone's temp (cause you're worried about infection or heat stroke/exhaustion) those are all conditions best left to professionals in a professional setting and, in the case of the heat related conditions, you get them to the shade, drinking some liquids (can you get some salt tablets in them?) and generally try to bring the body temp down...in any event, that's an evac and dealt with by professionals.

my med kit has a whole lotta stuff i've almost never used and then some stuff i've used (neosporin, bandages, gauze....TAPE)

...we ain't runnin a m.a.s.h. unit and we ain't s.e.a.l's far off in the field and so i kinda don't see much point in carrying a thermometer in my kit for what i do.

heat related bad stuff - all of which would make you pretty much NOT want to paddle any more that day....

heat exhaustion symptoms include - heavy sweating, paleness, muscle cramps, dizzines

headache, nausea, vomiting, fainting.....so probably, you'll notice these symptoms.

heat stroke symptoms include - you are no longer sweating, rapid, thready pulse, strange behavior, hallucinations, agitation, confusion....so you'll REALLY notice these symptoms.

I kind of agree. Instructor/ professional and generally " people more-experienced- than- me" WFA kits I've seen are pretty small, no frills, only essentials. Not sure if a thermometer would qualify.

[Phil Allen]

used in the field?

...we're never far from the freakin' car we likely put in from, let alone medical evac if something comes up that is more serious than a scraped knee, sniffles, headache or sea sickness.

what is the thermometer for? if you need to determine someone's temp (cause you're worried about infection or heat stroke/exhaustion) those are all conditions best left to professionals in a professional setting ...

Well there's the rub. We're not always that close to the car if you want to do multi day trips, and the difference between a fever of 99 & 102 degrees might be the difference between med evac or not. But your opinion is duly noted

and Peter (I can't seem to do multi-quote to save my life), my understanding, from the advertising info, is this fits the practical definition for the backcountry/offshore requirement of simple, robust and idiot proof. Since it must be true (the advertising says so), sorry (not) for asking if anybody had used them before.

Phil

[rick stoehrer]

Well there's the rub. We're not always that close to the car if you want to do multi day trips, and the difference between a fever of 99 & 102 degrees might be the difference between med evac or not. But your opinion is duly noted

and Peter (I can't seem to do multi-quote to save my life), my understanding, from the advertising info, is this fits the practical definition for the backcountry/offshore requirement of simple, robust and idiot proof. Since it must be true (the advertising says so), sorry (not) for asking if anybody had used them before.

Phil

you may not be adjacent to the vehicle but you are most likely in a position where if someone is exhibiting symptoms as above, you can get them in some shade, get fluids in them and contact emergency svc's for evac.

i just think that the things you MIGHT have use for a thermometer for while on a trip will present themselves in other very evident ways that make the ticks on a thermometer irrelevant.

good luck with whatever you do decide.

[Pintail]

Phil, I have to say that I agree with Rick -- a hand across someone's forehead will tell you if a person is feverish! That's all you need know.

[bob budd]

Though most of us were raised with a hand on the forehead it is not an accurate method for determining someone's temperature. Sorry mom.

[Pintail]

Bob, I did not suggest it was an <accurate> method for measuring temperature: I meant to imply that it is as good a method as any for field work -- you do <not> need to tell temperature accurately in the field -- especially as a non-medical person!

The best you can do in the field, in any case, is to give the person some aspirin or ibuprofin or whatever. Leave temperature to doctors: at best we may be first-aid helpers.

Go back and re-read Stoehrer-san! I am in agreement with him.

[Suz]

Well there's the rub. We're not always that close to the car if you want to do multi day trips, and the difference between a fever of 99 & 102 degrees might be the difference between med evac or not. But your opinion is duly noted

and Peter (I can't seem to do multi-quote to save my life), my understanding, from the advertising info, is this fits the practical definition for the backcountry/offshore requirement of simple, robust and idiot proof. Since it must be true (the advertising says so), sorry (not) for asking if anybody had used them before.

Phil

Phil,

I'm a Mom and one that keeps a thermometer in their first aid kit. I believe that the difference between 100 and 102 doesn't feel very different to the inside of the wrist but it tells me that I wouldn't put a person w 102 back on the water to paddle back to the put in. I would most likely do so with someone with a 100 degree temp. I think that it is a significant sign when temps drop when given tylenol and what better means of telling than with a thermometer?

We all have reasons for why we carry what we do and mine is this. Years ago on a ROTC rafting trip on the Green River in Utah, I had a UTI that had backed up to the kidneys. I was on antibiotics. On day 3, I had a fever of 103 and they passed me off to a raft w/ a motor (filled with french speaking people, I was passed out and tied to the raft (in retrospect, I think that might have been dangerous!) ). If my fever hadn't started to go down from there, they would have had to call in a helicopter. During day 3 though it started to go down although I was still out of it. Day 4 I was paddling again.

Good discussion though - I will need to double check that my battery operated one is still functioning - off to do that right now!

Suz

[Lallen]

I'm with Suz on this one. Can't tell you which thermometer is best to use, but it can't hurt to carry one, especially on a multi-day trip. Doesn't take up a lot of space, either. Plus as the spouse of the poster on this topic, I want you to know if my temp is 100 degrees or 102, since the higher it is, the more I can whine and request a tow. After all a husband named "Scout" should have all the first aid gear though that won't stop me from complaining about how heavy your boat is to carry with it all loaded in it!

[rick stoehrer]

Phil,

I'm a Mom and one that keeps a thermometer in their first aid kit. I believe that the difference between 100 and 102 doesn't feel very different to the inside of the wrist but it tells me that I wouldn't put a person w 102 back on the water to paddle back to the put in. I would most likely do so with someone with a 100 degree temp. I think that it is a significant sign when temps drop when given tylenol and what better means of telling than with a thermometer?

We all have reasons for why we carry what we do and mine is this. Years ago on a ROTC rafting trip on the Green River in Utah, I had a UTI that had backed up to the kidneys. I was on antibiotics. On day 3, I had a fever of 103 and they passed me off to a raft w/ a motor (filled with french speaking people, I was passed out and tied to the raft (in retrospect, I think that might have been dangerous!) ). If my fever hadn't started to go down from there, they would have had to call in a helicopter. During day 3 though it started to go down although I was still out of it. Day 4 I was paddling again.

Good discussion though - I will need to double check that my battery operated one is still functioning - off to do that right now!

Suz

YOU PASSED OUT...EVAC IF POSSIBLE.

there are a lot of risks i would put on myself and enjoy but to my way of thinking that's a helluva a chance to take with YOUR well being...i personally would not do that to you.

pretty sure most wfa would see that part and caution the above.

[ski_hike_paddle]

some interesting points and counter-points. one topic not mentioned is that some folks have a tougher time fighting off infections than others, in my case due to the lack of a Spleen. knowing how bad a fever is, and what direction it's trending is important to me, and for that i need a thermometer. i kayak camp a bit, usually solo, most often for a week at a time (but i've been out for 2 and 4 week stints). so a thermometer has always been in my first aid kit, and always will be. what ends up in an individuals kit is often a factor of their past experiences and their unique situation.

[subaruguru]

Phil, I have to say that I agree with Rick -- a hand across someone's forehead will tell you if a person is feverish! That's all you need know.

What about self-stick thermometer tape blazoned across all paddlers' foreheads? We could call it Instant Mom...or Hot, Mama?

[glil]

As a mom I have 3 categories: normal, warm and hot. Never use a thermometer. It's not extremely accurate, but accurate enough and there is a hospital 10 minutes away if tylenol and ibuprofin don't work and things go bad.

On the other hand, I can see where you could be in a situation where a thermometer could be useful if you are on a multi-day trip, potentially days from civilization or river access, etc (with the exception of a helicopter evac) such as on the Green River where Suz was. So, I think it's not a bad idea at all for a first aid kit for such trips and could help determine if a person is getting worse or better or help with decision making for calling a helicopter (which is a pretty big deal-been there/done that from a river in Idaho).

So, may consider getting one...

Gay

[Suz]

As a mom I have 3 categories: normal, warm and hot. Never use a thermometer. It's not extremely accurate, but accurate enough and there is a hospital 10 minutes away if tylenol and ibuprofin don't work and things go bad.

On the other hand, I can see where you could be in a situation where a thermometer could be useful if you are on a multi-day trip, potentially days from civilization or river access, etc (with the exception of a helicopter evac) such as on the Green River where Suz was. So, I think it's not a bad idea at all for a first aid kit for such trips and could help determine if a person is getting worse or better or help with decision making for calling a helicopter (which is a pretty big deal-been there/done that from a river in Idaho).

So, may consider getting one...

Gay

I forgot to mention that I have one first aid kit that I use for both day trips and camping trips.

Suz

[glil]

I forgot to mention that I have one first aid kit that I use for both day trips and camping trips.

Suz

from a quick google search, it looks like you can get an accurate oral thermometer for about $10 ie "BD digital accu-beep". For a personal first aid kit, throwing in a few alcohol wipes to clean it should be fine. Seems more practical and accurate than a box of 100 disposable forehead strips for a "just in case" item.

Gay