Contact Tow

[brambor]

I thought it would be of interest. I found this article on a quick tow technique to get paddler quickly out of imminent danger.

It is on page 26.

[Phil Allen]

Hi Renee-

Contact tows definitely have their place in a paddlers skill set. If you're at the CAM paddles, it might be a good time to ask for a demo.

Phil

[GJ Carey]

I thought it would be of interest. I found this article on a quick tow technique to get paddler quickly out of imminent danger.

It is on page 26.

We'll definitely be experimenting with this tow as well as other ways of helping move people (in and out of boats) around on the water on Saturday.

[rick stoehrer]

We'll definitely be experimenting with this tow as well as other ways of helping move people (in and out of boats) around on the water on Saturday.

contact tow (with and without line) will be presented and practiced and it's been everyone's wheel house for a long time.

at the meeting a week back or so someone mentioned the bow roll rescue....after we do the rescues that have an application we're comfy with, we can practice that if you'd like....i personally think it's in the same category as cowboys and paddle floats....notice the bath tub like conditions and now imagine that with moving water and wind and the bow pitching about and putting your face and previously pristine pearly whites around that same pitching bow....think the whole prospect is sketchy at best.

link with vid attached....

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2007/Oct07/Technique01.htm#

[brambor]

One of the major doubts I have with bow roll rescue - in conditions the ability to get to the capsized paddler in time and at the right angle is 'a crapshoot' .

I have been experimenting in a pool with a backup plan in case of a failed roll. A foam paddle float under bungees in reach of my hands can come quite handy after a few minutes of practice. While capsized I am able to pull out the paddle float and, affix it to the paddle and roll up (similar to reentry and roll minus the water in the cockpit).

The obvious disadvantage is the bulky paddle float on the deck but for the time being it keeps my interest going.

contact tow (with and without line) will be presented and practiced and it's been everyone's wheel house for a long time.

at the meeting a week back or so someone mentioned the bow roll rescue....after we do the rescues that have an application we're comfy with, we can practice that if you'd like....i personally think it's in the same category as cowboys and paddle floats....notice the bath tub like conditions and now imagine that with moving water and wind and the bow pitching about and putting your face and previously pristine pearly whites around that same pitching bow....think the whole prospect is sketchy at best.

link with vid attached....

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2007/Oct07/Technique01.htm#

[bob budd]

Contact tows are definitely useful. I've used it to keep boats off the rocks while rescues were in progress. It also is useful to haul a boat through shallow water. It is a short to medium tow rope, shortened by what I was taught is a "sheep shank" that quickly unfolds to 3x its length. The article describes passing the line across your stomach, I'd never take the entanglement risk this entails.

[scamlin]

I thought it would be of interest. I found this article on a quick tow technique to get paddler quickly out of imminent danger.

It is on page 26.

Yep, we'll be covering contact tows--with and without a line--on Saturday at the CAM workshop, just as Rick and Galen say.

Also, if there is time, we'll have a chance to see just how cowboy and paddle float rescues are done--and you can make your own mind up whether they belong in your kit of skills.

Don't forget to RSVP to Peter B. if you're coming.

Scott

[Brian Nystrom]

at the meeting a week back or so someone mentioned the bow roll rescue....after we do the rescues that have an application we're comfy with, we can practice that if you'd like....i personally think it's in the same category as cowboys and paddle floats....notice the bath tub like conditions and now imagine that with moving water and wind and the bow pitching about and putting your face and previously pristine pearly whites around that same pitching bow....think the whole prospect is sketchy at best.

This definitely falls into the realm of "stupid kayak tricks". I can't imagine this technique having any possibility of success in anything other than dead-flat conditions with a practiced and calm "victim", which is not what's going to happen in real life. Just imagine trying to do the same thing in beam seas with a "victim" that's thrashing or completely limp. Ain't gonna' happen! Sea Kayaker should be ashamed for publishing this nonsense!

[brambor]

It's not really 'stupid' but it is useless as a rescue technique.

It is quite useful for practicing other techniques with a buddy because it eliminates the need to get out of the boat :-)

This definitely falls into the realm of "stupid kayak tricks". I can't imagine this technique having any possibility of success in anything other than dead-flat conditions with a practiced and calm "victim", which is not what's going to happen in real life. Just imagine trying to do the same thing in beam seas with a "victim" that's thrashing or completely limp. Ain't gonna' happen! Sea Kayaker should be ashamed for publishing this nonsense!

[Gcosloy]

It's not really 'stupid' but it is useless as a rescue technique.

It is quite useful for practicing other techniques with a buddy because it eliminates the need to get out of the boat :-)

Two other techniques that come to mind first if the goal is to avoid having the capsized leave the boat is 1. hand of god and 2. eskimo rescue (either by presenting a bow or a straddled paddle over both boats). The only excuse for attempting the bow roll rescue is the victim is motionless or unconscious and cannot participate in their own rescue. Even then there may be better options particularly if there are other paddlers that can help, like combining the scoop on one side with and assist from the other side.

[rick stoehrer]

... Even then there may be better options particularly if there are other paddlers that can help, like combining the scoop on one side with and assist from the other side.

you guys are excited, huh?

we'll sort out what works (and what works for you) from party tricks on saturday.

[NPSheehan]

The contact tow can be performed from the bow to stern or bow to bow where the person being towed leans over your kayak and grabs on tightly to your perimeter lines. It is very useful for a quick short tow out of harms way. The tower can forward paddle or back paddle depending on the set up. We practiced these tows in a recent 5 day Sea Kayak Guide training course I took in all possible combinations. The question is when would this be used? A Contact tow is used to get a person out of a bad location quickly for a short towing distance.

Scenarios..

1) Person needing a tow breaks or looses paddle in surf zone or near rocks and needs to be towed out of harms way very quickly.

2) A person having trouble in a boat channel or current where you need to move that kayak a couple of hundred feet very quickly.

3) A person is injured or sick and can't paddle and they are in a bad spot and need to be moved quickly to a safer location before setting up for an assisted tow.

4) A combination of any of the above

I'm sure there are other scenarios where this grab and go towing method would be appropriate as well.

The key to this is that both people do know what they are doing and that both have practiced this on some occasion or at least understand the actions needed to be performed.

Here is a blurb from Atlantis Kayak tours. Although the person in the drawing being towed would be closer to the towers cockpit and leaning over and grabbing their perimeter lines

http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/ex...-Skills-3.shtml

Neil

[EEL]

The key to this is that both people do know what they are doing and that both have practiced this on some occasion or at least understand the actions needed to be performed.

And when landing through surf zone those that stay together get a chance to roll together.

The sound of that breaking wave behind you takes on a whole new..sensation..so to speak... when playing around with this.

Ed Lawson

[rick stoehrer]

And when landing through surf zone those that stay together get a chance to roll together.

The sound of that breaking wave behind you takes on a whole new..sensation..so to speak... when playing around with this.

Ed Lawson

trying to thin the club herd, ed?

funny if everyone understands the joke. less funny if anyone reads it and thinks you're being serious.

surf zones can be dangerous - breaking water, shallows....potential for injury is huge. don't do this.

[EEL]

trying to thin the club herd, ed?

surf zones can be dangerous - breaking water, shallows....potential for injury is huge. don't do this.

I had in mind baby surf you would consider only gentle waves lapping onto beach.

Still, I apologize and point well taken. I don't know what I was thinking. Personally I get nervous about surfing onto beaches.. sand is still rock and the neck is soft. Helmets don't address that spine thing.

I hope you have lots of folks. I'm not sure most NSPN forum folk here understand just how impressive the folks providing this training are since y'all tend to have a low NSPN forum profile. Its an incredible opportunity to just spend a day on the water with y'all. The real deal as they say.

Ed Lawson

[NPSheehan]

surf zones can be dangerous - breaking water, shallows....potential for injury is huge. don't do this.

Yup! First priority in a dangerous situation is self preservation. Only if the risk is manageable should an assist be given in a very volatile area and it should be quick and effective. One needs to analyze the situation and conditions before racing in or they risk becoming the next victim. If it's too dangerous to assist then every man for themselves.

Neil

[rick stoehrer]

Yup! First priority in a dangerous situation is self preservation. Only if the risk is manageable should an assist be given in a very volatile area and it should be quick and effective. One needs to analyze the situation and conditions before racing in or they risk becoming the next victim. If it's too dangerous to assist then every man for themselves.

Neil

...so you abandon swimmer or you get into different position? maybe swimmer gets into different position? the dynamic just needs to change from what it is...it's a pretty fluid (oh, yeah, i said it) environment. it's not like your just paddling away.

i now am logging off as i can't take any more message board...see you saturday.

[Pintail]

Brambor, with all due respect, surely you are using an odd logic in your paddle-float technique? Why not be practising your roll until it is absolutely fool-proof? Practise in all conditions, in waves and in current, so that that paddle-float is superfluous -- when it becomes of use only to offer to someone else wanting to learn to roll, to pad out your day hatch or to employ as a splint for some unfortunate wretch who has sustained a fracture!

If you have a roll at all, then make it bomb-proof! The water, right now, by the way, is nice and refreshing!

[djlewis]

If you have a roll at all, then make it bomb-proof!

With all due respect, Dr. G, there ain't no such thing as a bombproof roll. External obstructions -- rocks, etc -- can interfere. Injuries and illness can interfere. Conditions can interfere (wouldn't you think the Dynamic Plum Island Duo had bombproof rolls on that fateful June day). You can lose your paddle. Your spray skirt can come off. Etc Etc.

I once saw a well-known "bombproof" roller, an NSPN old-timer, take two tries and almost blow a roll altogether because he hit his head on an unsuspected underwater rock, which had multiple implications, but luckily not concussions.

Besides that, only a minority of folks have the combination of athletic prowess and time to practice to make a roll even near bombproof.

Is yours bombproof?

Kayaking safety is all about margins and multiple levels of measures.

The prosecution rests.

--David.

[brambor]

Pintail,

Of course I'm practicing my rolls and of course I will be practicing my rolls.

That goes without saying.

But DJ is correct. There is no such thing as a bombproof roll. Furthermore I think you're familiar with the articles from Seakayaker Magazine and their book on stories when things went wrong (forgot the title now). So you surely know that there are many kayakers out there who think they have a bombproof roll who FAIL their roll when things go wrong.

What this also means - I do not even think that I would be RELYING on the paddle float technique because that too can fail. I'm guessing that for this summer season I will use this as my backup until I feel good enough to ditch it during good weather conditions. But I might bungee strap that paddle float close to my hands if I get caught on some island by worsening sea conditions and need to return ...

However it is a good thing for me to practice because because of this I can be practicing rolls on my own and never get out of the boat. If something fails I roll up with the paddle float.

In addition I also paddle a double kayak with my 12 year old son. I can't roll that thing yet but I'm sure I can roll it with the paddle float. In case of emergency it would be far better if I stayed in the boat in case of a capsize. It's just another trick to help me out while I progress in kayaking technique.

Also I have practiced rolling up with the float without a paddle. This too could be handy.

I remembered reading stories from storms when experienced kayakers capsized, rolled up only to be knocked back over by another incoming wave. Repeat several times and all of a sudden they had no more strength to roll up and were forced out of their kayak.

Perhaps (no personal experience) having that foam block on the paddle gives a person extra anchor to stabilize, relax and then get going.

I just try to keep an open mind and realistic expectations

P.S. I wish the foam paddle float did not have such a high profile. I'm thinking about finding or designing something with less height and maybe shorter but perhaps wider and rounder.

[Gcosloy]

Pintail,

Of course I'm practicing my rolls and of course I will be practicing my rolls.

That goes without saying.

But DJ is correct. There is no such thing as a bombproof roll. Furthermore I think you're familiar with the articles from Seakayaker Magazine and their book on stories when things went wrong (forgot the title now). So you surely know that there are many kayakers out there who think they have a bombproof roll who FAIL their roll when things go wrong.

What this also means - I do not even think that I would be RELYING on the paddle float technique because that too can fail. I'm guessing that for this summer season I will use this as my backup until I feel good enough to ditch it during good weather conditions. But I might bungee strap that paddle float close to my hands if I get caught on some island by worsening sea conditions and need to return ...

However it is a good thing for me to practice because because of this I can be practicing rolls on my own and never get out of the boat. If something fails I roll up with the paddle float.

In addition I also paddle a double kayak with my 12 year old son. I can't roll that thing yet but I'm sure I can roll it with the paddle float. In case of emergency it would be far better if I stayed in the boat in case of a capsize. It's just another trick to help me out while I progress in kayaking technique.

Also I have practiced rolling up with the float without a paddle. This too could be handy.

I remembered reading stories from storms when experienced kayakers capsized, rolled up only to be knocked back over by another incoming wave. Repeat several times and all of a sudden they had no more strength to roll up and were forced out of their kayak.

Perhaps (no personal experience) having that foam block on the paddle gives a person extra anchor to stabilize, relax and then get going.

I just try to keep an open mind and realistic expectations

P.S. I wish the foam paddle float did not have such a high profile. I'm thinking about finding or designing something with less height and maybe shorter but perhaps wider and rounder.

Rene,

No reason to be defensive about this, you're just demonstrating common sense, you'd like to explore as many options for safety sake even if it goes against the grain of the established methods practiced by many in the NSPN. If you want to remain free of controversy or rancor you need to remember a few key words and promise never to utter or refer to them again. I will give you the list: paddle float rescue, sponsons, towing systems that attach to the combing, kayaks that may not have a UK pedigree, deck bags, extended paddle roll or just extended paddle use, nose clips in salt water, and last but decidedly not the least, never the R word, i.e rudder. Hope this helps.

[EEL]

Besides that, only a minority of folks have the combination of athletic prowess and time to practice to make a roll even near bombproof.

This seems an unduly negative view of the average paddler"s ability to learn and become proficient in a basic skill.

Obviously stuff happens, or as Homer said. "...Zeus does not ratify all the designs of men."

Equally obvious each and every self rescue technique is not bombproof as well. One could even say all rescue techniques, self and assisted are not bombproof. So now what?

Be resigned to committing ourselves to the deep? Never paddle?

Perhaps it is not whether the outcome will be to our liking so much as we have, based on skill and practice, the mental attitude when things go wrong that we will roll/prevail and we proceed from that assumption.

Having alternatives and backup is all well and good, but I don't believe it is a good thing to start with a the assumption the quickest, easiest, best technique is unlikely to work.

Ed Lawson

[brambor]

..., and last but decidedly not the least, never the R word, i.e [deleted to protect the innocent]

I rather like the R thingy on our Tandem Kayak.

P.S. Gene, we're going to miss you camping on Jewell this weekend. There is still a chance for you to go. I'm departing tomorrow morning at 7AM. Come join us. :-)

[tyson]

And when landing through surf zone those that stay together get a chance to roll together.

The sound of that breaking wave behind you takes on a whole new..sensation..so to speak... when playing around with this.

trying to thin the club herd, ed?

funny if everyone understands the joke. less funny if anyone reads it and thinks you're being serious.

surf zones can be dangerous - breaking water, shallows....potential for injury is huge. don't do this.

Just last week, John Carmody described bringing inexperienced paddlers in through surf by rafting up and holding on tight. He described a case where he and (I think?) Ben Lawry were doing this simultaneously to two different paddlers who needed help and they both ended up getting rolled ... and ending up upright.

Am I misunderstanding what one or each of you is saying? ...or do you guys disagree? ...or is this a "don't try this at home" type of activity?

[tyson]

....notice the bath tub like conditions and now imagine that with moving water and wind and the bow pitching about and putting your face and previously pristine pearly whites around that same pitching bow....

Seem little different to demonstrating a T-rescue in a pool. That it can be done in a pool doesn't mean it can't be done in bump. A T-rescue has the bow quite close to the pearly's also.

This definitely falls into the realm of "stupid kayak tricks". I can't imagine this technique having any possibility of success in anything other than dead-flat conditions with a practiced and calm "victim", which is not what's going to happen in real life. Just imagine trying to do the same thing in beam seas with a "victim" that's thrashing or completely limp. Ain't gonna' happen! Sea Kayaker should be ashamed for publishing this nonsense!

I have very little experience with this technique, so I look to learn. A few points:

- If one person says that they can do something and an other says it can't be done, I believe the person who can. Existence proof works. Proving a negative doesn't work so well.

- The T-rescue puts the bow of the other boat right at your face and everyone seems accept the T-rescue as a useful skill for many (not all) conditions.

- The point of the bow roll is that, when done correctly, you use your core muscles to right the boat. That aspect sounds no more sketchy than than the idea that a roll is useful and effective _when done correctly_.

- Why is Hand Of God better for dealing with a victim that seems intent on sabotaging their own rescue?

I am able to do many things that others think is difficult or impossible. There are others who can do things that I find difficult or impossible. From what I've heard so far, the pearly whites argument is the most compelling reason to file the bow roll under party trick. However, that suggestion doesn't yet hold water for me because it looks a lot like the T-rescue in that respect.

...and I'm looking forward to being better informed by the end of the day on Sat.

Cheers!

Ty