Doug Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 What will the 2010 paddling season offer us as a club? It appears to me that the only trips that are ever posted are for intermediate and above paddlers with the exception of a handful of skill sessions during the week. I put this question to all of the club members, is this who we are? If so, that's OK. I only put these questions forward because I have seen the same 10-20 paddlers at all posted trips over the past 2 years. Are there members that feel they don't have the ability or experience to paddle on any of our trips with the exception of the annual Solstice paddle where we break up into different levels? Is there a desire to post options with more placid paddling venues? Any response to these questions would be appreciated. Additional thoughts or concerns would also be of value. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Doug, your question is the "elephant in the room" type of question. I'm sure it has crossed many minds but no one seems inclined to overtly discuss it. Perhaps the club's recent attempt to come to grips with implementing CAM among the membership is a way of addressing this issue. If there is to be a shift in the type of trips offered providing for more inclusion of different skill levels it may very well depend on we the general members stepping up and doing it. The advanced paddlers in the group, many of whom are on the board participate in the invaluable skill sessions which are available to all levels. They are already doing more than their share. One of the problems that occurs when you post a trip for level 2 or 1 paddlers is that some may expect a leader designed formal trip. There is nothing wrong with that but that is not what we are about. Another problem is that not everyone views paddling as an exercise in skill building. They may not welcome challenge as much as they crave serenity and socialization. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. NSPN currently may fail to be all things to all paddlers but in retrospect, considering the constraints, it may be the best of all possible worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcohen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well said Gene!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 It's a really good question. I was doing WFA training this weekend and someone there stated that she was "afraid" to paddle with the show and goes put on by NSPN members as she thought they would be well out of her skill set. While not knowing the reality of this particular person's skills, the message she'd received was that everything we were doing was solid level 3+ or 4 from put in to take out. Somehow we need to change this perception if we want to continue to "help(ing) paddlers understand and manage the risks inherent in sea kayaking through peer learning and community interaction" (from our "who we are" page). Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 it may be the best of all possible worlds. I suggest Candide's conclusion that "we must cultivate our garden" is perhaps a more productive view than Dr. Pangloss's rote optimism. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I guess my feeling would be that there are plenty of clubs out there that run level 2 laid back paddles, and that's about as far as they go. I'm not sure if we want to compete in that market or if we want to run level 2 paddles that are oriented at bringing members up to level 3. Not saying they have to explicitly be clinics. But there's plenty of level 2 trips that can be done with surfing or rock play or other tastes of the open ocean. Emilie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPSheehan Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Maybe the Who Are We needs to be updated if NSPN is only targeting members above Level 2. "NSPN HOME "Who we are" We are a friendly network of paddlers based on the North Shore of Massachusetts. Our common love of sea kayaking brings together members hailing from Connecticut to Southern Maine and beyond. We range from casual paddlers to racers, bird watchers to surfers, day-trippers to expedition adventurers and everything in between. Whether you are a novice to the sport or a “hard-core†veteran, we have activities for you. Our volunteer trip initiators post dozens of trips every year, offering different: • Challenges - From a leisurely flat-water paddle to open ocean thrills • Locations - From Cape Cod to Casco Bay and beyond • Themes. Summer solstice, fall foliage, seal watching, skill building" It's true that there are other groups out there and I'm sure these other groups will gladly welcome the NSPN Level 1 & 2 fallout due to no events posted for their skill level. However be aware that some of these other groups are also promoting skill advancement and do have a strong desire to help those who want to advance their skill levels and grow with the organization not only as paddlers but also as event organizers. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 IMHO, Neil has a valid point. If NSPN doesn't bring in new people from the bottom, it could wither. I n addition to, or instead of, offering organic L1/L2 trips, NSPN could reach out to the other groups and do cross group/cross posted trips as a way of engaging L1/L2 paddlers. IMHO, isolated groups is not as desirable as a larger, dynamic community. There is a small group of people that cross over between Walden, SMSKN, NESeacoastPaddlers, NSPN, and perhaps others that I'm less aware of. Would encouraging this cross over be useful? Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I'm not sure why it is assumed a L2 paddler (whatever that is) would or could not enjoy a trip that a L3/4 paddler (whatever that is) would or could enjoy. Leaving aside its a couple of miles offshore, check out this video of paddling in Muscle Ridge. Seems to me anyone who has a decent level of fitness and a couple of lake skill sessions would be prepared for such a trip and would enjoy it. Maybe I underestimate what folks are routinely doing, but I suspect most NSPN members who think of themselves as Intermediate paddlers would too. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grl Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 NE Seacoast Paddlers has a large and growing membership that attracts flat water and beginning paddlers, but not exclusively those, with turnouts in the teens and above . . . so, there's plenty of people wanting to paddle and wanting to learn. It requires someone(s) willing to take on a beginning group of paddlers and provide a good experience in a spirit of helpfulness in settings without the fear factor. I recall my first NSPN paddle led by Patty Phalen in Gloucester Harbor. I didn't have a clue, wished I did, and that wonderful first paddle on the ocean set the stage . . . I think NSPN has shifted significantly in its focus over the past few years which leaves the newby and solace-seeking paddlers to find other means of learning and others to paddle with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylevine Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 I think NSPN has shifted significantly in its focus over the past few years which leaves the newby and solace-seeking paddlers to find other means of learning and others to paddle with. We could easily fit L1/2 ocean trips in and around the Forest River/Willows practice sessions on Friday. I think that has been done before, but perhaps not advertised as trips. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob budd Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 In the days of leader training a given leader was expected to lead trips at one or more levels below their own. This probably contributed to the population of lower level paddles. There was also an informal commitment to lead at least one lower level paddle each year for newbies, etc. - see "pay it forward". The show-n-gos and "workshops" were therefore typically the higher level organized paddles. In a volunteer organization it comes down to the acts of individuals as much, if not more, than the stated mission. When I was posting show-n-gos we welcomed lower level paddlers and downsized our paddle as needed (or got rescue and equipment recovery practice - just ask Barry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Speaking of attracting teens...that would be a great endeavor. I have an 11 year old and a soon 18 year old but taking them on trips where there are no other peers is not always attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 err. that was 'turnouts in the teens' lol my reading comprehension is shot - I'm going to the dentist. bye for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 What will the 2010 paddling season offer us as a club? It appears to me that the only trips that are ever posted are for intermediate and above paddlers with the exception of a handful of skill sessions during the week. I put this question to all of the club members, is this who we are? If so, that's OK. I only put these questions forward because I have seen the same 10-20 paddlers at all posted trips over the past 2 years. Are there members that feel they don't have the ability or experience to paddle on any of our trips with the exception of the annual Solstice paddle where we break up into different levels? Is there a desire to post options with more placid paddling venues? Any response to these questions would be appreciated. Additional thoughts or concerns would also be of value. Doug "Who are we?..... really"...longshot I know, but paddlers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcohen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 QUOTE (Kevin B @ May 12 2010, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>"Who are we?..... really"...longshot I know, but paddlers? Cute Kevin; But it been real fun to read this fit of organizational introspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 ... this fit of organizational introspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Cute Kevin; But it been real fun to read this fit of organizational introspection. "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcohen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 "We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Ed Lawson LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 What if we selected some dates on the calendar and all those willing at a Level 3+ or more skill level picked at least one date over the summer when they would organize and take out a group on a Level 2 or 2+ Paddle? I personally wouldn't be comfortable leading a trip by myself, but would be more than happy to act as a co-leader and assist on such a trip. Are there others who would be willing to volunteer for just 1 date over the summer to do this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylevine Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 What if we selected some dates on the calendar and all those willing at a Level 3+ or more skill level picked at least one date over the summer when they would organize and take out a group on a Level 2 or 2+ Paddle? I personally wouldn't be comfortable leading a trip by myself, but would be more than happy to act as a co-leader and assist on such a trip. Are there others who would be willing to volunteer for just 1 date over the summer to do this? Sure. I also would not be comfortable leading a group of new paddlers without some other L3 types around. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Sure. I also would not be comfortable leading a group of new paddlers without some other L3 types around. I hope to have my "intermediate paddler" assessment passed this weekend. If that qualifies me, I'd be happy to help when schedule allows. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Wow, very interesitng conversation taking place. I am a newbie to NSPN and someone who would like to become active and increase my skills... I have even coordinated pick-up of my new boat with a lake session. I have a question: Why is it unappealing for L3 paddlers to participate , facilitate, initiate a L2 paddle? Katherine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylevine Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Wow, very interesitng conversation taking place. I am a newbie to NSPN and someone who would like to become active and increase my skills... I have even coordinated pick-up of my new boat with a lake session. I have a question: Why is it unappealing for L3 paddlers to participate , facilitate, initiate a L2 paddle? Katherine Katherine, As a participant in the conversation, I can only explain my posting. In fact, I see now that I may have unintentionally mis-interpreted Lorrie's posting in mine. I have no problem with L1 and L2 trips. There are many very interesting areas along the coast that qualify as L1/L2 trips - areas that I'm excited to explore this summer. My statement had to do with leading new paddlers. My own paddling and emergency handling skills are still at a level such that I would not like to lead a group of new paddlers without other experienced paddlers around. Given the high skill levels at NSPN (due in part to the lake and pool practice sessions), this would probably occur naturally anyway. I hope that clarifies my posting. Welcome to NSPN, and look forward to paddling with you this summer! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 ... I have a question: Why is it unappealing for L3 paddlers to participate , facilitate, initiate a L2 paddle? Katherine Katherine, welcome to NSPN. I think the answer is that many L3 paddlers don't trust their leadership skills and their ability to shepherd other paddlers on a trip. That said they're probably understating their skillset. It's rare to find true L2 conditions on the ocean but L2 skills are appropriate for many trips that NSPN members post. And pushing oneself in conditions is really the only way to grow as a paddler. Hope to paddle with you soon. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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