CAM Paddling Trips Workshop - Trips Scenarios

[rylevine]

I would like to thank the organizers of yesterday's workshop. It was both fun and very educational. I'm really looking forward to the on-the-water sessions!

In one of the sessions yesterday we were tasked to consider various trip scenarios under the CAM model. It was felt that these scenarios should be shared with the larger NSPN community.

Our group got 'Late Arrivals': So you are the trip initiator or participant at the beach, the boats have been unloaded, beach briefing completed, and people are beginning to launch. Worse, what if everyone has launched; and you glance back to see someone frantically driving up. What to do?

Option 1: Everyone waits. The individual is given quick beach briefing, with the briefer possibly returning to the beach to help unload and re-brief.

Option 2: A few people go back, including the beach briefer. The rest of the group proceeds (slowly?) to the destination with the idea that the people left behind will catch up.

Option 3: The late arrival is left on the beach to catch up with the group, perhaps after radio contact is made in which the destination is relayed (since that could have been changed at the beach briefing). When the late arrival joins the group, he/she is briefed on the plans for the day.

Option 4: "Just say no". The group may have a tight schedule (perhaps due to tides) or people are getting cold waiting around on the beach. The launch may have been a little tricky, so people do not want to go back, nor be "complicit" with a plan involving a lone paddler in questionable conditions.

Obviously, there is no single answer that works under all conditions. Much depends on the particulars such as conditions, the experience level of the group, the experience level of the late arrival, and etc. Our group did conclude, however, that arriving late is very bad form for an NSPN trip, CAM or otherwise. At the very least it is inconveniencing your fellow paddlers, and at the worst perhaps causing a schedule to slip dangerously.

Bob

[PeterB]

I would like to thank the organizers of yesterday's workshop. It was both fun and very educational. I'm really looking forward to the on-the-water sessions!

In one of the sessions yesterday we were tasked to consider various trip scenarios under the CAM model. It was felt that these scenarios should be shared with the larger NSPN community.

Our group got 'Late Arrivals': So you are the trip initiator or participant at the beach, the boats have been unloaded, beach briefing completed, and people are beginning to launch. Worse, what if everyone has launched; and you glance back to see someone frantically driving up. What to do?

Option 1: Everyone waits. The individual is given quick beach briefing, with the briefer possibly returning to the beach to help unload and re-brief.

Option 2: A few people go back, including the beach briefer. The rest of the group proceeds (slowly?) to the destination with the idea that the people left behind will catch up.

Option 3: The late arrival is left on the beach to catch up with the group, perhaps after radio contact is made in which the destination is relayed (since that could have been changed at the beach briefing). When the late arrival joins the group, he/she is briefed on the plans for the day.

Option 4: "Just say no". The group may have a tight schedule (perhaps due to tides) or people are getting cold waiting around on the beach. The launch may have been a little tricky, so people do not want to go back, nor be "complicit" with a plan involving a lone paddler in questionable conditions.

Obviously, there is no single answer that works under all conditions. Much depends on the particulars such as conditions, the experience level of the group, the experience level of the late arrival, and etc. Our group did conclude, however, that arriving late is very bad form for an NSPN trip, CAM or otherwise. At the very least it is inconveniencing your fellow paddlers, and at the worst perhaps causing a schedule to slip dangerously.

Bob

thanks for posting!

It does depend on the specific situation, but in general, I would vote for #1 and #4 as the best options. , with # 2 & 3 (especially #2) as not-good options.

#'s 2& 3 require separating the group at some point, and I think that either 1 or 4 could solve the problem in most situations.

When bad things happen on the water, it very often involves a group separating in some way.

You can go a long way towards avoiding bad things by keeping a group together.

I don't think being dogmatic and saying "never ever separate" is necessary, but if a group separates for any reason , it should be treated by the whole group as a significant event requiring some extra attention, awareness, etc.

[spuglisi]

Thanks for starting the thread , Bob. And a BIG thanks to everyone who gave their time to share a wealth of knowledge with us all.

Our group was presented with a situation where someone decides to leave the group midway through a paddle.

The first case we discussed was if it were a matter of medical necessity (sick, injured, etc). We felt that was an easy call and would either split the group to escort the paddler back. If the group was to small to split then the whole group would return .

The second case involved someone who was in stubborn, disagreement with the rest of the group about the direction back to the put in. Although there might not be a lot of sympathy for the lone paddler we agreed that so long as it didn't put the group in jeopardy, the group would stick with the lone paddler and continue to try and convince him/her (through chart, compass and landmarks) of the error. We would not have put the group in harms way to stick with the person who insisted in going their own way.

[rylevine]

Thanks for starting the thread , Bob. And a BIG thanks to everyone who gave their time to share a wealth of knowledge with us all.

Our group was presented with a situation where someone decides to leave the group midway through a paddle.

The first case we discussed was if it were a matter of medical necessity (sick, injured, etc). We felt that was an easy call and would either split the group to escort the paddler back. If the group was to small to split then the whole group would return .

The second case involved someone who was in stubborn, disagreement with the rest of the group about the direction back to the put in. Although there might not be a lot of sympathy for the lone paddler we agreed that so long as it didn't put the group in jeopardy, the group would stick with the lone paddler and continue to try and convince him/her (through chart, compass and landmarks) of the error. We would not have put the group in harms way to stick with the person who insisted in going their own way.

That was an interesting discussion yesterday concerning the possibility of a wayward, but determined, single paddler. I was wondering if calling in the cavalry (in the form of the Coast Guard), or perhaps at least threatening to do so, would be warranted at some point.

[EEL]

The second case involved someone who was in stubborn, disagreement with the rest of the group about the direction back to the put in.

One factor to consider in this case would be the potential for lack of adequate food and water creating the observed behavior or perhaps another medical issue. It might not be a simple case of a stubborn person who is mistaken and refuses to abide by the "rules" of a group paddle. Also, it might be nearly impossible to convince them they are in error and another approach would be to emphasize the importance of staying together which means they stay with you and a plan to verify location as you proceed along the group's chose path. If you can show that here we are at green buoy 5 and this is where it is on the chart, then continued refusal to accept observed reality suggests more than being stubborn which in turn confirms you have a difficult situation.

Ed Lawson

[gyork]

............. the person who insisted in going their own way.

Should this be part of the launch briefing? That is, when you join the group, you agree to act as a responsible member of that group, or any subgroup(s) that develop(s). In the unlikely scenario described in this thread, it seems as though this paddler no longer wanted to be part of the group. Does the CAM mindset allow a response such as "OK, you're on your own"?

[spuglisi]

Should this be part of the launch briefing? That is, when you join the group, you agree to act as a responsible member of that group, or any subgroup(s) that develop(s). In the unlikely scenario described in this thread, it seems as though this paddler no longer wanted to be part of the group. Does the CAM mindset allow a response such as "OK, you're on your own"?

The scenario may sound unlikely but it was an actual situation experienced by one of the members of our group. The group felt certain that they knew where the lone paddler would wind up (not the take out that they were all intending to reach) and that it wouldn't put the group in jeopardy if they stayed with him and continued trying to convince him of his error (which they finally were able to do by way of a chart and navigational aids)

[spuglisi]

The scenario may sound unlikely but it was an actual situation experienced by one of the members of our group. The group felt certain that they knew where the lone paddler would wind up (not the take out that they were all intending to reach) and that it wouldn't put the group in jeopardy if they stayed with him and continued trying to convince him of his error (which they finally were able to do by way of a chart and navigational aids)

And...to answer your first question ...I do think that group cohesion should certainly be discussed during the beach briefing.

[EEL]

It does depend on the specific situation, but in general, I would vote for #1 and #4 as the best options. , with # 2 & 3 (especially #2) as not-good options.

Agree with Peter and would add that it does show the benefit of folks informing the person posting the trip of their intention to participate and providing their cell phone number as well as the trip poster providing his/her cell phone number. If running late it would only be common courtesy to call and let the trip poster know the situation. I know I have been on both ends of that situation and a short call made everything go easy.

Ed Lawson

[Suz]

That was an interesting discussion yesterday concerning the possibility of a wayward, but determined, single paddler. I was wondering if calling in the cavalry (in the form of the Coast Guard), or perhaps at least threatening to do so, would be warranted at some point.

On your point of calling in the CG... I don't think calling in the CG is warranted. CG doesn't get called until after an emergency arises.

At some point, you can decide that the wayward paddler is on their own. If you have a float plan, you will have their # and emergency contact numbers. Upon your return or when possible, it would be appropriate to notify their emergency contact.

Suz

[rylevine]

On your point of calling in the CG... I don't think calling in the CG is warranted. CG doesn't get called until after an emergency arises.

At some point, you can decide that the wayward paddler is on their own. If you have a float plan, you will have their # and emergency contact numbers. Upon your return or when possible, it would be appropriate to notify their emergency contact.

Suz

Suz,

I see your point. The CG should be the absolutely last resort, such as if there is an immediate emergency. I was thinking of that lone paddler heading off to England in the fog. However, it is not a likely scenario if the group acts together to determine the course.

Bob