Coast Guard issues warning to kayakers

[bazzert]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus...ng_to_kayakers/

The Boston Coast Guard office is urging people who get kayaks as holiday gifts to be careful if they plan to take a paddle, be it off the coast of New England or in an inland waterway. The Coast Guard says preholiday sales of kayaks and accessories are steady, and the weekend weather forecast in parts of the region calls for temperatures in the 40s. Al Johnson, Coast Guard recreational boating specialist, said anyone paddling this time of year should wear a dry suit or full wet suit as well as an approved life jacket. He also urged new kayakers to take a safety course. (AP)

[jason]

The full text can be found at: http://ow.ly/16d699

[JohnHuth]

It's good to see that advice getting into the papers. Thumbs up to the Globe.

Sorta thread related - I've inadvertently been doing an experiment in hypothermia. In the winter, I run masters track - mainly the 400 and 800 meters. This can put a lot of strain on the muscles, and I sometimes find that everything aches.

Some of my running buddies suggested taking an ice bath. I typically fill the tub with cold water up to my belly button, and throw in 10 lbs of ice. I monitor the temperature with an outdoor thermometer. I soak for about 30 minutes. A glass of wine and a book on Arctic exploration seems to make the time go faster.

When the temperature is at or above 50 degrees, I found that, outside of some superficial numbness, I warmed up fairly quickly after getting out of the tub. When the temperature was 45 degrees or so, I found that my core temperature definitely was lowered. I could feel the effects in my core for maybe 2 hours afterward.

I found it interesting that the difference between 52 degree and 45 degree water would have that pronounced and effect on me.

My break point from a drysuit into a wetsuit is also around 52 degrees - again found from trial and error.

[spuglisi]

It's good to see that advice getting into the papers. Thumbs up to the Globe.

Sorta thread related - I've inadvertently been doing an experiment in hypothermia. In the winter, I run masters track - mainly the 400 and 800 meters. This can put a lot of strain on the muscles, and I sometimes find that everything aches.

Some of my running buddies suggested taking an ice bath. I typically fill the tub with cold water up to my belly button, and throw in 10 lbs of ice. I monitor the temperature with an outdoor thermometer. I soak for about 30 minutes. A glass of wine and a book on Arctic exploration seems to make the time go faster.

When the temperature is at or above 50 degrees, I found that, outside of some superficial numbness, I warmed up fairly quickly after getting out of the tub. When the temperature was 45 degrees or so, I found that my core temperature definitely was lowered. I could feel the effects in my core for maybe 2 hours afterward.

I found it interesting that the difference between 52 degree and 45 degree water would have that pronounced and effect on me.

My break point from a drysuit into a wetsuit is also around 52 degrees - again found from trial and error.

OK.....but...are you seeing some positive effects from the ice bath torture?

[glil]

"Some of my running buddies suggested taking an ice bath."

hmmm... I think I'd wonder about the "buddy" part. Just kidding. That is very interesting. Brutal, but interesting. So, is being able to tolerate that a mental (wimp or not wimp) or a physical trait? I would think both. Isn't there a woman who has done some very lengthy swims in very cold water, maybe the English Channel?-I cant' remember the details, but it was amazing that she could function in the cold water.

Well, I'm in the wimp category when it comes to being cold AND wet. Drysuit until at least July for me!

Gay

[JohnHuth]

Yes, it does seem to work - if I have maybe three or four trouble spots, the ice bath takes care of it simultaneously. I will admit that the first few minutes of immersion are kinda difficult, but after that, it's not so bad.

[Suz]

Some of my running buddies suggested taking an ice bath. I typically fill the tub with cold water up to my belly button, and throw in 10 lbs of ice. I monitor the temperature with an outdoor thermometer. I soak for about 30 minutes. A glass of wine and a book on Arctic exploration seems to make the time go faster.

My break point from a drysuit into a wetsuit is also around 52 degrees - again found from trial and error.

John,

I could never, ever willingly climb into an ice bath, no matter what. I admire you for even trying it:)

I have about the same dry suit figure but usually use 50 degrees for the magic number but will put it on for warmer temps but with wind.

Suz

[JohnHuth]

Gay -

I don't know - I've always had a high tolerance for the cold. It used to drive my mother nuts. I'd go outside in the snow in bare feet to fetch the newspaper or take out the trash in the middle of winter (still do). Not that I count on this in any kayaking situation - it's just an observation.

John

[lhunt]

Isn't there a woman who has done some very lengthy swims in very cold water, maybe the English Channel?

Like Antarctica, you mean? Lynne Cox might be the one. She was on 60 Minutes. She did the English Channel, too, when she was 15. She shattered all the records.

[glil]

Like Antarctica, you mean? Lynne Cox might be the one. She was on 60 Minutes. She did the English Channel, too, when she was 15. She shattered all the records.

Yes, she was the person I read about when she swam near Antarctica. There is a very interesting article in your above link about how she "acclimatized" and her body's response to cold water.

Gay

[glil]

Like Antarctica, you mean? Lynne Cox might be the one. She was on 60 Minutes. She did the English Channel, too, when she was 15. She shattered all the records.

John, if you haven't already read her article, you'd likely be interested.

Gay

[chetpk]

I read this account today which unfortunately illustrates the exact concerns that the Coast Guard has.

http://seakayakstonington.blogspot.com/200...t-fatality.html

[Gcosloy]

I read this account today which unfortunately illustrates the exact concerns that the Coast Guard has.

http://seakayakstonington.blogspot.com/200...t-fatality.html

This link tends to reinforce the notion that both the manufacturers who market rec-kayaks and the people who sell them need to do more to inform the customer about the inherent dangers of being on the water. Naturally, this is the last thing either the customer or the outfitter wants to engage in too seriously at the point of sale. It seems to me somewhat ironic that the very people who occasionally question my going out on the ocean in a seakayak, knowing nothing of my preparation, are the same folks who will jump into a rec-boat without skirt, flotation or even PFD. sometimes in a T-shirt and feel just fine!

If the Massachusetts legislature really wants to save lives they couldn't do better than banning the sale of rec-kayaks in the state. Their apparent ease of use and apparent safety has led to an explosion of use with the statistical correlation of an increase of unfortunate deaths.

[Brian Nystrom]

While I understand your point, I certainly hope you're not serious. Once you let the "ban" genie out of the bottle, there's no putting it back in. Ultimately, all kayakers would suffer.

[JohnHuth]

John, if you haven't already read her article, you'd likely be interested.

Gay

Gay -

Yes I did look it up. Unbelievable, yet believable. Some humans have abilities that are off the charts. I have reasonably good tolerance for the cold, but based on my experiences in the ice baths, she has far more tolerance than I do. I think 45 minutes at 45 degrees would be my absolute limit before I'd conk.

John

[lhunt]

If the Massachusetts legislature really wants to save lives they couldn't do better than banning the sale of rec-kayaks in the state.

Whoa. We who paddle mostly in the sea tend to think only about the sea. Rec boats are perfectly appropriate and are really the best thing for many other types of paddling (quiet rivers, birdwatching, photography, etc.) There are many, many people who use them responsibly during the summer for the purpose for which they were designed. Why should they be lugging a sea kayak around for a gentle paddle in the Concord River?

I think strong written warnings by the manufacturer are the way to go here. Under the "recreational kayak" heading, Old Town does list "Stable and maneuverable for paddling on lakes, ponds and flat rivers." REI adds "gently rolling waves" to the mix, which I think is irresponsible, as gently rolling waves don't always stay gentle.

I got a full page of !!Warning!! stuff with my vacuum cleaner. What kind of warnings do you get with a rec boat? The person receiving a first-time boat for Christmas doesn't know anything about marine radios, wetsuits, surf landings, or Coast Guard warnings. There needs to be more paperwork by the seller. (IMHO, of course!)

Lisa

[djlewis]

...What kind of warnings do you get with a rec boat? The person receiving a first-time boat for Christmas doesn't know anything about marine radios, wetsuits, surf landings, or Coast Guard warnings. There needs to be more paperwork by the seller. (IMHO, of course!)

Why are we concentrating on the boat? Frankly, the folks who go out in the ocean in rec kayaks would not be one whit safer in the latest and spiffiest sea kayak. Well, maybe they'd just capsize within 5 feet of the launch, and would thus never get far enough away to be in danger (far enough being 50-100 yards in winter).

--David.

[lhunt]

Why are we concentrating on the boat?

Not on the boat so much. But a beginner who has no safety background (and therefore might need a strong warning) is more likely to buy a rec boat.

A beginner buying a sea kayak needs all sorts of complicated information about equipment and skills - it's an issue which we constantly address in this forum, and you at least get some exposure when you start researching to buy your sea kayak. A beginner buying a rec boat doesn't see all of that so much. They just need to know "don't do it".

Everybody has to start somewhere (!)

[Gcosloy]

I knew I was going to get some flack from my suggestion to ban the sale of re-boats and on balance I wasn't completely serious. The point I was trying to make is that if the goal is to save lives absolutely and not to consider any other cost/benefits, then yes ban rec-boats. The same case can be made for banning cell-phones (many use them irresponsibly to the point of distracting their concentration while operating dangerous machinery), banning alcohol, tobacco, 16 year old drivers, etc. The list could go on. The reason we don't ban the previous list as well as the sale of rec-boats, chainsaws and goose liver is that we as a society accept the tradeoffs inherent in their use which may claim the occasional life or limb. While I know that many readers of these posts would be very disturbed when seeing some jerk heading out in the early Spring or late Fall in a re-kayak without proper gear or PFD, how disturbed are you when seeing your neighbor pull out of his/her driveway with a cellphone jammed into their ear? At least the bad paddler can only hurt himself. Yes, I'm as libertarian as some of my friends from NH but that doesn't stop me from wondering sometimes how we as a society can help mend our imperfect world.

[leong]

While I understand your point [ban rec-kayaks], I certainly hope you're not serious. Once you let the "ban" genie out of the bottle, there's no putting it back in. Ultimately, all kayakers would suffer.

Of course this is true. But, in addition, it should be noted that only in skilled hands is a narrow sea kayak more sea-worthy than a wide rec-kayak. Obviously, a novice should stay out of any “conditions†(period). But for paddling on a calm lake or river, the “newbie†is probably safer in a rec-kayak (high primary stability) than in a narrow sea kayak (low primary stability). Banning the sale of rec-kayaks might actually increase the capsize rate of beginners who try narrow sea kayaks (without first developing the prerequisite skills and knowledge).

[spider]

Nice to see the coast guard warning to be careful.

For a lot of people there is the whole learning curve of perceived danger and real danger. Some things just don't look that dangerous until you're already in some really tough situations.

I see the thread has drifted somewhat to rec boats hazards or benefits.

Since my 1st boat was a rec boat given to me as a present... I remember a lot of the confusion I had as I went on web sites plus bought about every book I could get my hands on to learn as much as I could.

I remember the 1st time I saw a whale from my kayak... I was in my nice yellow rec boat..was I in danger ?...hard to say, but if I was it wasn't from the whale... it was from myself not knowing the difference.

I would routinely paddle across that bay a mile or two, yet it wasn't till I bought a sea kayak that I would get plenty scared out there. So hard to tell real danger from perceived danger.

Sometimes I wonder if we inadvertently add to the confusion just because it is so confusing to a new person.

I recall the 1st time I ran a river out into the sea. Waves crashing into the open cockpit. The thought crossed my mind "just how much water can these things hold till they sink?"

Thinking should I be worried ?...nah.... after all I should "challenge myself" ...How could I be a "real paddler" if I didn't challenge myself ?

It's always sad to read of someone drowning doing our sport and seems even sader when the person is new to the sport or just goofing around on a little outing.

I often wonder and perhaps some people know what the percentage is of people who drown in relation to how many people paddle.

Is it the same as say fatalities of other sports like ice climbing, bicycling, hang gliding ?

[rylevine]

I would routinely paddle across that bay a mile or two, yet it wasn't till I bought a sea kayak that I would get plenty scared out there. So hard to tell real danger from perceived danger.

I also started with rec boats in the ocean. It seems like a long time ago, but I remember thinking that the sea kayaks were more dangerous than the rec boats! After all, you're stretching into a narrow tube that rolls easily and then sealing yourself in with a spray skirt. With a rec boat, you flop out and swim to shore....what's the big deal? Of course this is all nonsense, but an uninformed novice could easily get into real trouble because of the confusion. I think Lisa is correct with the need for strenuous warnings from manufacturers and retailers at the time of sale. The warnings are coming, but unfortunately only after these tragedies.

Bob