glad Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Could folks chime in on making a decision between the purchase of either a Cetus LV versus the Force 3? Any info would be appreciated by Deb Dempsey Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Could folks chime in on making a decision between the purchase of either a Cetus LV versus the Force 3? Any info would be appreciated by Deb Dempsey Karen The best way to pick a boat is to test drive the two boats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 ...and has the Nordkapp LV been considered? I paddled one this past weekend. I'm pretty sure that I prefer the Anas Acuda, but the Nordkapp LV was decidedly faster and still very maneuverable and playful. Emilie really liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dang! It looks like last night I forgot how to spell 'Acuta" all over the place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccarlson Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The best way to pick a boat is to test drive the two boats! +1 test paddling is the only way to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 +1 test paddling is the only way to go! To add my $.02. Test paddling in the conditions and on the type of paddles for its intended use is important as well as extended test paddling so you have a chance to get to know the boat as first impressions can be deceiving. Do that and one will feel right and that is the boat to get no matter what anyone says My opinion is both boats are innovative, but refined modern designs from folks who stand behind their products and produce quality products so from that perspective both are great. My impression is the Cetus and Force boats have different personalities, so its really a personal preference thing. I know from experience the Force is an outstanding extended touring boat and from observation and comments I believe the Cetus is as well. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 CRCK might let you take both of them out on salt. To add my $.02. Test paddling in the conditions and on the type of paddles for its intended use is important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvcrider Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hi Karen, If you are looking for input from someone who has paddled both boats extensively give Dorothy Seddon a call at The River Connection. I am sure she could set you up to demo both boats side-by-side. http://www.the-river-connection.com/ Safe paddling, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I own both a Cetus Clear Hull (50 lbs) and a Force 5 CK (52 lbs) so my comments are both personal AND assume that paddling personality traits are proportionately consistent. Nevertheless I STRONGLY urge you to test both kayaks, especially in strong wind, following seas, and perhaps surfing. It's in these three areas that their differences will be in strongest contrast. The Force IS a bit faster touring, and once cruising feels that way because it's so tracky and wind insensitive, in addition to having a longish waterline. Most would agree that it's slightly more efficient than the Cetus on a long crossing. Partial skeg is only required when winds are above 12-15 knots. In following seas the Force will zig-zag a bit, which the skeg will mitigate somewhat, but as an example NOT enough to keep it from broaching quickly when surfing...even with skeg fully deployed. So the Force is NOT a great surfer. However, it IS surprisingly nimble, in that it lean-turns very obediently, and without undue surprise, and then will carve a beautiful turn which stops automatically when you want it to. The Force has good, but not great primary stability, but excellent secondary. The Force is great in heavy chop as it neither pearls easily nor rides up high. Has a nice neutral feel, yet is very responsive to any input. The Cetus feels lighter and looser, quickly accelerating or turning somewhat like a smaller playboat. However its fat Swede form provides both terrific primary and secondary stability even when carving a very tight turn, as the ends will ride dry, yielding a much-shortened waterline. Hence, the Cetus is quite wind-cocky, and requires partial skeg in even light winds IF you want to make progress without busy stroke corrections, especially in chop. In moderate winds you really need the full skeg. In moderate chop the light bow will be busily percussive and hammer down each wave, which will get tiresome (and noisy!). I've found that packing the front hatch instead of the rear dayhatch lightly tempers the floppy bow greatly. This light bow however is an advantage when surfing, as you can push it around to prevent broaching. The Cetus will continue to turn well past one's possible intention, requiring a countering lean or stroke to neutralize. In this manner, too, it's willful, rather than obedient. As I'm still unsure which to keep, I relegate my F5 to longer trips, especially with higher winds, and use the Cetus for mild rockplay (that clear hull's fragile!) or light surfing, or when paddling with slower to moderate folks. As I'm still non-rolling I'm unsure which rolls more easily. Suz asked me awhile back which I'd keep if I could only have one, and indeed this IS a toughy; but although I'm a chocoholic I must admit that a great vegetable soup is more nourishing. The Cetus is like a hot date, but the Force is the marrying kind! Note that the F3 has a really low cockpit, lately raised 3/4" to a more normal height in the F3 HV for larger/longer legs. The Cetus has a height midway between the F4 and F5, so I suggest that you check both F3s, as I suspect the Cetus LV may be closer in fit to the F3 HV...but I'm just projecting from the bigger ones. If the Cetus LV is much lower volume than the Cetus maybe you'll find it less wind-cocky? If the F3's waterline isn't much longer then the C LV then maybe it won't be faster? You might find the boats to feel extremely similar, or find differences that I haven't addressed, so DO spend considerable time with each, again, especially in "conditions" appropriate to your intended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I've paddled both the Cetus (on flat water) and the Cetus LV (in conditions, including surf and rocks). They're very different hull designs and a review of the Cetus does not apply to the Cetus LV. Bottom line: Both are delightful boats but it's best that you try the Cetus LV for yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I've paddled both the Cetus (on flat water) and the Cetus LV (in conditions, including surf and rocks). They're very different hull designs and a review of the Cetus does not apply to the Cetus LV. Bottom line: Both are delightful boats but it's best that you try the Cetus LV for yourself! Well there ya go! Figures P&H would capitalize on the Cetus' name for a smaller different hull. I'm surprised they didn't call the Scorpio the Cetus RM! So Bob, what's the Cetus LV like? Ern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <Test paddling is the only way to go> Bah, Carl: nonsense! Karen, tell Deb to spin a coin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPSheehan Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Although the Cetus and Force 3 are great kayaks I'm going to put a plug in for the Valley Aquanaut LV. The Aquanaut LV is also a 17ft kayak and handles like a dream and is very fast. I love my Aquanaut and when my girlfriend was looking for a upgrade from her CD Slipstream the Aquanaut LV was a perfect match. I paddle the LV on occasion too and it's an awesome kayak with it's roots in the Avocet and Nordkapp. I'd be happy to let you give it a try along with your trials of the Cetus LV and Force 3. http://www.expeditionkayaks.com/aquLV-comp.htm http://www.atlantickayaktours.com/pages/Re.../Aquanaut.shtml Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtmllr Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'd be happy to let you give it a try along with your trials of the Cetus LV and Force 3. Neil Take him up on it. I went to demo something I made my mind up I wanted (Force), only to buy something I had ruled out completely based on scary web opinions. Once I paddled what became my new boat I found the others a bit boring. I also would like an Aquanaut eventually as that was my second choice of the day but alas no two-for-one sale. P&H does have some interesting boats too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 So Bob, what's the Cetus LV like? A little late but in answer to your question: The full-sized Cetus is a long, fast, straight-tracking boat. Its hull is widest just behind the cockpit. When you put it on edge the waterline shortens considerably and it turns on a dime. However, I'm 20-30 lbs on the light side for this boat so the boat rides high and I will get more responsiveness in turning, especially in flat water, than would a larger paddler. I expect to have problems managing the boat in wind and surf because I'm small relative to the large size of the boat. The Cetus LV is a bit shorter, still 17'+ but lower in volume than the original Cetus and a much better fit for my size (5'9", 155 lbs in street clothes). It's narrower than the original Cetus and with no post-cockpit "bulge" doesn't turn as fast as the original Cetus, Avocet, or Pintail, but, then again, it's not designed to, either. (Both the Avocet and Pintail are designed to be highly maneuverable so it's not a fair comparison.) The Cetus LV is also very fast with a straight-tracking hull design due to minimal rocker. The Cetus LV does fulfill its intended mission quite well: It's a fast, expedition boat for smaller paddlers. I paddled it for a day in rocks, a little surf, and maybe 3-ft max swell with a bit of wind. It handles quite well under all conditions. I could easily handle rock gardens though the 17' length made a few turns tighter than they would have been in my 16' Avocet I had no problems in keeping up with bigger paddlers in assorted 17' boats and had to be mindful of not outrunning the group a couple of times. I enjoyed the quick acceleration. It does need a bit of edge for turns as expected but not ridiculously so. I did not get blown around at all. It surfed well and rolled easily, though I'm a firm believer that rolling in a sea kayak or WW boat is 99% paddler and 1% boat. The P&H hatches sealed well and are much easier to open than Valley hatches. This is the first P&H boat that actually fits me. Overall: I would seriously consider buying one. Regards, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetpk Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 For what it is worth, P&H is going to be releasing a Cetus M (medium) that supposedly will split the difference between the original large Cetus and the Cetus LV. I believe it will be out this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 For what it is worth, P&H is going to be releasing a Cetus M (medium) that supposedly will split the difference between the original large Cetus and the Cetus LV. I believe it will be out this spring. I heard that too. As well will be the Maelstrom Vaag, another "do-all" fast but surfable 'yak sourced through Boreal (Canada) to Lincoln C/K. CRCK was so impressed they ordered one already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spuglisi Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I heard that too. As well will be the Maelstrom Vaag, another "do-all" fast but surfable 'yak sourced through Boreal (Canada) to Lincoln C/K. CRCK was so impressed they ordered one already. The Vaag is already out. I've sat in one but not paddled it...yet. Lincoln C/K does have a demo boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I heard that too. As well will be the Maelstrom Vaag, another "do-all" fast but surfable 'yak sourced through Boreal (Canada) to Lincoln C/K. CRCK was so impressed they ordered one already. Did they update the Maelstrom to have a spot for a deck mounted compass? -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Did they update the Maelstrom to have a spot for a deck mounted compass? -Jason Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 For what it is worth, P&H is going to be releasing a Cetus M (medium) that supposedly will split the difference between the original large Cetus and the Cetus LV. I believe it will be out this spring. This is a picture of John Carmody testing a prototype version of it. http://www.kates.org/pictures/Jason_and_Gi...g_8609.jpg.html I can't say if it will or won't be made but it was being looked at. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 This is a picture of John Carmody testing a prototype version of it. Wonderful picture Jason. What is the orange poly boat? Now that looks like a boat made for play as opposed to a sea kayak suitable for play. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetpk Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Wonderful picture Jason. What is the orange poly boat? Now that looks like a boat made for play as opposed to a sea kayak suitable for play. Ed Lawson Project Delphin? http://www.kayakquixotica.com/2009/09/30/p...phin/#more-5243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Wonderful picture Jason. What is the orange poly boat? Now that looks like a boat made for play as opposed to a sea kayak suitable for play. Ed Lawson The orange boat was a prototype boat that was made of fiberglass boat that would be made in poly if it was to go production. I thought it was fairly cool in that it had two skegs installed inline as they were figuring out the best location. I don't think that it had a name as it was still in development. If you notice the hatches they had locations but the hatches weren't cut our or installed. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 ...and has the Nordkapp LV been considered? I paddled one this past weekend. I'm pretty sure that I prefer the Anas Acuda, but the Nordkapp LV was decidedly faster and still very maneuverable and playful. Emilie really liked it. Nordkapp LV is nowhere near as reassuring as a Cetus or Force boat, but can be more fun than either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.