EEL Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My boat is most definitely a fine, sea-worthy craft and I love it dearly, but maybe that extra margin of stability in extreme conditions would allow me to avoid the dreaded brain freeze syndrome. Tyson's suggestion is an excellent one as a hood, especially a nice diver's hood largely takes away the problem. I am a big fan of ear plugs too. I believe the other thing that really helps is to do a few rolls regularly as the temps drop so you get acclimatized so to speak. Otherwise it can be a big shock. Once you have done so in water down into the 30's, you would be surprised how balmy 50 degree water can feel. Assuming you are just rolling/sculling in it. Being timid, I see nothing wrong in moderating the conditions I paddle in given the more serious nature of the activity in the winter. Even modest paddling in winter has its rewards and challenges. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Tyson's suggestion is an excellent one as a hood, especially a nice diver's hood largely takes away the problem. I am a big fan of ear plugs too. I believe the other thing that really helps is to do a few rolls regularly as the temps drop so you get acclimatized so to speak. Otherwise it can be a big shock. Once you have done so in water down into the 30's, you would be surprised how balmy 50 degree water can feel. Assuming you are just rolling/sculling in it. Being timid, I see nothing wrong in moderating the conditions I paddle in given the more serious nature of the activity in the winter. Even modest paddling in winter has its rewards and challenges. Ed Lawson Well said, Ed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbjorn Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Tyson's suggestion is an excellent one as a hood, especially a nice diver's hood largely takes away the problem. I am a big fan of ear plugs too. I believe the other thing that really helps is to do a few rolls regularly as the temps drop so you get acclimatized so to speak. Ed -- After your earlier post comparing the effect of cranial cold water exposure to eating ice cream too fast, and never having paddled in cold water, I went down to my local pond to get some first hand experience. I'm guessing the water temp was about 50. First roll felt cold but no problem. Second roll-- really colder than I expected for my little pond, a little achy. Third roll -- definitely cold! Fourth roll it happened -- indistinguishable from the ice cream effect. As much as I wanted to practice more (having blown my roll when I needed it off Crane Beach the previous weekend), the pain was too much and just paddled around the pond instead. Tyson and Ed -- good suggestions about the hood. I'm going to find a diver's hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pintail Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 <...but maybe that extra margin of stability in extreme conditions would allow me to avoid the dreaded brain freeze...> You mean primary stability, then? Well, perhaps the Avocet has more than the Nordkapp; but I still think you're on the wrong track here! Wouldn't it be cheaper and more advantageous (in the long run) simply to practise your braces and paddling on edge than to rush out and buy another boat for winter? By the way, the Nordkapp has plenty of <secondary> stability, if that's of any comfort? One of our former members here advocated a film (alright, a slathering, perhaps?) of silicone jelly on the forehead to reduce the cold shock: maybe that would work for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 <...but maybe that extra margin of stability in extreme conditions would allow me to avoid the dreaded brain freeze...>You mean primary stability, then? Well, perhaps the Avocet has more than the Nordkapp; but I still think you're on the wrong track here! Wouldn't it be cheaper and more advantageous (in the long run) simply to practise your braces and paddling on edge than to rush out and buy another boat for winter? By the way, the Nordkapp has plenty of <secondary> stability, if that's of any comfort?Yes, The Nordkapp should be fine in winter. Most winter paddling means more prudence in all areas: choosing what days to paddle or not to , choosing what to wear, using way more prudence in rock gardens and surf, or avoiding them altogether. Maybe it's just the time of year for touring, seeing the sights, enjoying the quiet, noticing that Oldsquaw or white -winged scoter that you were otherwise too busy rolling to even notice . Maybe more long-distance paddling: in winter you're comfy in the cockpit, it's when you're out of it that the trouble can start. In short, minimize the kind of paddling that will make a capsize more likely. You won't need a new boat to do all of that.But then again: we all need a good rationalization to get a new boat . Saying that you're doing it for the sake of safety, tha's a good one; it may enable you to sneak another boat into the fleet with minimal spousal opprobrium. get thee to a nunnery! ... oops , I mean, a kayak store, and nab yourself a Kokatat Surfskin Balaclava. You'll be toasty and comfy for most paddles. Highly recommended! But hey, all this chatter is perfect fodder for the Coldwater Clinic. Get thee to a Cold Water Clinic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcohn Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Tyson and Ed -- good suggestions about the hood. I'm going to find a diver's hood. You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. A good surfer's hood should be made to minimize a large influx of cold water around the face that frequently occurs when your head hits the water surface. Since this is not an issue when diving, the hoods are not designed reduce the neoprene stretch around the face. Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. A good surfer's hood should be made to minimize a large influx of cold water around the face that frequently occurs when your head hits the water surface. Since this is not an issue when diving, the hoods are not designed reduce the neoprene stretch around the face. Ralph I don't know how dive hoods compare to surf hoods, but this is the one that I use when the water is cold: http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=sba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That's my favorite too, but just because of the fleecey breathable mouthguard. There are MANY cheap decent balaklavas every where that would work to simply prevent the ice cream headache. I also found a nice one from OR (Outdoor Research?) on sale at REI last year, as I can't find the damned Kokatat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. Correct, not being a surfer or a diver, I Iumped them together. I use an O'neill's which is a surfer's hood I believe in retrospect. While the Surfkin stuff is very nice..I like some thick neoprene on my head when I intend to have my head in really cold water. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Millar Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That's my favorite too, but just because of the fleecey breathable mouthguard. There are MANY cheap decent balaklavas every where that would work to simply prevent the ice cream headache. I also found a nice one from OR (Outdoor Research?) on sale at REI last year, as I can't find the damned Kokatat.... Do you mean you can't find the Kokatat hood at REI or you've misplaced it at home? If the former, REI seems to carry them routinely, especially at this time of the year. I've bought both of ours there. Try REI on line. Deb M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 It would appear that I am very interested. I would be able to do next weekend but may be busy on the weekend of the 15th. Tyson, If you are buys on the 15th, you could attend the cold water clinic that Coastal Maine Kayak is sponsoring on Saturday Nov 7. http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6488 Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Tyson, If you are busy on the 15th, you could attend the cold water clinic that Coastal Maine Kayak is sponsoring on Saturday Nov 7. http://www.nspn.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6488 Suz We have already RSVP'd for the 7th and plan to be there. Thanks! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcohn Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You'll be much better off looking for a surfer's hood rather than a diver's hood. A good surfer's hood should be made to minimize a large influx of cold water around the face that frequently occurs when your head hits the water surface. Since this is not an issue when diving, the hoods are not designed reduce the neoprene stretch around the face. Ralph This is the hood I have which works well. http://www.oregonsurfshop.com/Oneill-3mm-C...-Hood-0042.html Only issue may be that the drawstring is thin bungee rather than a non-stretch cord. I may replace it sometime. I haven't tried other surf hoods but from the pictures online they do not appear to all be equal. Tuilik hoods also work very well due to the tight drawstring around the face. I would not care to roll in cold water using a fleece balaclava. If the water is really cold I would add my diver's Ice Cap under the hood which WILL eliminate all ice cream headaches. See http://www.shopwiki.com/Henderson+Wetsuits+Ice+Cap Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I haven't tried other surf hoods but ... I would not care to roll in cold water using a fleece balaclava. Not to detract from the hoods you like which I have not tried, but the one I use works extremely well. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcohn Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Not to detract from the hoods you like which I have not tried, but the one I use works extremely well. I would think it would be hard to tell if a hood works "extremely well" if you haven't had any experience with the alternatives. Also, we don't know what the water temperatures were when you used the hood. Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I would think it would be hard to tell if a hood works "extremely well" if you haven't had any experience with the alternatives. Yes I can. I am comfortably warm when using it and suffer pain when I don't. I made claims about a hood that I have tried. You made claims about hoods you have NOT tried. Can you please explain why this results in you chastising me? Also, we don't know what the water temperatures were when you used the hood. Partially frozen surface. Is that cold enough to make any claims? Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcohn Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Yes I can. I am comfortably warm when using it and suffer pain when I don't. Ty You're claiming you are comfortably warm, when fully immersed (ie. underwater) while wearing a fleece hood, when there is ice in the water? Just want to get this straight. Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 You're claiming you are comfortably warm, when fully immersed (ie. underwater) while wearing a fleece hood, when there is ice in the water? Just want to get this straight. Ralph I think there is a misunderstanding. It is a fleece _LINED_ hood. Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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