Doug Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 http://www.wmur.com/news/20066180/detail.html Search for body continues this morning. (Thursday) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Body Found http://www.wmur.com/news/20066180/detail.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leong Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Body Found http://www.wmur.com/news/20066180/detail.html "he and his fiancee were experienced kayakers, friends said." Oh yeah, real experienced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 "he and his fiancee were experienced kayakers, friends said." Oh yeah, real experienced! This is the problem with "experienced" as a measure of skill. I'm sure they were quite experienced leisurely paddling on flat lakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 "he and his fiancee were experienced kayakers, friends said." Oh yeah, real experienced! I suppose there is a difference between experience and skill. These two didn't have even the skill to hold on to their boats while in the water?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 I understand that his kayaking attire included jeans & sneakers. Sorry, I couldn't resist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I suppose there is a difference between experience and skill. These two didn't have even the skill to hold on to their boats while in the water?! then that would be akin to the two who had to be rescued by helicopter from Plum Island Sound a couple of years ago...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 then that would be akin to the two who had to be rescued by helicopter from Plum Island Sound a couple of years ago...? Those two were not on a flat lake. These two were. ...I guess I should have been more specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 then that would be akin to the two who had to be rescued by helicopter from Plum Island Sound a couple of years ago...? That wasn't called for. The two off PI, keep one of the boats, had PFD's, Radios, Dry Suits, Flairs, etc. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry s Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I suppose there is a difference between experience and skill. These two didn't have even the skill to hold on to their boats while in the water?! Unfortunate choice of words by the friend. "They were foolish, naive kayakers" would have been more appropriate. They lacked the experience and skill to know what to do when one goes for a swim but doesn't know how to swim!@#$ An experienced kayaker paddles with the knowledge that someday he/she will be swimming and has the skill to do something about it. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzert Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 All I can say is that I hope the loved ones of the poor unfortunate person who lost his life this morning never stumble on this thread. Barry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glil Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 All I can say is that I hope the loved ones of the poor unfortunate person who lost his life this morning never stumble on this thread. Barry. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 All I can say is that I hope the loved ones of the poor unfortunate person who lost his life this morning never stumble on this thread. Barry. Yes Barry, you are right. That would surely be embarrassing. I think that our comments are a bit out of context however. This poor fellow innocently forfeited his life doing something he enjoyed. This was the common link we had with him. I'm always taken back by the press and their free use of the word "experienced". As informed individuals and as a club, safety is probably one of the most important goals we strive to maintain. I believe that most of us simply get mad when we read about an accident that could have been easily avoided by practicing simple safety guidelines and some common sense. My heart goes out to the family. It's was a tragic waste,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Nystrom Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Let's not get all PC here. The bottom line is that he died because he was irresponsible. He had a PFD, but didn't wear it, despite the fact that he couldn't swim. I hate to see anyone die needlessly and his death was his own fault, plain and simple. Sometimes the truth hurts, but that's life. It's too bad that the article didn't state that if he had simply been wearing his PFD, he would have survived. I'll bet his girlfriend doesn't paddle without hers on again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob budd Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Part of the point of doing "triage" on this sort of incident is to learn from it. Its the comments that could be seen to make sport of the incident that are least appropriate. Bottom line, swimmer or not, wear a PFD boating on NE waters and many tragic endings can be averted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Bottom line, swimmer or not, wear a PFD boating on NE waters and many tragic endings can be averted. I feel that this sort of no-judgement policy can go too far. If I go swimming, do I have to wear a PFD? If I have a floaty raft, do I need a PFD for that? ...what about an inner tube? I grew up playing with my grandparents' canoe. Canoeing was often more of a swimming activity for me than a paddling activity. The canoe spent a lot of time upside down or swamped because that seemed like fun. I would also swim the roughly 1/4 mile to a nearby island. If I swim up to a canoe while not wearing a PFD, is that unsafe? If I get in that canoe, am I suddenly less safe than I was while swimming? IMHO, blanket statements that PFDs must _ALWAYS_ be worn fail to consider why we wear them and what the can and can-not do for us. The PFD's that we typically wear while kayaking will not safe us if knocked unconscious. If we are otherwise in a context where we would be happy spending an extended period of time in the water swimming, I don't see a problem with boating without a PFD. ...though this guy did not qualify. It should be noted that I can't recall a time that I've kayaked without one, but I wouldn't rule it out under all circumstances. Cheers! Ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob budd Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 If you reread this you will see it is not a "no-judgement policy" but simply a statement of how one can reduce their risks. "If I go swimming" you are no longer boating. I swam in the ocean last weekend and do so often, kayak and PFD on shore. As regards "boating without a PFD" people do so often without a bad result but if an accident/injury happens the PDF is going to increase your chances of being rescued alive. I've used a canoe as a swimming platform much like you describe and more than once had to swim/paddle after the (loose) PFDs when the canoe somehow capsized. I've sailed with PFDs at the ready and usually worn during difficult circumstances. I don't want to engage in a debate about judgement, the length of such debates on this message board is the stuff of legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I don't want to engage in a debate about judgement, the length of such debates on this message board is the stuff of legend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcosloy Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 All I can say is that I hope the loved ones of the poor unfortunate person who lost his life this morning never stumble on this thread. Barry. I do think that when a death occurs other than trying to learn what went wrong and how others can learn from it, it is important to remain respectful of the feelings of others close to the victim. We see the same thing being played out on the nightly news with drivers either killing others or themselves who are either intoxicated or not wearing seat belts or both. It seems to be a similar sense of immortality in spite of the laws of physics in the case of the auto and a rejection of simple biology in the case of the boat. Humans don’t have gills. We can shake our heads and joke about “Darwin Awards†but it doesn’t change the conclusion: a human tragedy has unfolded. “No man is an Island. Don’t ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.†Death will win out in the end, it will come to us all, both the expert and the ignorant alike. When a great sportsman goes to his death doing what he loves we celebrate his skill and daring. When a poor soul falls in the drink and drowns we sneer at his lack of preparation. For everyone else though it will be what they did before they died that will matter most to those that loved them as it will be with you and me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefloats Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 very sad... based on what I've read/heard, I can't imagine what the finacee is going through right now. All I can think is - I have the bin of NSPN literature in my possession at the moment. If there are any volunteers who want me to send them a handful of safety brochures to hand out to your friends in passing (maybe just so they pass them along to THEIR friends), please email me at heidi@nspn.org. They could even be kept in your glove compartment for those few occasions at a put in when someone asks you where you bought your kayak... "Six Degrees of Separation" being what they are, and the fact that there have been a few incidents in the area lately, I'm thinking the more we hand out the better. You never know who might end up reading it that might ultimately end up benefiting from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyson Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 All I can think is - I have the bin of NSPN literature in my possession at the moment. If there are any volunteers who want me to send them a handful of safety brochures to hand out to your friends (maybe just so they pass them along to THEIR friends) in passing, please email me at heidi@nspn.org. They could even be kept in your glove compartment for those few occasions at a put in when someone asks you where you bought your kayak... "Six Degrees of Separation" being what they are, and the fact that there have been a few incidents in the area lately, I'm thinking the more we hand out the better. You never know who might end up reading it that might ultimately end up benefiting from it. Now that is a constructive comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (back in the states) Nice to see this thread come somewhat full circle. Figured if we are the ones that try to set a good example as an organization and as individuals that when we read of someone dying doing a sport we are passionate about the thought of sending our condolences would be far more compasionate than the tendency to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopefloats Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 very sad... based on what I've read/heard, I can't imagine what the finacee is going through right now. All I can think is - I have the bin of NSPN literature in my possession at the moment. If there are any volunteers who want me to send them a handful of safety brochures to hand out to your friends in passing (maybe just so they pass them along to THEIR friends), please email me at heidi@nspn.org. They could even be kept in your glove compartment for those few occasions at a put in when someone asks you where you bought your kayak... "Six Degrees of Separation" being what they are, and the fact that there have been a few incidents in the area lately, I'm thinking the more we hand out the better. You never know who might end up reading it that might ultimately end up benefiting from it. Special thanks to the two folks who responded so far. The offer stands if there are any more takers... I'll be handing them out more myself as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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