rossjb1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Bob, just in case you missed it on the last topic thread Is it possible to organize some workshops involving revamping our teaching of skills/experiental teaching/learning. Perhaps we can get Bob to come back to teach. Maybe a Kayak Camp. I'm thinking of the syllabus now...hmmmm.... I know How about this... Day1: Introduction/lecture: The importance of causing chaos whenever possible Morning- Proper techniques of overturning your buddies kayak Break for Lunch Afternoon- Instruction through ridicule and berating "Your forward stroke sucks" Day 2: Morning- Techniques for towing 5 or more rafted kayaks whilst the two outside paddlers paddle backwards Break for Lunch Afternoon- Proper forward stroke technique to most efficiently run up onto the rear deck of your buddies kayak. Day 3: Morning- Group management and leadership or deciding Who dumps who and who gets dumped first. Break for Lunch Afternoon- Techniques for counseling the paranoid and stressed out paddler. Final Evening- Bob whadya think? Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 As long as you are buying the Guinness all week brother. You BTW, are first on the hitlist. Maybe I'll just have Alex take you down Joking aside, not all students benefit from my style, but the hungry, focused ones do. Most have had serious coaching in their past and get it.BBob, just in case you missed it on the last topic thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Crouse Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I feel the need to chime in here and let everybody know that Bob is not someone who is going to capsize everybody he meets. He knows who needs pushing and who needs a more gentle approach. I've talked to people who had no desire to meet Bob because they thought he was going to steal their paddle, tip them over, etc.... When they actually met him they realized that he's not some crazy maniac who just attacks other kayakers, he's a great teacher and mentor. Having said all that I do feel the need for Bob to come back here and whip me back into shape with some combat kayaking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjb1 Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 I feel the need to chime in here and let everybody know that Bob is not someone who is going to capsize everybody he meets. He knows who needs pushing and who needs a more gentle approach. I've talked to people who had no desire to meet Bob because they thought he was going to steal their paddle, tip them over, etc.... When they actually met him they realized that he's not some crazy maniac who just attacks other kayakers, he's a great teacher and mentor. Having said all that I do feel the need for Bob to come back here and whip me back into shape with some combat kayaking! Yes of course, on the reunion paddle Bob clearly asked who among us were interested in ataining our BCU 4. Of the people who replied (me included) he was generous with his time, energy, and patience. He was genuinely interested in teaching and improving/increasing my skill level. He challenged my skills and set the bar higher for me that day and on our other paddles that week. The people who were not interested in instruction seemed to enjoy the antics. Yes a good teacher/coach and paddling companion. Hope people don't take it seriously or get the wrong impression. Just having fun with these icons and busting his chops Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick stoehrer Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 "...not all students benefit from my style, but the hungry, focused ones do." that's a bold statement - probably doesn't ease the apprehension of more tentative students. <chuckle...all i can see is diedrich bader doing his "rex" kwon do in the napolean dynamite movie!> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkilroy Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've never met Bob but I do know the folks who have taken him on to lead and teach with their organization. These are well known and highly respected members of the northwest paddle scene and there is no way they would let Bob near their clients unless he absolutely promised to be kind and take his meds every day. Lets invite him back for some controlled mayhem. To be sure; we have some excellent instructors and mentors who make themselves available to those that seek advancement. There is no shortage of willing talent amongst us. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjb1 Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 But seriously folks... Perhaps we should be thinking about organizing an NSPN symposium. How long has it been since the club has gotten something like that together? Perhaps we could tap into Bobs expertise and his connections in the NW as well our home grown talent. Yes a lot of work but could be worth it. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry s Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've never met Bob but I do know the folks who have taken him on to lead and teach with their organization. These are well known and highly respected members of the northwest paddle scene and there is no way they would let Bob near their clients unless he absolutely promised to be kind and take his meds every day. Lets invite him back for some controlled mayhem. To be sure; we have some excellent instructors and mentors who make themselves available to those that seek advancement. There is no shortage of willing talent amongst us. Jon I've only met "B" once in my paddling years. Since his reputation preceeded him I knew immediately what to expect when he surfaced in front of my kayak on a lake session. It was my first season with NSPN and when Bob popped up in front of me I was a bit apprehensive. He sensed this immediately and ask if I was ready to "go in". I shrugged and over I went. He stayed by my side through the whole process of re-entry. I said to myself "this is my kind of teacher". Everyone has a different style of teaching and learning. I have learned most of what I know from other NSPN members both more skilled and less skilled. The less skilled because it reminds me of where I once was and have learned to empathize and "pass along" what I have learned. The point is NSPN still has great teachers. You may not know who you are but some of us are watching and learning all the time. This may be passive learning but it is learning just the same. Thank you to all the "old timers" that I have actively learned from and to those that I still learn from every time I go out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Crouse Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I'll follow Suz's suggestion a list of some of the stuff we've done, and should do again. This isn't strictly for us old timers (am I an old timer!?!?) to pine for the old days, it's to get our butts moving again and give us all some ideas for fun. Rescues in current, we did this in behind Plum Island. Try a tow line to stop the rescue from drifting. That was fun! Towing.... lots of towing..... towing Bob back to Pavallion from Plum Island across the current. I managed to stay with the group. Towing lots of kayaks, 10 or more in Hingham, we had all been camping so the boats were heavy. Bob wasn't even around for this. Someone out there took pictures of me towing everybody, I'd love to get them. Tow a disabled power boat out of a cove on a lake so he could get a (faster) tow. Wouldn't have known I could do that without the previous towing experience. Rolls, rescues, etc... at most every beach break. Spinning boats on every trip, the old plastic Capellas were the best :-) Having us all paddle backwards for the last mile of a trip. Follow the leader/Simon says.... leader does a hanging draw, we all do hanging draws, etc.... The all in rescue, the larger the group the more Bob wanted to do one. That infamous castle neck show & go. I think we had 20+ kayakers paddling through a mile of 2-3ft surf. Some of us even made it without swimming. Lead a trip in 50mph winds..... ok lets not do that again Once we all followed the trip leader to the halfway point we were told to try to find our own way back. I always had a chart and paid attention after that. Got asked the weather forecast and tides before we launched. Everyone should know that for themselves, not just the leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leonard Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Hey Mike, you forgot spending half the morning practicing your roll with half a paddle. Then breaking one for real in the afternoon! The "let's pull the hatches and flip 'em" rodeo was always a hit. Extra points are awarded if you break the hatch lip away from the hull and force a field expedient repair. Getting the victim laughing hysterically before tipping was also encouraged so they would blow their roll. Doing random ties to a tow rope and other boats and making the leader sort it out was always a hoot...especially in Woods Hole on a windy day. Sounds like we could have a great start of the season rescue practice event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjb1 Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 Michael, this is what I wrote on the other thread if you didn't see it... If some people feel that energy is missing from the Club then the we perhaps we can re-ignite. That would be fine with me. Perhaps with yours and other peoples input we can further expand the list of activities and drills that we can do our trips. Not too long ago I tried to find a BCU coaching guide that would have practice drills but couldn't find it. One of the things that Peter and I were doing to teach and practice our stern rudder was to have one person tow and the towie would be able to practice edging and proper paddle placement without having to paddle. We didn't do this but one could also use this method to practice rolling while being towed. Most of us do our rolls in a stationary position but in reality we are usually moving down a wave when we go over. practicing a roll while being towed would help with becoming familiar with the sensation of rolling while being propelled forward Any one else? Lets keep the ideas/suggestions/comments coming. We can brainstorm them here and then compile a list then post it as a separate Topic. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 As I see it, you don't need me to kick start the machine. All you all need is desire and a little time. As is said, "Many hands make for lite work." The old NSPN wasn't the work of one person, it took many dedicated members to make the machine work. From what I'm hearing(just stories), Kevin left the presidents position because you all weren't happy with his work. Let me say this again. One person can't do all the work! Harsh? YES. Reality, YES. I don't know anything but what I've been told so I can't make any judgments. You've taken action, now it's time to step up and put your money where your mouth is. Step up or shut up! Here's the challenge: 10 members = 20 trips @ 2 trips each. If you want to do more go for it. On each trip occurs a SOLO. That's a Sudden Onset Learning Opportunity, or as some call it here, Sudden Hazardous Incident Training or SHIT. Also during each trip someone teaches a stroke for all to practice during the trip. Remember that "follow the leader" exercise Mike spoke of? 5 members teach a focused 4 hour rescue session or a focused stroke session. The point is - If you build it they will come. It may take a little time, but if you work together as we did in the early days you can have an active healthy club again. Oh, one more really important thing. "Politics ruins everything" BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 QUOTE(B @ Mar 23 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>From what I'm hearing(just stories), Kevin left the presidents position because you all weren't happy with his work. Here's the challenge: On each trip occurs Sudden Hazardous Incident Training Before I say "Check Please", may I add a few contrarian comments. First, what is going on when it is stated on the club's website for the first time by someone, who lives on the other side of the country, repeating a "story" a/k/a rumor, that the club's President has resigned. May I suggest if there are notable changes in the club leadership then it behooves those left standing to advise the membership of what is going on and what may happen in the future. Which begs the questions. Is this a club? What are members? Second, I agree that practice is important, I agree building a good skill set is important, I agree there should be training opportunities in realistic settings. On the other hand, to what end is all this practice? Is it an end unto itself? Or is it intended to create and maintain proficiency so that people can take interesting and challenging journeys should they desire to do so and be prepared if something should go wrong. Don't people have better things to do and places to visit than turn every paddle into some purported practice session? Folks should do what they want and if they want to endlessly practice skills and play games that is their business and to each his own. The question is whether every trip should include such activity and every participant should be obligated to buy into the same mindset. Consider the possibility that others may not enjoy or care to participate in certain activities or the way some activities are presented. Let alone not everyone learns the same way nor has a personality in tune with certain approaches. Third, consider the possibility that meaningful practice of rescues has an inherent risk of injury and damage. Why increase the probability of either by engaging in such activity more than is appropriate to learn and become/maintain a reasonable level of proficiency? Unless of course such activity is what kayaking is all about to you, then go to it. Fourth, I believe it would be very unfortunate if members, prospective, new, or exisiting were lead to believe that they cannot enjoy the sport, cannot take interesting and enjoyable journeys, and cannot be "real" seakayakers unless they engage in certain activities. Fifth, I believe it would be very unfortunate if the club's activities exclusively followed a pattern which effectively excluded members not so disposed. Perhaps I misread what the club is supposedly all about...you know...all that nice sounding stuff on the website. Then again, what do I know? I'm a timid woodland creature. My comments may simply reflect the fact the club's focus is not mine and its a bad fit. After all, there is not right or wrong here, its just a matter of how we choose to spend our spare time. However, I think the time has come to say, "Check please". I wish you all well. My only regret is not having paddled with some of you and not to have paddled more with others. Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Before I say "Check Please", may I add a few contrarian comments. First, what is going on when it is stated on the club's website for the first time by someone, who lives on the other side of the country, repeating a "story" a/k/a rumor, that the club's President has resigned. May I suggest if there are notable changes in the club leadership then it behooves those left standing to advise the membership of what is going on and what may happen in the future. Which begs the questions. Is this a club? What are members? Ed, I agree with you on this point. In my opinion, stories and rumors are major source of discontent in the paddling community. First, Bob is right on the fact that I did resign as President, effective last Wed. via a private communication with the BOD. Second, he is not correct in re the reasons for it. I resigned for several, some had to due with the direction of the Club with which I don't agree and some has to do with personal issues. I would have made a personal announcement by Wed. of this week, but I wanted to take time with my decision. For the moment, the Club has no President. Presumably one will be elected at the next BOD meeting in April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick stoehrer Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ....so very happy to be blithely unaware of much of anything within the club. ed, you have my email. best to the long suffering and esteemed mrs. woodland creature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Oh, one more really important thing. "Politics ruins everything" BB good lord then why on earth would you post something like this? what you just posted is politics and if something happened within the board, to start a rumor like that on the general message board, is unacceptable. geesh, i left the board so i wouldn't destroy all my kayak gear with the in-gighting and arguing, and now it's on the general message board - arrrggghh!!!! when does it end!! me thinks this will be my exit from perusing the nspn general message board . . . see you guys on the water and in trips boards for sure . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjb1 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yeesh! it seems as if my post post has been hijacked. The whole point of this post was to stimulate some thought on how some of us can further hone our skills. There are some of us who are interested in paddling as a sport perhaps such as white water kayakers do. There are those of us who enjoy the serenity of paddling on calmer waters communing with nature and enjoying the company of friends. I enjoy both. Ed, you and I have been on such a paddle together. It seems to me that the club is big enough to accommodate a variety of paddlers as well as paddling styles. If there are some among us who may wish to practice skills, or discuss drills there should be a place for that. If there are those among us who wish to describe a specific serene spot where they have spotted an osprey diving or an eagle circling above they should also be welcome. I believe that the more people take the initiative in carving out niches within the club the better. There should be room for paddlers who enjoy surfing or "rock gardening" as well as the birders or people who simply enjoy paddling in the marshes. We all have our own different reasons for getting out there on the water. But remember, we all share the common bound of our enjoyment of the waters as well as our friendships. Lets not forget that. Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterB Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Before I say "Check Please", may I add a few contrarian comments.First, what is going on when it is stated on the club's website for the first time by someone, who lives on the other side of the country, repeating a "story" a/k/a rumor, that the club's President has resigned. May I suggest if there are notable changes in the club leadership then it behooves those left standing to advise the membership of what is going on and what may happen in the future. Which begs the questions. Is this a club? What are members?Yes, this is a club. Members are, well, members. .If a president resigns, its not the revocation of the Edict of Nantes, or the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto, or 9/11 , it's a president of a kayak club resigning. A new president emerges when the Board, all of whom are volunteers , is able to make it happen. And its announced when a group of nine to fourteen people currently without a president can make it happen. Second, I agree that practice is important, I agree building a good skill set is important, I agree there should be training opportunities in realistic settings. On the other hand, to what end is all this practice? Is it an end unto itself? Or is it intended to create and maintain proficiency so that people can take interesting and challenging journeys should they desire to do so and be prepared if something should go wrong. Don't people have better things to do and places to visit than turn every paddle into some purported practice session? Folks should do what they want and if they want to endlessly practice skills and play games that is their business and to each his own. The question is whether every trip should include such activity and every participant should be obligated to buy into the same mindset. Consider the possibility that others may not enjoy or care to participate in certain activities or the way some activities are presented. Let alone not everyone learns the same way nor has a personality in tune with certain approaches. Who is "endlessly practising skills" and turning every paddle into a skills session. ? and who has said that practising skills is an end unto itself? Not me, Not anyone else I know. If the club , or individuals in the club arrange some skills sessions, what's wrong with that ? Its just a skills session, not a statement on the direction of the club, any more than a Holiday party is a statement on overeating and raffle prizes. Third, consider the possibility that meaningful practice of rescues has an inherent risk of injury and damage. Why increase the probability of either by engaging in such activity more than is appropriate to learn and become/maintain a reasonable level of proficiency? Unless of course such activity is what kayaking is all about to you, then go to it. Any number of paddling scenarios pose inherent risks, which is why... some of us practice rescues! I've paddled with a pretty wide variety of club members and ex-members, and am unaware of anyone practicing rescues just to practice rescues. Fourth, I believe it would be very unfortunate if members, prospective, new, or exisiting were lead to believe that they cannot enjoy the sport, cannot take interesting and enjoyable journeys, and cannot be "real" seakayakers unless they engage in certain activities. Who is saying or implying that ? If there's a skill session, it's just that, a skills session, not a metaphysical statement on the direction of the club, any more than, say a Greenland paddle making workshop held last summer (and probably again this summer) is a statement on the movement of the club in a Greenland direction , that should then make non stickers feel alienated, not welcome to the club. It's just a workshop, that hopefully will be of benefit to those who attend , and perhaps introduce others to Greenlandic stuff. Fifth, I believe it would be very unfortunate if the club's activities exclusively followed a pattern which effectively excluded members not so disposed. Perhaps I misread what the club is supposedly all about...you know...all that nice sounding stuff on the website. What activities are exclusively following a pattern, and effectively excluding members not so disposed? There are lots of club activities: greenland paddle workshops (do they effectively exclude Eurobladers?) , parties with alcohol (do they effectively exclude teetotalers?) , inland paddles(do they effectively exclude coastal and ocean paddlers?), , classes on navigation and camping,(do they effectively exclude members not interested in navigation or camping) pool sessions. Does every workshop and activity have to represent everyone, or have some grand meaning read into it? Then again, what do I know? I'm a timid woodland creature.My comments may simply reflect the fact the club's focus is not mine and its a bad fit.After all, there is not right or wrong here, its just a matter of how we choose to spend our spare time. Since you brought it up on line: What's your focus? However, I think the time has come to say, "Check please". I wish you all well. My only regret is not having paddled with some of you and not to have paddled more with others. You are quitting the club on- line? I hope not! Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Looks like I stepped in it again. My apologies to Kevin and Gillian. I didn't know it wasn't public. I'm going paddling now and staying off this friggin board. Too much drama for me. Happy trails, BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossjb1 Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ed, I don't know if your still reading this thread or not (or anyone for that matter considering what it led to) but I would like to expand upon an analogy that might help to explain my starting this topic in the first place. I have always admired people who had the patience to go birding. I see it as a great way to learn about the outdoors and appreciate the natural world. Now lets say I was a birder and belonged to the club. I would probably be posting trips specifically for the purpose of IDing birds. I am a teacher (in real life) and I would likely enjoy teaching about birding. Perhaps drills on the water "Who can ID that bird" "What is the coloring of ___", "What is the mating behavior of _____ ". Maybe even assign people specific whistles that the other paddlers would have to ID. Perhaps ambush people with Bird ID cards if there were no birds to be seen, maybe sneak up on an unsuspecting fellow paddler and challenge them with one of the whistles or songs for them to ID. All to paddle, teach be with friends and make it fun at the same time. If I were not into birding I wouldn't accompany. Perhaps I would join the group but not partake in the exercises or drills. But the things is we are all still in the same club but with different interests. I hope that puts it in a different perspective. BTW the way the service at this place is quite slow...it takes forever to get your check. In the meantime how about hanging around for a few more years of paddling with the club. Ross P.S Since I began this topic, might I ask from this point forward respond to what I have written here. If you do not have something positive to say then keep it off this thread. Thanks Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Peter: The Edict of Nantes? You can always be counted upon to bring us back to earth laughing. Thank you. Focus? I know not. I put the paddle in the water, and a journey unfolds. Sometimes I gaze upon seals, eagles and osprey. Sometimes I visit islands filled with history. Sometimes I struggle with a wayward Greenland kayak. Sometimes I relish the sound, sight and smell of water upon rock. Sometimes the enjoyment of solitude and sometimes the enjoyment of companions. It is all good. Unfortunately St. Bartholomew's Day massacre preceded the Edit of Nantes which was revoked by the Edict of Fontainebleau. In other words, the circle of absurdity never ends and it is folly to rail against it Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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