Private Trips v. NSPN Trips?

[EEL]

Like a bad penny, this topic comes around again. This Sunday on Gary's trip I raised the topic, being a disruptive sort, of whether this was an NSPN CA Model trip or was this a private trip and in any event how could one tell the difference except by form of announcement. Are folks intending to simply post on the private trip section and forego posting on the calendar (which I believe transforms it into a NSPN CA Model trip)? Can anyone now post a CA Model trip? Seems the club runs the risk of going another year with few if any "formal" as opposed to "private" trips if so. Or maybe its too early and I'm just being obsessive...well...it is NSPN so obsessive comes with the territory.

Perhaps some clarification or a change in the name of the Private Trip section?

Perhaps without shifting "private" trips onto the calendar it will continue to look a bit sparce and perhaps new members (and maybe not so new) are leery, for many reasons, of trip posted under the "private" category.

Perhaps no changes needed as folks seem to be out and about in any event.

Ed Lawson

[Bill Gwynn]

Hi Ed,

What you have speculated is correct. NSPN trips will be posted on the calendar. It will be the responsibility of any NSPN Paid Member to post the trip to the calendar. As to the differences between a NSPN Trip and a Private Trip, there are a few things. An NSPN trip will generally be posted more in advance on the calendar, but does not have to be. An NSPN trip is open only to Paid Members. An NSPN trip will require an RSVP for planning purposes. An NSPN trip will adhere to the CA standards. For more in please read this.

So, to kinda sum up things, NSPN trips will have a little more structure in planning and are only open to paid members. Private trips are generally more impromptu and are open to anyone. In the end, the actual paddling trips will have little difference as I believe most private trips are currently run in the spirit of the CA model. If anyone wants to have a better understanding of the CA Model, please read this.

Another thing to remember is that this is NSPN's first year using the CA Model, so we are all learning as we go. We may find in time, that changes will be needed to the Message Board and or Calendar. One of the great things with the club's new model is the flexibility it affords us to make changes as we go to best accommodate our members.

[subaruguru]

Trying to look at this naively as a newcomer would I think it'd be easier to have a message board category simply titled TRIPS, and then within these postings differentiate between sponsored outings and private ones, while still posting on the Calendar only the sponsored club trips.

Even after a couple years I'm not attuned to checking the separate Calendar for sponsored trips, and therefore digging through the cornucopia of General Messages (of which I'm among the most guilty) to find a rare sponsored trip is inefficient.

It would seem that posting sponsored trips on both the Calendar and a combined Trips grouping might result in more sponsored trips being formed, which I believe is the goal. It would then be up to the trip organizer to differentiate Private from Club.

Part of my reasoning is that when I see a shorthand announcement of a private trip at the last minute by RenaldoX paddling to Faraway Island, meeting at Putin-Clone, all without conditions or duration data I'm a bit at a loss as to how to proceed, since my knowledge of the geo of the seascape is still rudimentary. So having a short list of data, like difficulty Class, tide/wind/temp info, duration, pitstop/lunch options along the way, as well projected activity interest (surfing vs zoning out in the sun) might help drum up my interest, as well others.

My problem has always been my inability to plan ahead, given the nature of my Subie biz, and since it's waning in these recessionary times I don't know know whether to commit to a trip or stick around hoping for work (which seems less attractive now that I really write it down!). Life's only getting shorter, eh?

So I feel a bit stuck between being able to commit well ahead for a sponsored, well-defined trip and the last-minute invite to paddle privately to what seems like never-neverland since so little info is posted and there isn't always time to get it organized.

I realize that my personal quandary is not the norm, but I hope a bit helpful towards discussion of how to increase trip activity this year.

See you on the water soon.

Ern

[EEL]

Part of my reasoning is that when I see a shorthand announcement of a private trip at the last minute by RenaldoX paddling to Faraway Island, meeting at Putin-Clone, all without conditions or duration data I'm a bit at a loss as to how to proceed, since my knowledge of the geo of the seascape is still rudimentary. So having a short list of data, like difficulty Class, tide/wind/temp info, duration, pitstop/lunch options along the way, as well projected activity interest (surfing vs zoning out in the sun) might help drum up my interest, as well others.

I think this points to two things which could be addressed. First, posters should perhaps "flesh out" descriptions a bit to help others evaluate whether the trip is of interest/appropriate for them. Two, perhaps the club should have a workshop with a focus on stuff a member should know in order to be reasonably knowledgeable about evaluating trips and to be an active participant on one.

Ed Lawson

[gyork]

.... posters should perhaps "flesh out" descriptions a bit to help others evaluate whether the trip is of interest/appropriate for them. ....Ed Lawson

The Gerrish trip is a popular day trip and there are others (Misery, Castle Neck Circumnav, Great Bay, etc.). Perhaps the Board might consider adding a bar/button/menu option titled "Popular day paddles" or some such thing. A NSPNer might volunteer a trip description on the General Message Board, welcoming input from from other members familiar with the trip. There are many not-so-minor details to heed on the Gerrish trip (must be at the "culvert" <1.5 hours before or after high tide, water flows towards sea after HT, use care entering Brave Boat Harbor-stay to the ____, lots of wave action at the jetty, etc.) that a detailed account of such an outing might be useful to the general Membership. Something worth considering?

Gary

[Suz]

The Gerrish trip is a popular day trip and there are others (Misery, Castle Neck Circumnav, Great Bay, etc.). Perhaps the Board might consider adding a bar/button/menu option titled "Popular day paddles" or some such thing. A NSPNer might volunteer a trip description on the General Message Board, welcoming input from from other members familiar with the trip. There are many not-so-minor details to heed on the Gerrish trip (must be at the "culvert" <1.5 hours before or after high tide, water flows towards sea after HT, use care entering Brave Boat Harbor-stay to the ____, lots of wave action at the jetty, etc.) that a detailed account of such an outing might be useful to the general Membership. Something worth considering?

Gary

Any paid member can put up a NSPN trip. JUST DO IT as the commercial says.

Ideas that require the board to do something or Bill or Jason to reformat the website are just too much. I am no longer on the board but do know that even when there isn't a lot going on, it cuts into paddling time too much.

Rather than trying to rework a brand new system, why don't members use the system the way it is set up? If you are a paid member, put the trip on the calendar, if you aren't put a trip on the private trips. Over time people will learn how it works and after a season or so, THEN someone can volunteer to tweak it.

Sure your idea would be helpful to some but couldn't this be done through a really fleshed out trip report? That would be a way of sharing those pertinent details for the trip planning you did. It would save the info for posterity.

During a winter lull, some ambitious sole could do a frequently done trip section for the website.

Not trying to be a pain but sheesh it's APRIL - time to get some time on the water and salt in the veins!

Suz

[subaruguru]

The Gerrish trip is a popular day trip and there are others (Misery, Castle Neck Circumnav, Great Bay, etc.). Perhaps the Board might consider adding a bar/button/menu option titled "Popular day paddles" or some such thing. A NSPNer might volunteer a trip description on the General Message Board, welcoming input from from other members familiar with the trip. There are many not-so-minor details to heed on the Gerrish trip (must be at the "culvert" <1.5 hours before or after high tide, water flows towards sea after HT, use care entering Brave Boat Harbor-stay to the ____, lots of wave action at the jetty, etc.) that a detailed account of such an outing might be useful to the general Membership. Something worth considering?

Gary

Gary,

I think you've nailed it nicely. I don't think it takes more than a minute or two to fully flesh out a trip's particulars, especially if a format or grid model is used (ok, Suz, got your point!) someday.

Ern

[Deb Millar]

Perhaps it would be even more expedient to give a lot more info about the trip in the initial posting, whether it's a Private or a CAM. Gerrish, Misery, the circumnave of Crane are all very popular and there are known factors about them. I think it's only fair, especially with newer paddlers, to let them know what to expect. The organizer would, of course, know all the relevant info (weather, tide, wind speed and direction, any current, rocks, surfing possibilities, NM of trip) by checking the resources available on the 'net, such as Wet Sand, NESURF, Magic Seaweed,Tide Chart Index and put this info in the initial posting. This would then let a participant decide whether the trip was appropriate for their skill level. While there are many factors that can skew a trip, no matter how well informed, and even more so when we judge our kayaking abilities, at least there would be something concrete for people to plan/go on.

I agree with Suz that the message board has enough on it and that Bill and Jason, who volunteer to keep things humming, have real jobs (and lives) and thus probably not all the time in the world to devote to NSPN. Since, or at least that's my understanding, the NSPN Business section of the Board can only be viewed by paying members, then perhaps CAM trips should be posted there either with all the relevant info or a referral to the Calendar.

It is confusing as to what is a Private Trip and what is a NSPN CAM. Billy provided a very clear explanation of the differences. However, I think (for whatever that's worth) that more info, whether it's private or CAM, about the actual trip would be more than helpful and, hopefully, prevent people from biting off more than they can chew and thus ending up unhappy.

Deb M

[Gcosloy]

This post does raise a question in my mind. The older trip model was constrained by insurance needs. An NSPN formal trip was open to all, NSPN members for free and others if they paid a fee for the insurance. Now by adopting the CAM model to replace this, only NSPN members can participate in trips posted on the calender. Is this correct?

[EEL]

Well, after all is said and done, I think we should not make it more cumbersome for those few who post trips or NSPN may end up with no posted trips at all.

As long as I stirred the pot, may I suggest there are an adequate number of "active" paddling members of the club so that if each one posted just one trip a year NSPN would have more than enough trips. One trip a year would not seem to be a burden for anyone with an interest in the club. Perhaps therein lies the rub.

Ed Lawson

Turning the crank one more revolution

[gerry s]

It is confusing as to what is a Private Trip and what is a NSPN CAM. Billy provided a very clear explanation of the differences. However, I think (for whatever that's worth) that more info, whether it's private or CAM, about the actual trip would be more than helpful and, hopefully, prevent people from biting off more than they can chew and thus ending up unhappy.

Deb M

I think a lot of the popular paddle areas are taken for granted by the poster and the lack of info is part of the spontaneous nature of the posting. Perhaps if others are interested or curious about the trip they should simply ask by posting or contacting the poster directly? What am I missing here?!@##

Gerry

[Deb Millar]

While I agree that some trips are spontaneously posted, I think that the organizer should at least try and put some additional info up about the conditions, especially since there are new/newer members who might be paddling in the area for the first time.

You don't need to give a complete current/ebb/slack/flood, Beaufort Scale/Sea State, Sea Bed and its effects on wave action report, but it might be helpful to provide some basics like the wind speed for that day, high/low tide, and maybe a vague description of wave height. The organizer of the paddle would have this info anyway, so why not share it? People can than make an informed decision. I seem to remember seeing more than a few SNGs where the paddle organizer put in Trip Levels, which, while perhaps based on that person's particular take on the situation, could prove helpful. Whether someone took the poster up on the trip based on that info is, of course, the paddler's decision but it may have helped in some cases.

Yes, I know that things change and even NOAA can be wrong -- I've paddled a few times when Wet Sand predicted wave heights of 2' and it's been a lot larger and vice versa -- but a bit of info can't hurt and how long does it, take, any way, to put it in the original post? Probably a lot less than answering emails.

Just my thoughts, that's all. Paddling and having fun while being safe is what's important.

Deb M.