Advice on a new kayak

[Pintail]

I believe that Casey Carey may be selling one of hers...(she has two). I'll point her towards this thread.

[Gcosloy]

Possibly, the easiest handling boat of all time and not slow either. My only caveat is the cockpit is designed for a big paddler. CD came out with the Willow this season which they claim is a Gulfstream sized for small/medium paddlers.

[Michael_Crouse]

>Any one have one? Feelings about the Gulfstream?

The Gulfstream is a great all around boat, not too fast but it's not slow. It's very manuverable and it's got good gear storage room for camping. Most of the volume of the boat is centered around the paddler, the bow doesn't have too much volume. That means it can purl and it cuts down on the gear storage. It's stability is amazing, great initial and really good secondary. Some folks find it a little too stable (ie:dull) others love it and find it very reassuring.

short summary - jack of all trades - master of some

I loved my Gulfstream but found myself wanting something with a bit more speed and gear storage and I was willing to trade off some stability, so I got a NF Shadow..... then I wanted a bit more stability again..... so I got an Argonaut (aquanaut hv).... I sat in an Assateague and that was a great fit, but I refuse to try one in case I like it ;-)

[alcoons]

Thanks for all the advice so far. Stopped by Charles River Canoe and they were as helpful as always. Dave took care of me. Just wanted to find out what boats I might pursue.

** An Impex Force 4 just did not fit me.

** A Wilderness Systems Tempest 165 worked much better than its initial impressions. Not sure why it does not look good to me but it does not. However, it fits well, turned well, seemed reasonable fast, edged nicely. What are you opinions of this boat?

** They only had a Capella 161 and 171 in stock. Took the 161 out. Was just wonderful to sit in and paddle. Liked the lines and what appeared to be quality construction and attention to details. However, when I edged the boat a good bit I almost dumped. Thought it was early in the season and my fault, but it repeated on both sides. When I asked Dave he said it definitely has a point where the support for edging transitioned. Maybe the 163 or 167 are different but if not, I edge too much to be worried about this. Any opinions?

So. There are more boats to try, but that was a start.

PS. Stopped by an experienced paddler's house to borrow a boat for tomorrow. She mentioned how wonderful these discussions about boats and other gear are. Thanks to everyone for contributing your knowledge. I bet a lot more people than we realize value your input.

Al Coons

Eddyline Nighthawk

Red/White

[Deb Millar]

Hi Al,

My husband, Bob C, has been paddling a Tempest165PRO (I presume you were in the glass version) for the past 3 years. His first boat, as was mine, was a CD Slipstream, the LV version of the Gulfstream.

The Tempest has always handled well, has great manueverability, surfs and oozes nicely through rock gardens. While not the speediest kayak on the block, it moves a tad faster than my ExplorerLV -- whose handling I've found it resembles. Great secondary stability and the fit is really good; he's never had to pad it out and he's 5'9" and between 145-150 lbs. I am fond of this boat myself and paddle it whenever I feel like something a bit, at least weight-wise (my Explorer is on the hefty side), different.

The Tempest had some issues with leaky hatches awhile back, but that has been resolved.

I can't speak for him, but if you'd like to try his Tempest in moving water or for a bit more time, let us know.

Deb M

[Suz]

Al said:

** They only had a Capella 161 and 171 in stock. Took the 161 out. Was just wonderful to sit in and paddle. Liked the lines and what appeared to be quality construction and attention to details. However, when I edged the boat a good bit I almost dumped. Thought it was early in the season and my fault, but it repeated on both sides. When I asked Dave he said it definitely has a point where the support for edging transitioned. Maybe the 163 or 167 are different but if not, I edge too much to be worried about this. Any opinions?

What you experienced in edging was EXACTLY what I like so much about the boat. It just takes some getting used to. What happened when you were edging is that you got over enough (congrats - a lot of people don't notice this about the Capella's) that the stern released which then allowed it to slip faster and feel as if it is accelerating into the turn.

Something to play around with is to do an outside edge turn, stay on the edge and hold it and you will distinctly feel it slip out. This can really be a benefit when turning in tight places. Learn how to make it work for you. It will do the same on the inside edge but usually have a paddle in a low brace and therefore it isn't as distinctive.

Another thought - if you can fit into the 161,no need to try the 167 as it is surely too big for you.

I have a 163 that you can try out if you would like. Give me a shout off line and we can meet and you can try out the 161 and 163 side by side. I have a little pond nearby my house that is convenient or we could meet at Pavilion.

Suz

www.phpaddlers.com

[alcoons]

>Al said:

>

>** They only had a Capella 161 and 171 in stock. Took the

>161 out. Was just wonderful to sit in and paddle. Liked the

>lines and what appeared to be quality construction and

>attention to details. However, when I edged the boat a good

>bit I almost dumped. Thought it was early in the season and

>my fault, but it repeated on both sides. When I asked Dave

>he said it definitely has a point where the support for

>edging transitioned. Maybe the 163 or 167 are different but

>if not, I edge too much to be worried about this. Any

>opinions?

>

>

>What you experienced in edging was EXACTLY what I like so

>much about the boat. It just takes some getting used to.

>What happened when you were edging is that you got over

>enough (congrats - a lot of people don't notice this about

>the Capella's) that the stern released which then allowed it

>to slip faster and feel as if it is accelerating into the

>turn.

>

>Something to play around with is to do an outside edge turn,

>stay on the edge and hold it and you will distinctly feel it

>slip out. This can really be a benefit when turning in

>tight places. Learn how to make it work for you. It will do

>the same on the inside edge but usually have a paddle in a

>low brace and therefore it isn't as distinctive.

Thanks Suz. I loved the boat so I definitely want to try out your suggestions.

Al

[Bob C]

I paddle both a Tempest165PRO and a Pintail with an ocean cockpit. Primary stability is similar -- I can do a cowboy in both and I can stand in both -- but the Pintail is much lower volume and more nimble. Turns on the proverbial dime and extremely easy to edge. But then there's paddling in a straight line...

I can paddle both kayaks in a straight line but... the Pintail has so much rocker that paddling with the skeg down is almost always necessary. The Tempest weathercocks so I usually have the skeg down about an inch in the wind, more in high winds. Otherwise I edge as necessary to keep the boat straight. (P&H boats also weathercock, by design, as do NDK, though NDK boats seem to weathercock less.)

The stability of a boat is not only a function of the boat's hull design but also the paddler's body type and the boat's loading. To cite two extremes, Buddha-shaped paddlers tend to have a low center of gravity and thus can experience good primary and secondary stability from their kayaks; a weightlifter, on the other hand, with a big chest and shoulders, may experience less primary and secondary stability because of his higher center of gravity. Some long, skinny expedition kayaks (i.e., the Nordkapp) have to be loaded down for optimum stability.

I used to paddle a Slipstream, which has very little initial stability, and discussed this issue with its designer, who said that the boat is meant to be paddled with 100 lbs of gear. Note that the Slipstream doesn't have room for 100 lbs of gear! It's a cut down version of the Gulf Stream and is really a short boat for big people rather than a true low volume boat.

Just goes to show ya, there's a boat for every butt.

Cheers,

Bob