grant_cook Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 After talking to her, how about just asking her a simple question "Can you give me your name?" To which she'll reply "Why?", and you can follow up with "If you capize in that second line of breakers, you'll die of hypothermia trying to make it back to shore, and I want to tell the authorities whom they'll be searching for so they can notify your next of kin." Can't protect the obstinate from their own actions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traction Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Interestingly,i have, more than a few times, been told not to launch by people walking along Kings beach, (mostly in winter) sometimes they even threaten to call the cops! These are people who don't know the first thing about kayaking but think because they have a powerboat or a sailing dingy they know it all! There is seemingly no way to convince them that a kayak can be much more seaworthy than almost any other vessel with the proper equipment and skills. So i just tell em im tryen to get a Darwin Award and off i go. Nowadays i sometimes see the same people when I'm launching and they leave me be. Just another point of view... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albaz1369 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 The problem with notifying 911 of a potential problem is you have cast the liability on them, they are required now to respond immediately or as soon as resources are available and not terminate until a resolution is meet. Now you have taken a rescue squad out of service to sit until the paddler is back on shore. This rescue squad is now unable to respond to any other emergency that may arise. What you ultimately did was correct, wait for here to return. even though it was an inconvience to you, you felt a sense of responsibility and acted on it. Somewhere in heaven a star was placed next to your name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 Lotsa good observations, especially the ones about judgment, expertise being invisible, etc. I would just like to say (a) there are no absolutes here; it's a judgment call; ( the "correct" judgment in this case (in opinionated but not baseless 20-20 hindsight) is to intervene by at least informing the authorities. This is all IMHO, of course, but I want to assure people that I am not just blanket saying you should intervene if you see something happening. I really tried to think it through. First, no absolutes. There are circumstances where calling the authorities or intervening is clearly the right thing, even though it's a case of hurting only themselves. What if someone is about to jump off a bridge onto rocks? Do you just walk on by? Well, maybe some of you would, but then you probably stopped reading this discussion long ago. So most of us are on the slippery slope here. The factor that convinces me to act in this case is that she was paddling through heavy breakers with an open cockpit -- no sprayskirt. Except for that, there was some ambiguity whether she was brave-stupid or just plain stupid -- she had on a PFD and some semblance of proper paddling clothing, so maybe she was not totally clueless. Maybe she really could handle it, no matter how uncomfortable it seemed. But an open cockpit in breakers is (a) a definite sign of cluelessness; ( a major risk factor that increased her chances of death by 5-10x, like from maybe 1-5% to 5-50%. If she's in the breakers with an open cockpit, she's very likely to take on significant water, and that will make everything harder to manage. Add cold water, distance offshore and inadequate clothing, no matter how stylish, and I think it's over the edge into just plain stupid and an unacceptable level of risk. As Cathy noted, she was actually real lucky to survive. So, IMHO it was a judgment call whether to intervene more aggressively, and -- again in retrospect -- I vote for intervention in this case. Change some of the parameters -- give her a sprayskirt and/or a more seaworthy boat -- maybe not. Add some others -- blue jeans or no PFD -- and it's even firmer for intervention. My $000.0000002, plus or minus, of course. --David. PS -- I like grant's approach -- sums the parameters up nicely. But what if, after that attempt, they still rebuff you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great_blue Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 >Nowadays i sometimes see the same people when I'm launching >and they leave me be. Yeah.....that's only due to your recent decision to wear your sprayskirt in traditional Scottish style..... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 >Yeah.....that's only due to your recent decision to wear >your sprayskirt in traditional Scottish style..... > Hmmmm. That puts why some prefer/need a keyhole sprayskirt in a whole different perspective doesn't it? Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted March 29, 2007 Share Posted March 29, 2007 >Yeah.....that's only due to your recent decision to wear >your sprayskirt in traditional Scottish style..... > >Jon You'd be surprised... that actually seems to attract a lot of attention for Brad... well, at least when he forgets to wear the dry suit underneath. Just the other day someone said he looked familiar and asked him if he was the guy with the big snake that walks around during the summer (true story). Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traction Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I actually do have a rather large snake,I sometimes take her out in the summer for a walk along the beach, her name is Bunny Hugger. She attracts quite a bit of attention, not always positive. A few people have actually turned and ran away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Yeah, he brought that big snake into NESC. True story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 >I actually do have a rather large snake,I sometimes take her >out in the summer for a walk along the beach, her name is >Bunny Hugger. >She attracts quite a bit of attention, not always positive. >A few people have actually turned and ran away! G! G! Where are you when we need you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsprag1 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 you did all that could be expected---you were more than polite in tolerating her rudness---you could have suggested that she put in for the Darwin Award in the sea kayaking catagory and then just walked away. For what its worth almost the same thing happened to me and a friend last April---came back to Hadely Point Beach on MDI after a windy paddle--(approx 25 knots) found a college age couple putting out in two home made recreational type boats, with just PFDs--no paddle clothing either wetsuits or dry suits, no spare paddles , flotation in the boats and not much experience---we told them it was too windy to be out there but they politly insisted that they would be ok. As soon as they launched it was apparent that was not so---the woman kept paddling in circles and her boyfriend couldn't help her--eventually they managed to round the point and escape the wind---we didn't wait around for them and since I read of no mishaps in the paper I assumed they survived---all you can do is warn--can't stop them--they are adults and have the right to make choices, even really really bad ones-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyfoley Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 That would be me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traction Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Actually Kevin, you must have come in the day i got her. Bill Reagan brought her into NESC and gave her to me. Well actually I had to go out to his truck and get her and when I opened the door I found myself face to face with a 100LB crock basking on the front seat. Would have been nice if I had been warned about that little detail! I Nearly peed myself. The snake was in a sack nearby, i actually had to reach over the crock to get it, figured it was well fed... And it was just a baby anyway... Two weeks later Bill brought in a box of about 30 frozen rats,Yum. Those rats have long since been consumed. She has grown alot since then, nearly 10' now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob budd Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I believe the man is Welsh, often having funny spelling of long names that are pronounced "Smith" or something otherwise phonetically orthogonal to their spelling. The nationality of the snake is perhaps unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scamlin Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 Thought you might be interested in the thoughts of Chris Cunningham, editor of Sea Kayaker Magazine, who faced a similar situation: http://www.seakayakermag.com/2007/07e-news...pril/meddle.htm Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathyfoley Posted April 6, 2007 Author Share Posted April 6, 2007 Thanks Scott...very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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