shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I frequently see mentions of 4 and 5 star training and assessments but very little mention of anything lower. I'm assuming one has to start with one star and progress from there? In my various searches around the net I seem to have found a lot of wishy washy information on what the requirements for various stars rankings are. Aside from my current disorganized "show me everything you know" approach I'm thinking it might be nice to have a plan and some actual goals to achieve. I'm assuming that working up the star system might provide some of this structure. Any thoughts? Can anyone point me to a link denoting the various requirements of each level and even better... where one would go in the area to seek such official training and assessment?Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 The documentation can be found at: http://www.bcuna.com/Pages/Main-Pages/Literature.shtml Most people start with the 3*. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 >The documentation can be found at: >http://www.bcuna.com/Pages/Main-Pages/Literature.shtml > >Most people start with the 3*. Actually, many do start at 2-star, but we don't hear a lot about them around here. The competitive pressures in NSPN, especially on the public message board generally discourage anyone from admitting that out loud. Or, they start at the 2-star level and progress to 3-star, but don't bother the the actual 2-star award. 1-star,however, is "an encouragement award." I haven't heard of anyone in the US actually starting there. This may be because folks at that level in the US have never even heard of the BCU ;-))) --David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Hi Joe,I cheerfully admit that I did 2*, 3*, and 4* in succession.I'll be glad to explain the differences next time we meet.Cheers, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks all. From Gillian's trip report it looks like John Carmody (did I spell that correctly) is one of the local resources for training/assessment. Anyone else?Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks for the links Jason. Looks like the further on up you go, the steeper the learning curve gets.Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 It's going to change next year anyway. There will be a 3-star sea award; it's been generic to all kayaking until now. 4-star sea will acquire some leadership components to help close the big gap between 4-star and 5-star. But to answer Joe's question, yes, the BCU is the most popular structured progression of personal performance awards in kayaking, even in the US. The ACA has recently come out with an equivalent scheme, but it's not in very wide use yet. Here's a bit more of an explanation of the BCU star system... http://atlantickayaktours.com/pages/instru...ification.shtml --David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Interesting question....I often wonder for trips around here.. at what level trip is the ability to roll required ?When in Quebec, where for the most part you can't rent a kayak with out being on a guided trip, it seemed a roll was expected on any thing above a level 1. Though in reality I don't know how that works out for the tourist dollar. I think there is a big "vague factor" when it's time to head out. I know we were in some rough stuff from the very first time we rented. Any way that is one reason I learned to roll and also the prime reason we bought our own boats.Yet, on either side of the border, I have never been on the water and have someone pull up and say... "Alright buddy where's your certificate proving your allowed on this section of coast"So what's that all about?? A formal but, non enforceable (by gov't) rating system ?? thanks ..spdr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccarlson Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Joe... there are many coaches and outfitters in our area that offer BCU training and assessment. John Carmody is a great resource as are the others at www.seacliffkayakers.com Maine Island Kayak on Peaks island www.maineislandkayak.com Jed Luby (in NH) at www.teamnorthatlantic.com Mark and Mel at www.carpediemkayaking.com also in RI www.kayakcentre.com This is surely only a partial list and others can probably contribute others. Of course, each coach or instructor has a personal teaching style and perspective which makes it fun and productive to get exposure to a few different folks. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlewis Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Atlantic Kayak Tours is very big on BCU. In fact, Bill Lozano is the BCU North American Administrator and maintains the above mentioned BCUNA web site. They're based in and around NYC, but also do stuff in RI. http://atlantickayaktours.com/ Also, don't forget Osprey in Westport, MA. Though a bit more oriented to the ACA, they offer and sponsor some BCU stuff... http://www.ospreyseakayak.com/ And even good old Charles River Canoe and Kayak is getting somewhat into the BCU act... http://www.paddleboston.com/paddle_school/bcu.php (whoops, looks like they didn't do much this year -- also more ACA). --David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEL Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 >Actually, many do start at 2-star, but we don't hear a lot >about them around here. The competitive pressures in NSPN, >especially on the public message board generally discourage >anyone from admitting that out loud. "but the original philosphy of paddling together, learning together and enthusiastically sharing with newcomers has been kept as the bedrock of the club."May I humbly suggest something seems amiss.FWIW Joe, the majority of folks you are likely to meet while paddling on NSPN trips really could care less about whether or not you have elected to pursue certification or, if so, what your level of certification happens to be. I'm not saying they will not care about your abilities as a paddler because they will be concerned for everyone's safety and enjoyment and growth, but that is another question and it is answered once your paddle is wet.Ed Lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Stars are meaningless without the skills to back them up. I've paddled with starred and non starred paddlers, and I've come to learn to never judge someone's skills until you see them in action. Of course this doesn't mean you shouldn't follow the star route, afterall I like the BCU program and plan to follow it; however, I'm not doing it so that I can tell people I'm a starred paddler. I'm doing it becuase I realized that our pay-it-forward system has limits, that professional instructors often are better at diagnosing paddling issues since they spend so much time doing so. In other words, I felt that I had reached a point where I needed to seek professional instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 >FWIW Joe, the majority of folks you are likely to meet while >paddling on NSPN trips really could care less about whether >or not you have elected to pursue certification...I'm really not so concerned with the rating as I am with having specific goals. I'm disorganized by nature so sometimes formal structure with specific goals can be a good thing for me (even though I will probably never admit that if you ask me so ummm... you didn't read this :-). I'm also fairly driven at this point to progress as fast as possible. I like challenges but I also like to be safe and it appears as if the BCU star system has a strong component of safety involved (which is not just limited to rescues but also encourages learning knowledge that will prevent you from needing to be rescued, as well as enforcing preparedness for emergencies).Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick stoehrer Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 good morning - from personal experience, once i found the structure and progression of skills/experiences within the bcu, that whole pile of energy and interest i had in kayaking was kinda focused and set in motion. mostly for me, it was seeing folks doing things in boats that i wouldn't have thought humanly possible...and of course i then NEEDED to do those things! so i ended up following the same path to those skills as they did - the BCU. i believe that there is a link to the bcuna website below - that will list all the personal skills star tests and the individual curriculae.it starts with strokes and edging and then moves onto a panopoly of other related topics and after awhile all of those strokes and the edging and all those boaty things that you work so hard on in the beginning just kinda float away and just happen in the background while you try to absord the new lessons and the rest of the stuff that's going on around you. it never, never ends. besides which, once you get comfortable enough to just start tossing it around in surf and current and all kinds of things that you can't even imagine when you first start? no really...it's bliss.tom up in maine is really outstanding - one of the more insightful folks i've met but you need to arrange a group really.john c is a fine instructor as well and after taking a class with him, my wife said he was very "soothing"...so i now try to keep those 2 in different states! really, he is a very nice man and has a great way with people.jed is in nh and is busy as hell on the coaching circuit. he is very, very precise in his instruction and his observation and his critique is just as exacting....depending on where you are, i might think that he would be the go to outta the 3 just based on proximity and the level of instruction that you may be looking for at this point if you are talking about honing 3*skills.the bcu isn't the only way...there's the aca or there's nothing at all and picking up as you go but if you are looking for a structured progression of steps that have been examined, refined and applied for decades, then i would recommend the bcu courses as a way to grow and expand your paddling. so far, they've worked for me.whatever you do, have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Rick,Well said. I can also second Rick's characterization of Tom, John and Jed. I've not had a chance to take a class from Tom, but he is a great guy and I've trained with John and Jed. Both have different techniques as Rick indicated, but they both know their stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin B (RPS Coach) Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 >> I'm also >fairly driven at this point to progress as fast as possible. >>Why?FYI, passing through the star system should coincide with gaining experience in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 To add... I also want to make sure that I'm learning to do things the RIGHT way so that I don't develop bad habbits. I've been on the teaching side of breaking others of bad habbits as well as on the receiving side and that experience has taught me that it's best to stop bad habbits before they start because once you have them, they're a royal PITA to break.Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Hall Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I don't know of any club or outfitter in this area, that requires a roll for recreational sea kayaking trips.Whitewater, however, is a different matter.-Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 The BCU mode is; training - practice - assessment as a continuum. Often an oval illustration is used. If one is thinking of the Star system then it could be a spiral upwardly repeateding 'training, practice, assessment.'Sometimes 2* & 3* training is combined over a period of days. Many start at 3* for assessment. This has been, in part, because paddlers often were not aware of the BCU system until after they had an amount of training. There does seem to be a trend to 2* training and assessment in order to catch and train paddlers earlier in their development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shewhorn Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 I typed out a long response to this and it just kept getting longer and longer and longer... I'll explain the next time I see ya on the water but the short short short version is that...1) It's not about getting a rating, it's about challenging myself. Assuming I'm taking lessons, frequently practicing what I've learned, and getting out as much as possible the experience will come in time.2) I have become instantly hooked on this sport. I had NO CLUE that I'd become this addicted but there's just so much about it that gels with what I like in a sport. I guess it's like a cross between skiing and cycling (my two major passions) as kayking involves a fair deal of building up endurance (cycling) as well as lots of skills to practice (skiing), with a variety of terrain (skiing and cycling).Cheers, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilsoj2 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 >Interesting question....I often wonder for trips around >here.. at what level trip is the ability to roll required ? >Most outings I've been on a wet exit is required. Most paddlers I paddle with have a roll. The ww 'roll or die' dictum is rarely enforced in my expereince for sea kayakers. Besides being able to demonstrate a roll may have little relationship to actually rolling in conditions.>>So what's that all about?? A formal but, non enforceable >(by gov't) rating system ?? >thanks ..spdr The BCU system links skills. Each star level notes that a paddler at said level should be able to safely... e.g paddle as part of a group on flat water, paddle as part of a group in lumpy water, lead a group in conditions, etc...It is an elective system and only in force by the choice of outfitters, coaches, leaders or groups. I have often seen outings or classes list prerequisite of a certain BCU star cert or equivalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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