dry suits

[tommmyc]

i am thinking about buying a dry suit but i don't even know if i need one. i am basically a slow river or lake paddler. i do have a yearning to try the ocean this year though.

thank you

tom

[Brian Nystrom]

The water temps locally are cold enough to require dry suits from October through June many years. I've needed my drysuit in July in Maine a few times.

Spring is arguably the most dangerous time of the year, as warm air temps lure people into underdressing when water temps are barely above their winter levels, which can incapacitate an inadequately protected swimmer in a few minutes. While some protected waters may get into the 70's by mid-late summer, many areas never get out of the 50's. Lakes can see even wider variation, depending on size and depth. Some slow, wide rivers get quite warm, while other smaller, faster ones stay pretty cold all year. Ours is not an easy environment to dress for.

For anyone who plans to paddle other than in summer and early-fall when water temps are highest, a dry suit is a very good investment and pretty much a necessity.

[cathyfoley]

Tommy,

A drysuit is a great investment even if you only paddle lakes and rivers. The water in rivers and lakes can be dangerously cold up through May, and after September . It really extends your paddle year and even better, may save your life, especially if you paddle alone.

[tommmyc]

thanks for the advice. any ideas on which one would be great. i will be going out about twice a week on the lower charles river soon. i also have a 2 minute drive to the waltham put in so i will make use of that too. i am also thinking about upgrading to a tempest 170. i am large framed so i think that will be a good fit for a beginner. thank you in advance

tom

[Brian Nystrom]

Get a breathable suit with a relief zip and booties. It will cost you more up front, but you'll be glad you spent the extra money in the long run.

[jonsprag1]

If you paddle early spring and late fall then a dry suit is a really good investment. If you paddle in the winter then it's a necessity. Traditionally kokitat makes the best most expensive dry suits--600+dollars and the relief zipper and booties are optional--meaning you have to pay extra for them. A company has just introduced a simmilar style breathable dry suit(like kotitat) with a more comfortable neck gasket and standard boots. Also the regular zipper is long enough so males can go without having a separate zipper for that purpose. The really good news is the purchase price is 500 dollars. I saw one at Maine Sport in Rockport two weeks ago and was impressed. Unfortunatly I can't remember the brand name but if you look in this months Sea Kayaker Magazine, there is an ad for it. Called the Cpod or something like that. Has anybody else heard of it and/or had any experience with it? Regarding the Tempest 170, I purchased one two seasons ago and have been very happy with it.

[JohnHuth]

For drysuits. The air temp warms up, but the water temp is still waaay down there. You end up sweating like a pig in the drysuit, but what choice do you have? Bring lots of water!

[tommmyc]

thanks for the help. i will look it up. i have a thing about something tight like the latex gaskets they use on the neck. always makes me wonder who invented the necktie and why men have been trying to choke themselves with them all these years

tom

[scamlin]

John:

I never sweat like a pig in my drysuit. In fact, I often put my regular clothes over the long johns and tops after a paddle. I sweat a lot more in a wetsuit which is why I wear my drysuit into June and starting in September: it's just more comfortable.

Brian mentioned the key: get a breathable drysuit. GoreTex is most breathable but most expensive. There are other brands out that do a good job with other coatings.

As for the latex neck seals: if it's choking you, it's too tight and you can do something about it. The trim vs. stretch wars are played out on this message board every year or two, but I can tell you that a simple but careful trim will immediately make a drysuit comfortable. Don't settle for less. Just plan on replacing your seals every 2-4 seasons, depending on use.

Scott

[djlewis]

>...A company has just introduced a simmilar style

>breathable dry suit(like kotitat) with a more comfortable

>neck gasket and standard boots. The really good news is the purchase price is 500 dollars.

Be careful of bargains in new manufacturers in the dry suit business, even when the specs seem good. A couple of years ago, the rage was RavenSpring, a Brit outfit working by mail order, with a cost about 1/3 less than Kokotat, and custom fitted you to boot. There was even a group buy at NSPN. I had just bought my Kokotat, and boy was I jealous.

Well, from what I've heard, many people are not all that happy with them. In fact, the group buy organizer sold his and got a Kokotat. The RavenSprings turned out to have one less layer of fabric than the Kokotats and did not wear well. I guess the custom fit was nice, however.

So, bear in mind that, despite the extra money, Kokotat is a proven brand, really the standard for sea kayaking. Mine's been flawless, though I did have to replace the gaskets in its third year (probably my fault for not keeping them out of the light and heat in the off season). Kokotat is really good about repairing defects, though not always that fast to turn them around, depending on the season (fall is obviously the busiest).

In dry suits, you probably get what you pay for... unless you can find one that fits you off the rack, in the clearance sale season, i.e. now.

--David.

[birdseye]

>A company has just introduced a simmilar style

>breathable dry suit(like kotitat) with a more comfortable

>neck gasket and standard boots. Also the regular zipper is

>long enough so males can go without having a separate zipper

>for that purpose. The really good news is the purchase price

>is 500 dollars.

>Called the Cpod or something like that. Has anybody else heard of it >and/or had any experience with it? Regarding the Tempest 170, I

>purchased one two seasons ago and have been very happy with it.

It's the "b Pod"(for body Pod) and is made by Stohlquist, a reputable name. It uses a 3 layer waterproof/breathable fabric.

[JohnHuth]

I'm open to any suggestions.

Part of my problem is that I have a high metabolism rate. I have a Goretex Kokatat (sp?) and the gaskets aren't so bad - maybe it's the layer of polartek underneath I put on. I try the immersion test, and I find that a layer of polartek works well, but if I paddle on a hot day in April, I sweat a lot. I don't know of a way to ensure you'll stay warm in the water in April, and not sweat a bunch on a warm day in the air.

[Dee Hall]

When it's that warm, I'm usually down to a mid or heavyweight first layer bottoms and a Powerstretch top. Anything else would result in far too much sweating. Fleece would definitly be overdoing it. You can be in the water for a while, but you would warm up quickly when you get out.

Sculling and rolling are great ways to cool off as is dunking your hat in the water.

I have not found that Goretex is more breathable than all of the other brands. The Ravensprings are remarkably breathable. My Immersion Research Drytop is also fabulously breathable with a really nice hand. The Ravenspring has a typical nylon texture so it's kind of noisy.

[jason]

How much air do you still have trapped in your dry suit?

I find that if I waid into the water and pull a gasket that's above the water it will remove most of the air. When I am vacumed packed in this way I feel like I stay cooler in my dry suit.

-Jason

[ccarlson]

John, I often experience the same overheating/freezing cycle in most winter sports. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a real solution. With the dry suit,I try to wear the least amount of insulation that will be safe if immersed in the water (assuming water colder than air). This is trial and error usually though, after a while, you begin to know what works for you. On a really warm air day, I try not to overexert in order to prevent too much overheating and, as Dee points out, rolling,sculling, or dipping can help. Once you're wet underneath, any reduction in exertion level or a rest/lunch stop can result in becoming too cold. I always have extra outer layers for these times as well as extra dry inner layers so I can change into them at lunch if necessary. Of course, with cold water, everyone should have such a hypo kit on board at all times. Good luck and hope to see ya on the water!

[Brian Nystrom]

You should NOT settle for a seal that chokes you. Trim it to fit. It's easy and it takes only a few minutes to make your suit perfectly comfortable.

The neoprene seals that are becoming increasing popular are great IF - and it's a big IF - they fit you. Unlike latex, they are not meant to be trimmed to fit. Either they fit you or they don't. If you're lucky and they fit you, you'll probably love them. If not, you'll need to go with latex and trim it to fit.

[jonsprag1]

A kokatat suit is definitly the Rolls Royce of dry suits---but they can cost---the basic model is around 650$ w /o boots(a necessity in my opinion) and a relief zipper(another necessity) adding those two items on puts the price close to 800$. Its kind of like a kevlar boat, nice if you can afford it. My question is will other models do the same thing---keep you dry in the water and comfortable with breathable fabric out of it---for a more reasonable price. My understanding is that Stohlquist is a reputable brand but the suit has just been introduced---has anybody out there had any experience themselves or talked to someone who has? I'm seriously considering buying one(tired either of waiting for warmer weather or paddling timidly with wet suit and paddle jacket 10 yards from shore in 2 feet of water in March and April.) PS-- Brian--where in Maine did you have to wear a drysuit in July?

[Dee Hall]

Those gaskets don't have to be tight at all. My drysuit came with a gasket that was actually quite large, probably too large. It pops over my head with ease, and when I got it, it was incredible comfortable on my neck without trimming. It was also perfectly waterproof no matter what I did in the water including thrashing around in a most undignified way during trip leader training (as an instructor pretending to be scared of drowning.)

Then I lost 20 lbs. It started leaking slightly during some manuevers. However, there is a gap now that I can put two fingers into.

The gasket doesn't need to be very tight because the pressure of the water is going to press it against your neck. There shouldn't be a gap however.

-Dee

[Webadmin]

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[Michael_Crouse]

Some people prefer the Stohlquist suits because of thier sizing, they have sizes like "large medium" for tall skinny people, Kokatat apparently does not.

I haven't heard of any durability issues with the Stohlquist. A few people who bought Ravensprings had some delamination problems, but Ravenspring fixed the problem (they gave them new drysuits). The Palm suits are another option, but get the one with the better zipper, I've heard of some problems with the cheaper plastic zipper.

If the price is scaring you off be on the look out for sales and discounts. REI currently is doing thier 20% off one item spring sale. I also recall someone buying a NOS (new old stock) drysuit that needed a new neck gasket from New England Small Craft at an incredibly low price.

[Dee Hall]

>A kokatat suit is definitly the Rolls Royce of dry

>suits---but they can cost---the basic model is around 650$ w

>/o boots(a necessity in my opinion) and a relief

>zipper(another necessity) adding those two items on puts the

>price close to 800$. Its kind of like a kevlar boat, nice

>if you can afford it. My question is will other models do

>the same thing---keep you dry in the water and comfortable

>with breathable fabric out of it---for a more reasonable

>price.

The three-layer laminate Gore-tex in the Kokatat suits is definitely durable. The problems that some have had with the Ravensprings are that they are a 2-layer laminate, so the inside is more fragile. One has to be careful what one wears inside, and if one is an extremely agressive paddler (like a racer), it might not be an appropriate suit.

My husband and I have had ours for three years, and I patched a few very small wear points (they give you some tape) a couple of months ago for the first time. Only one was leaking and it was due to something pointed I was keeping in a pocket at my waist. I did train for two races wearing that suit a couple of years ago, and it is very breathable.

This suit, with latex socks and a relief zipper costs 360 pounds. At todays exchange rate, that is $630. It WILL keep you dry and comfortable, and if you take care of it, it should last you years. If it doesn't, they will replace it free of charge.

By the way, the person that organized the group buy three years ago did not sell her suit because she had problems with it. She sold it because she lost a whole lot of weight and needed a properly sized suit. By that time, the dollar had fallen against the pound (and everything else.)

>PS-- Brian--where in Maine did you have to wear a drysuit in July?

Many of us find our drysuits to be much more comfortable and convenient than our wetsuits in cool weather and water. On multi-day trips, they aren't wet the next day, and they stink a lot less (so do we.)

-Dee

[jonsprag1]

Nothing feels so good as taking off my wetsuit at the end of a paddle on a hot--even mildly warm day---they need to make one that absorbs the perspiration. Come to think of it, nothing feels quite as clammy as putting it on the next morning when the weather was damp the night before.

[PeterB]

Yes, the new drysuit in question is the Stohlquist bodypod, and Stohlquist is a not a new manufacturer in the drysuit business; I think that they have actually been around longer than Kokatat, and are equal in quality if not market share.

I have a Stohlquist drytop with the new neoprene neck gasket, and I really like it. I'm pretty sure that this has the same gasket , fabric etc as the new bodypod drysuit. The gasket is very comfortable and watertight for me, the fabric is breatheable, and in general the whole top is watertight (I wear it with wetsuit pants, and in maybe four or five wet exits my torso has remained dry. ) so, assuming that these qualities extend to the drysuit, it would be a product worth looking into.( I had bought a Kokatat drysuit at a great off-season price,like it very much, otherwise would be very interested in the bodypod) Check to see if the gasket feels comfortable, and also make sure that the front zipper really does work as a relief zipper. (some are skeptical) If so, one less zipper to fail, or otherwise deal with.

Re: the original inquiry: If you feel confident that you will be into kayaking for a long time, and its not something youre just trying out, then a drysuit is well worth the money. In addition to the obvious safety benefit , you will be freer to paddle with confidence in months other than July through September, and freer to expand the range of skillls on the water. Before I was adequately suited up, I paddled pretty conservatively, which naturally limited my ability to expand paddling skills and experiences.

[djlewis]

>By the way, the person that organized the group buy three

>years ago did not sell her suit because she had problems

>with it. She sold it because she lost a whole lot of weight

>and needed a properly sized suit.

Gee, I thought another reason was to get a mean-looking ~black~ suit from Kokotat. (Anybody wanna buy a wimpy blue one?)

;-))))) --David

[tommmyc]

i want to thank all everybody for there thoughts on the dry suit. i will look at a few and go from there. i want to try a variety of suits and hopefully pick the right one the first time.

once again thank you

tom