josko Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 After lengthy paddles, I'm getting stiffness in my glutes and lower back area. The body just doesn't want to fully straighten out after getting out of the boat. A few minutes' walk is usually enough for it to go away , but I'm wondering if anyone else is experiencing this and what a good fix is. I'm wondering if it's something about my seat or maybe stance. or maybe I'm just paddling longer trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Or maybe your not getting any younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLConaway Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) I've had this before, and it's worse if I'm inactive during the week. As I gain in years, I'm learning I need to stretch and exercise in some manner everyday. Also sounds like some core and back strengthening might help. Edited July 28, 2016 by BLConaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martinsen Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 One of those good foam rollers works great for taking care of the back and glutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejwilliams Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Even with too much inactivity and not getting any younger, I have found that small adjustments with outfitting can make a big difference for me. In my whitewater kayaks, slight adjustments with hip pads, backband, height of front of seat, thigh braces, and footpegs or bulkhead make the difference between being stiff and sore, struggling to even get out of my boat, to being comfortable all day. Lots of paddlers can jump in any boat and they are fine, but I need my boats to fit me well. Bob put small minicell foam blocks in his Caribou positioned under his upper calves and found this prevents lower back pain for him. Looks weird and not sure why it works, but it really helps him. Before he taped them down, he had them loose in his boat and tried different positions, and adjusting the shape and size to see what worked best, then taped them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted August 1, 2016 Author Share Posted August 1, 2016 BIngo - that's what i'm trying to sort out myself. I recently moved from a P&H 'carbon poerformance seat' to an NDK standard seat. Had no back 'n glutes trouble with the former, and now need to find out where there are any adjustments I can make. Specifically, what kind of adjustments can I make to help reduce my glutes/back pain? Any ideas on what I should be lookign for as I adjust my seat/padding/stance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverseyourself Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Try stretching your posterior thigh muscles. Sit flat on the ground, one knee bent with the sole of that leg's foot touching the medial knee of the straight leg, then bend forward and try touching the toes of the straight leg. Stay in that posture for 30-60 seconds. The bent leg is friendlier to your lower back than having both legs straight during this exercise. The posterior thigh muscles are too short in most people. Also, unfortunately, with age the glutes atrophy and there is less flesh to sit on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) On a related note, would anyone point to a link on how to 'foam out' the boat and/or select the seat? I've never really understood what I'm trying to achieve with padding, etc. especially now that I'm focused on rotation and good leg work. Does it even make sense to think of torso rotation/leg motion and 'foaming out' the cockpit at the same time? Edited August 5, 2016 by josko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 1 hour ago, josko said: On a related note, would anyone point to a link on how to 'foam out' the boat and/or select the seat? I've never really understood what I'm trying to achieve with padding, etc. especially now that I'm focused on rotation and good leg work. Does it even make sense to think of torso rotation/leg motion and 'foaming out' the cockpit at the same time? Just be careful about adding too much foam, it prevents rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejwilliams Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 This seems like a good article: http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/how-to-adjust-a-sea-kayak/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) As I read that article, the question that comes to mind is: should legs be in full contact with the boat, or allowed to move with respect to the hull(to help out rotation)? Edited August 10, 2016 by josko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Allen Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, josko said: As I read that article, the question that comes to mind is: should legs be in full contact with the boat, or allowed to move with respect to the hull(to help out rotation)? So many opinions on this issue. Personally, I like room to move my legs into contact with the boat, but also room to relax them. A lot of the go-fast folks like enough room to emulate the surf-ski position knees center even in a trad. sea kayak. Folks who've crossed over from WW seem to like the locked in by foam to give max contact. best Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 5 hours ago, Phil Allen said: So many opinions on this issue. Personally, I like room to move my legs into contact with the boat, but also room to relax them. A lot of the go-fast folks like enough room to emulate the surf-ski position knees center even in a trad. sea kayak. Folks who've crossed over from WW seem to like the locked in by foam to give max contact. best Phil Even in white water people are moving away from being locked into the boat to where they can't rotate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethS Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 For what it's worth I've had chronic low back issues most of my life, and I have found that I do a lot better and am less stiff if I have as little foam padding as possible so I can still move my legs around, and i like to keep my knees fairly close to center. As long as my torso can rotate kayaking seems to help my back and hips. I still do get stiff though, and i do a lot of stretching, foam roller, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) With apologies for some thread drift... I'm also having issues with my feet cramping. The little and big toe overhang the footpegs, and I'm having foot cramping issues after using the pegs aggressively for a couple hours. My foot is wrapping around the peg at each push, and starts to complain after a while. I've switched from NRS booties to Astral Brewers, which have a stiffer sole, and the problem got better, but is still not completely gone. It really only happens during exercise paddles, when I use the pegs harder than during group paddles. Boat's an Explorer with stock NDK pegs. Edited September 6, 2016 by josko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 7 hours ago, josko said: With apologies for some thread drift... I'm also having issues with my feet cramping. The little and big toe overhang the footpegs, and I'm having foot cramping issues after using the pegs aggressively for a couple hours. My foot is wrapping around the peg at each push, and starts to complain after a while. I've switched from NRS booties to Astral Brewers, which have a stiffer sole, and the problem got better, but is still not completely gone. It really only happens during exercise paddles, when I use the pegs harder than during group paddles. Boat's an Explorer with stock NDK pegs. It sounds like it's time to get rid of the foot pegs and foam out the bulkhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Before I give up on all that cargo space... are there NDK'compatible footpegs and/or stiff-soled shoes that might help? My next boat's already got full-length footrests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Sylvester Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Do your heels lightly touch while paddling? Would raising you heels give a better foot position? My two cents: I like my heels to lay together, feet angled slightly forward and set the peg height for maximum push with the best body mechanics. In my Explorer the size 12's just land perfect. I have no use for foaming out bulkheads. I always switch out my seats. I make custom foam seats a bit longer which give more support where needed. Yes they might be a little sticky but I can usually stay in the boat a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 3 hours ago, josko said: Before I give up on all that cargo space... are there NDK'compatible footpegs and/or stiff-soled shoes that might help? My next boat's already got full-length footrests. I had to give up 1.5" on my current boat. Carl moved Julie's front bulkhead back about a foot and make for a lot more usable dry space in her boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martinsen Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Maybe you could fabricate a plate to tie into the existing track, or sit on top of the foot pegs, throw some foam on it and you're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdrayer Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 @josko -- re: glutes/thighs, I discovered a couple years ago that my own lower back and upper leg pain was due to weak muscles. This was effectively cured with a surprisingly small amount of squats, deadlifts, step-ups, and lunges plus some rowing erg sessions during the off-season. I didn't have to become a power lifter or anything, I just needed to fix some imbalances and strengthen some weak areas. I've kept it up and haven't had to deal with back pain since. Re: foot cramps -- have you considered attaching a horizontal foot plate to your pegs so you can slide your feet in/out a bit and still be able to apply force. I agree with @jason that it's better to create a full-foot surface but I found a footplate made a big difference over the pegs. You can experiment easily+cheaply by attaching a ~4" strip of thick plywood with some duct tape wrapped around the board+pegs on each side -- no drilling/screws required. It needs to be stiff to efficiently transfer force, which is why the Onno carbon fiber footplate is a good one. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 Thanks folks - I'll go mess with it and post back what worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josko Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 I just remembered that I have two peg positions; long for 'club paddles' and rough water, where I want my legs pretty much on the hull, and a shorter peg position for exercise paddles, where I really put the legs to work. Is there a way to foam out and still leave this kind of adjustability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdrayer Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 If you are going with foam on the bulkhead think of it like a layer cake, each layer being just the right thickness for your two settings. You can attach the first layer to the bulkhead with adhesive (permanent) or Velcro (temporary) and use Velcro again for attaching the second layer to the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu feldman Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 How tall are you? I need more leg height but thin body does not allow me to go to a high volume boat. I did not glue any foam into the boat instead I have pieces that I can place into the boat, thus allowing me more movement/brace options. I agree with everything others have mentioned. I will add someone who can give deep tissue massage has helped me in the past. also are you leaning too hard against the back band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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