Drysuit preference

[prudenceb]

Does anyone who has tried both have anything to say about preference for kokotat meridien vs expedition drysuit? The latter has a hood. Does this feature end up being an annoyance - does it get in the way when, as is most often the case, one isn't using it? I like that it has pockets on the sleeves, which meridien doesn't..

Any thoughts appreciated.

pru

[Phil Allen]

Hi Pru-

I had the meridian and upgraded to the expedition on a delimitation replacement (for a fee). IMO the hood isn't annoying and is definitely beneficial on the occasional showers kind of day. It doesn't scoop water when left loose and can be nicely stowed to a neck warmer like collar. The only issue I have with it is that the entrance is somewhat small for my overly large melon. Most won't have that problem.

best

Phil

[Suz]

Agreed with all that Phil says...

I will add that the additional difference between the two suits you mentioned is the difference in the cuff. The cuff on the Meridian is a neoprene punch through. The cuff on the expedition is a cuff with a velcro closure. My preference is for the cuff w/ closure.

Another option is to do what John Carmody does... He doesn't like hoods and has ordered in the past the expedition suit with the Meridian neck closure.

Go out and play around on the Gizmo on Kokatat's site to configure it however you would like. You can see pricing that way.

Suz

[PeterB]

I have the Meridian and am very happy with it. If I win at the Goretex warranty delamination game again I'll just get another Meridian , not upgrade to the Expedition . I think the Meridian is essentially the Expedition minus a few belles and whistles like extra pockets and the hood. I feel I already have adequate headware and don' t feel the need for a hood, but could see how it and the pockets could be handy.

[Deb Millar]

I agree with PeterB totally. I've always had a Meridian, complete with rear relief zipper and feet, and I've been happy with it. While the extra pockets would be nice and I realize I could get the dry suit without the hood -- personally, I'm not a fan -- I can't see paying more money for a basic piece of equipment that works for me in its present form. I've also always felt the extra piece in front that fits over a spray skirt is a Must Have.

The only thing I might consider should I hit the Eternal Dry Suit (delamination) Sweepstakes is paying to have have the front, ladies' whiz-zip put in. Even then, I'd think about it a bit before I had it done.

Deb M

[...]

Let me jump on the "Love My Meridian" bandwagon as well. I might add that I won the Eternal Dry Suit (delamination) Sweepstakes last month! Even though I liked my all red suit, for a small fee I was allowed to upgrade to a custom all black suit. Now how cool is that!

Warren

Edited June 4, 2014 by Warren

[jason]

Does anyone who has tried both have anything to say about preference for kokotat meridien vs expedition drysuit? The latter has a hood. Does this feature end up being an annoyance - does it get in the way when, as is most often the case, one isn't using it? I like that it has pockets on the sleeves, which meridien doesn't..

Any thoughts appreciated.

pru

My last one is a Carmody model which is ordered as an expedition without the hood. I have never had a hood but I just didn't like the idea of it for moving water.

The expedition without the hood is less expensive than adding the reflectors and the pockets to the Meridien. I don't often use the pockets, but I like the idea of the reflective tape.

[prudenceb]

Thanks to everyone. I may go the Jason/ John route. I do like those pockets!

pru

[Phil Allen]

Arm pockets for me. Can carry a quick snack, or a light weight surf hood there. I never found the chest pocket of the meridian useful in the same way.

best

Phil

[Gcosloy]

I'm a Stohlquist fan of the B-pod. It has a thick soft neoprene neck that is so comfortable and doesn't allow water into the suit. The cuffs are latex significantly heavier than Kokatat. They use their own breathable fabric not Goretex and in 5 seasons of use has never delaminated. The suit is also about half the price of Kokatat. Sizing runs a bit small so I have a large and the booties also run small so I needed to get x-large booties on a large suit for my 11-1/2 to 12 feet. No extra charge. Joel at NESC has them and sometimes has a sale on them as well.

[billvoss]

I strongly prefer neoprene punch through to Velcro closure at the hands and neck because otherwise I sometimes find the Velcro scrapes my skin.

I had arm pockets added to my GMER and use them. I have a chest pocket on my Meridian and never use it, because I can not access it while wearing my PFD.

I like the idea of reflective tape, but my PFD has reflective tape so it is not a big deal.

Sorry, I've never tried an integrated hood, nor an Expedition.

[Lallen]

I have the Expedition. Love both the hood and the arm pocket. Don't use the hood all that often, but when the weather is nasty, sure do appreciate it! It folds up easily and stays nice and compact when not in use, so I don't find it bothersome...

[scamlin]

Pru:

Being from the Crangle School of equipment (keep it simple), I've always worn a Kokotat GFER: no spray deck tunnel, no covering over zipper, no pockets, no hood. Less material, less to deal with, less to dry, less to go wrong, easier to get at things. Not sure the extra material adds any waterproofness: a spraydeck tunnel is already cinched up under the PFD; most of us are not rolliing constantly and even if a bit more water gets in the cockpit is not a big deal. The zipper is pretty bombproof so I've always considered the zipper covering more cosmetic than anything. I've not found dirt an issue with zippers: dryness and sticking is more the issue, which a bit of wax sorts out.

What I would and have paid extra for is a customer suit. For those who are not average sizea and proportion, there is nothing like a bespoke drysuit. Skinny tall people have a choice of binding or lots extra material flapping under the arms. I'm 6-2 and 170 lbs, so order a medium with 2" extra each in the arms, legs and torso. Fits like a glove: no extra material scrunching up under the vest or the arms, and all the extra length means no binding when you're sitting and twisting. A long-ago club member who was shorter with a low center of gravity ordered a customer suit with shorter legs and arms for the girth and was thrilled not to have all the extra material bunching around her ankles and arms. Worth every extra dollar.

And when you order custom, you can add all or none of the bells and whistles you want: pockets, reflecting stripes, hoods, size of gaskets, and lots of colors. You order direct from Kokotat so you probably won't get it on sale, but service is excellent and the seller knows the product. Lead time depends on the time of year (my new suit last fall was 5-6 weeks).

Scott

[Paul Sylvester]

I have had sleeve pockets added a couple times and use them. I did ask them to rotate the pockets forward a little for easy reach. My new Expedition suit has( factory) pockets in a good position and a fixed hood. I have not figured out how it stores compact yet and I do like the zipper covering. You can't go wrong with either.

[bob budd]

No hoods for this guy. Interferes with hearing and sight. Even though it doesn't pour (cold) water down your neck after you roll like you hat does with a wet suit its generally a nuisance. Wear a hat, something I've had to do for the last 10+ years anyway. As for other features I generally like to keep it simple and would ask/pay/wait for a suit sans hood if I liked its other features. I don't mind latex and would always prefer it for a gasket. Since it wasn't mentioned goretex or other breathable is superior to latex for (integral) socks.

[Inverseyourself]

Love the pockets and have used them from the get-go. Love the hood as well. No felt resistance while rolling. I suspect I'll get into winter camping and that hood takes the bite out of the wind right away (unless coming from front).

[Suz]

Scott - on ordering, you can't order 'directly' from Kokatat. Must go through a Kokatat retailer.

Paul - on stowing the hood, look between the inside of the hood and just below the gasket on the inside of the hood, you will find a loop of black material. This allows you to roll the hood down outside to inside and using the velcro bit on the back, you can secure the hood. It will now be rolled and secured and will be a bit like a loose "cowl neck". If you want that to lay flatter and closer to your neck, you can cinch up the hood material with the pulls both front and back.

The hood is made so that it is one hand deployable. Need two hands to stow it though.

The hood is made so that when it is on your head, you can secure it so that it won't impede your vision. It is made of pac light material so really doesn't restrict your hearing. Give it a try - put it on and then cinch the front pull so that it encircles your head. Then secure the back by pulling that popper so that the hood then pulls backwards keeping your peripheral vision open. For the tiniest of heads, you can also utilize the velcro on the back so that the 'visor' portion of the hood comes back a bit so that it doesn't cover over your face too much. Really well designed hood that goes away when not using it.

As for the velcro scratching hands, not sure how that can happen. The velcro is fully on the outside of the cuff - both the soft and rough side of the velcro. Even when not secured down, it isn't exposed.

[Doug]

I recently had my Kokatat GMER "custom" replaced due to de lamination and moved into an Expedition suit with no hood.

The Expedition comes with a hood but struggling with the decision finally decided on no hood with Hook and Loop Cuffs.

I'm sure the hood is great in the dead of winter or even occasional pre season or post season paddles but a simple balaclava and hat fills that gap for me. I don't like the idea of carrying the extra material around especially when reef surfing or rock play.

I will add that I've never used a dry suit with a hood and most people that have them say they are happy they went with them but I'm not convinced they haven't justified the choice after the fact because they now have to live with them.

It would be nice if Kokatat offered removable hoods. I would like that option.

Doug

[jason]

I have had the two and I really like the velcro wrist closures better. I have never had them scratch me or cause any issues.

[billvoss]

I strongly prefer neoprene punch through to Velcro closure at the hands and neck because otherwise I sometimes find the Velcro scrapes my skin.

I could have expressed that better and provided more detail.

As for the velcro scratching hands, not sure how that can happen. The velcro is fully on the outside of the cuff - both the soft and rough side of the velcro. Even when not secured down, it isn't exposed.

I currently own an ancient suit with Velcro (mostly retired for zipper issues), a modern minimalist GMER suit with Velcro, and my newest Meridian suit which has punch through. I alternate between the two new suits. If I was ordering a fully custom suit I would pay extra for punch through.

The neck gasket Velcro rubbing against my neck has been my primary issue with Velcro. Though if I wear a Buff or adjust the Velcro perfectly it is not a problem.

Unlike the neck, I don't think the wrist Velcro has ever gotten into a position where it chronically rubs against my skin during a paddle. I have occasionally brushed my water soaked skin against the rough side of wrist Velcro which is definitely not a big deal, though I don't find it comfortable.

Forgetting to undo neck, wrist, and/or ankle Velcro before trying to take off or put on a suit has sometimes been a minor annoyance.

By the way I like the tunnel overskirt for rolling, but when combined with my PFD the overskirt makes it difficult to impossible to access the inside of my boat without popping my skirt. With my GMER I can stick my pump down the skirt tunnel and pump out water without popping my skirt.

The zipper cover has just been a minor annoyance. I have not noticed a benefit in having it.

[Suz]

I could have expressed that better and provided more detail.

I currently own an ancient suit with Velcro (mostly retired for zipper issues), a modern minimalist GMER suit with Velcro, and my newest Meridian suit which has punch through. I alternate between the two new suits. If I was ordering a fully custom suit I would pay extra for punch through.

The neck gasket Velcro rubbing against my neck has been my primary issue with Velcro. Though if I wear a Buff or adjust the Velcro perfectly it is not a problem.

Unlike the neck, I don't think the wrist Velcro has ever gotten into a position where it chronically rubs against my skin during a paddle. I have occasionally brushed my water soaked skin against the rough side of wrist Velcro which is definitely not a big deal, though I don't find it comfortable.

Ah ha... the old neck style (8+ years ago on a GMER - before they went with the neo punch through on neck/ wrists) did have a slightly too small opening for the neck (in my opinion) and the velcro bothered some people. Never an issue for the wrists but was an issue on the neck. That was on both the old GFER and the old GMER. Both new necks have been redesigned.

[rfolster]

Cathy and I both have "newer" GFER suits (three years old?) and have had problems with the neck velcro giving us some pretty bad chaffing. It would be a serious consideration for me on a new suit.

[Suz]

Cathy and I both have "newer" GFER suits (three years old?) and have had problems with the neck velcro giving us some pretty bad chaffing. It would be a serious consideration for me on a new suit.

I hadn't heard of people saying that with the redesign. Is the velcro getting you or is it the 'sharp edge' of the tab?

Do you secure the velcro to itself in either of the two positions? Open neck or loose neck?

I will give feedback to the designers based on your response.

[billvoss]

a modern minimalist GMER suit with Velcro, and my newest Meridian suit which has punch through.

Correction, my "modern minimalist GMER GFER suit with Velcro."

I believe I've had the neck chafing with both my GFER purchased new December 2009, and my delamination lottery replacement suit acquired either two or three years later. It may actually be the "sharp edge" that was getting me. Though my memory has faded. It has been a few years since I've used a neck Velcro suit without either a Buff or a Hood protecting my neck.

My ancient suit acquired used with the vertical Velcro closure is much more comfortable. Comparable to the punch-through in comfort.

[rfolster]

I hadn't heard of people saying that with the redesign. Is the velcro getting you or is it the 'sharp edge' of the tab?

Do you secure the velcro to itself in either of the two positions? Open neck or loose neck?

I will give feedback to the designers based on your response.

Suz, I would have to say that the sharp edge of the velcro tabs is typically the culprit, but also the velcro surface if you don't get the to layers lined up correctly. I have even had the folded material stick up and rub against my neck for a day, irritating it. Overall, I find the two velcro adjustment positions to be too loose or too tight, and would prefer to see a greater range of adjustment. I haven't research it, but the neoprene neck looks real comfy.