Which VHF radio?

[Tom Tieman]

Last year, I bought an Icom M72 because of the advice on this board. I took it on Maine Island Trail this summer, 66 days on the water!

The radio has worked flawlessly, although I rarely used it. I only used it once to transmit, but the other party forgot to turn their radio on, so I don't know how well it worked.

A friend of mine wants to buy a radio and asked for advice. I was inclined to simply recommend this radio, but wondered if anyone here had any advice.

Thanks in advance!

[tvcrider]

Tom,

I have owned the Icom M88 for over three years with no problems and I normally wear it right on my left pfd shoulder strap (unbagged). Make sure you check the battery contacts regularly and use silicone lube on the small gasket that protects the contacts on occasion.

If I was to recommend a VHF radio at this moment it would be the Icom M72.

In fact I just suggested the M72 to my brother.

Why?

Bang for the buck. The M72 is a bit cheaper than the M88 and most do not need its land station feature. Other have stated that the M72 buttons are easier to use with gloves on. My hand is fairly small so the M88 buttons are not an issue.

For addition discussion look at this exchange on p.net

http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread...&tid=681205

The lowest total cost (item + shipping) I could find on the M72 was here:

http://www.thegpsstore.com/Icom-IC-M72A-ha...dio-P937C0.aspx

[tvcrider]

I should have also mentioned that ICOM is currently offering a $20 rebate on the M72 until 12/31/07.

[EEL]

The lowest total cost (item + shipping) I could find on the M72 was here:

http://www.thegpsstore.com/Icom-IC-M72A-ha...dio-P937C0.aspx

Actually Hamilton Marine of Maine is selling them for a few dollars less than that. With regard to buying any Icom or Standard Horizon radio always buy when there are discount coupons which there always are every few months.

Agree totally about number and size of buttons for operating radio as being excellent and easy with gloves, cold fingers, for those with big hands/fingers.

Ed Lawson

[tvcrider]

Actually Hamilton Marine of Maine is selling them for a few dollars less than that. With regard to buying any Icom or Standard Horizon radio always buy when there are discount coupons which there always are every few months.

Agree totally about number and size of buttons for operating radio as being excellent and easy with gloves, cold fingers, for those with big hands/fingers.

Ed Lawson

Ed,

Is Hamilton Marine offering some sort of free shipping coupon? In placing a 'dummy' order on their website for the M72 I am come up with a total price of $189.93 including shipping.

Thanks.

[EEL]

The radio has worked flawlessly, although I rarely used it. I only used it once to transmit, but the other party forgot to turn their radio on, so I don't know how well it worked.

I think this comments point to something I tend to harp on as someone who has used VHF handheld radios a great deal in a variety of settings. If you plan on using a radio to communicate when the need arises, then you really need to use it to communicate beforehand as in try it out it to be assured it does in fact transmit properly, that you know how loudly you need to speak to get a decently readable signal out, and you have some sense of coverage while sitting in a kayak and while land shadowed(the signal path is blocked by a land mass such as an islannd or hill ashore from reaching receiving station). Otherwise you may discover to your regret that you are unable to communicate effectively when things are on the line. Something akin to testing lights and batteries periodically.

Personally, I feel you got the best Icom radio among the consumer grade marine handhelds so your suggestion is on the money.

[EEL]

Ed,

Is Hamilton Marine offering some sort of free shipping coupon? In placing a 'dummy' order on their website for the M72 I am come up with a total price of $189.93 including shipping.

Thanks.

Sorry. forgot about the free shipping part and if you buy in Maine there is tax as well.

I let my prejudices get the better of me concerning buying local. <g>

Ed

[jason]

I just picked up a ICOM 72 about a month ago and I would very much recommend it.

-Jason

[Tom Tieman]

...If you plan on using a radio to communicate when the need arises, then you really need to use it to communicate beforehand as in try it out it to be assured it does in fact transmit properly,

I agree, and I do test all of the other equipment I have except the radio transmit. I don't know how to properly test it. Perhaps you can make some suggestions. The people I paddle with do not have radios, although I'm trying to change that. The test would ideally involve asking random strangers to help.

...that you know how loudly you need to speak to get a decently readable signal out,..

(and how close to you mouth you need to hold the radio) I've used handheld radios on construction sites and thought the technique would be the same.

...and you have some sense of coverage while sitting in a kayak and while land shadowed (the signal path is blocked by a land mass such as an island or hill ashore from reaching receiving station)...

I think I have some sense of coverage because I have a cell phone and it fails all the time! In an emergency situation, what else can you do but get into "line of sight"? Do you test for coverage or have you learned from everyday use?

Do you keep your radio on or off most of the time when you are in a kayak? The concensus from the people I've talked to is to keep it off to conserve batteries.

This summer, I had the chance to go up the Bold Coast to Lubec (from Cross Island) and decided against it. There were two main factors in that decision: 1. The tides are ~10ft at Cross and ~20+ feet at Lubec, and it was a full moon! 2. I was not sure if I would be able to raise another radio, either on shore or a lobster boat.

My intuition told me that I'd ride the current and have a fun, easy day! But, I had no basis to know how much impact the following seas (even on a calm day) would have on my boat. I knew that I'd have to do the 20+ miles on the incoming tide.

I also was not sure if there is enough boat traffic to depend on the radio. The Bold Coast is so named because it is one long cliff, with only a few places to hide. There are a lot of ways to block a signal!

[EEL]

>I agree, and I do test all of the other equipment I have except the radio transmit. I don't >know how to properly test it. ......

Aside from having someone runs tests on the radio which is not really a practical suggestion, I would find someone with a radio, make an effort to just use them while paddling and relay to each other how well things are working while experimenting a bit. something akin to playing with boats. You can learn alot. BTW, the CG really frowns on radio checks on Ch 16 which is folks transmitting to ask how well they are copied.

> I've used handheld radios on construction sites and thought the technique would be the >same.

If you hve ued them OK in that setting, then you likely fine.

> .....

>I think I have some sense of coverage because I have a cell phone and it fails all the time! >In an emergency situation, what else can you do but get into "line of sight"? Do you test for >coverage or have you learned from everyday use?....

It isn't really true line of sight, but that is a good approximation given power and height. If you play around you will get a sense of the limitations.

>Do you keep your radio on or off most of the time when you are in a kayak? The concensus >from the people I've talked to is to keep it off to conserve batteries.

I don't have a rule. Keep in mind I am no experienced kayaker so this is just my $.02. On easy paddles it goes in the day hatch. If I think there is a reasonable risk it might be needed, it goes in PFD pocket and I turn it on to monitor the agreed upon channel, channel 16, and if the weather is less than nice I have3 it set to give me WX alerts. If the weather is iffy I monitor for WX alerts which have proven to be very helpful. For example they at times will enable you to continue in the face of ominous stuff as you know the nasties are passing just to one side of you. For multi day trips, I would only have it on when it seemed necessary to save the battery and I would carry a AA Bat tray as well.

>I was not sure if I would be able to raise another radio, either on shore or a lobster boat.

If you monitor 16 in the summer you will on occasion hear some sobering communication problems as in the CG cannot raise a boat that had called or copy is unreliable in less than emergency situations. As for Lobster boats on the coast of Maine...I think a fair assumption is they are not monitoring 16 and they might not hear you over the sound of the engine or the music if they were. Alternative might be to scan to find the chat channel.

>I also was not sure if there is enough boat traffic to depend on the radio.

I have never been up that far, but I suspect it is no place to have to rely on a radio to get the bacon out of the fire. I remember not being able to see another vessel while standing on Halifax Island and that was south of Machias. As John Lull says, when you need to reach for the radio you have used up four of the five rings of safety so you have made some huge errors of judgment or had really bad luck and are down to the last gasp. In such places I tend to get in the old mountaineering mode of keeping a decent safety margin, accept I could get the chop regardless, and assume nobody will come to save me.

Which makes for a fine adventure in wonderful places if it all works out OK.

Just the random thoughts of beginning paddler.

Ed lawson

[Tom Tieman]

...and I would carry a AA Bat tray as well...

Thanks for all the advice.

Is there a AA battery tray for the M72? I found one for the M88 on the internet, (BP-226 - Battery Case for 5 AA Batteries - M88) but not for the M72. I'd get one for backup because my GPS, lights and cell phone all use AA.

[EEL]

Is there a AA battery tray for the M72?

Not to my knowledge. I must confess to being a timid woodland creature. When Gail and I go out we carry two radios one of which has a AA battery tray option although it is not attached normally for reasons given. It and the tray just in case stay in the day hatch in a bag in case the other goes south. The trick with AA battery cases is some radios are only rated waterproof when the regular battery pack is attached. Some radios are rated waterproof with no battery pack attached. Big difference since AA trays are not all that waterproof at best. Carrying an extra full battery pack is a decent solution given how long Li-ION batteries maintain a charge, but I like the KISS aspect of the AA tray option.

At times I also carry my ham radio as a totally separate means of communication. As I said...timid woodland creature.

Ed Lawson

[jason]

Thanks for all the advice.

Is there a AA battery tray for the M72? I found one for the M88 on the internet, (BP-226 - Battery Case for 5 AA Batteries - M88) but not for the M72. I'd get one for backup because my GPS, lights and cell phone all use AA.

Keep in mind that most Radios are not water proof with AA's installed. I keep my radio on when I am on the water even after a 3 day weekend on the water I haven't had it's meter drop to less than a full charge. The M72 has a 7.4V/2000mAh Li-Ion battery pack. For the most part you should keep the radio at 1W moving from 1W to 6W only changes your range ~15%.

-Jason

[Ben Fuller]

Double AA is essential to me as I use these things on other boats besides yaks when I might be a week away from being able to charge.

My old Standard HX 350 has a pretty bullet proof aa tray, which actually was not a tray but a cartridge. The new M34 is which is now available as a with 16 hour li pak, maybe less so. Some O ring grease on the seals of these radios is good. Merits of the 34 is that it floats....but not high. If you put a clip on the lanyard it might not, so use it without the belt clip or hook the belt clip onto some minicell. Also some orange tape on same.

I have had more trouble with the battery case seals on GPS cases. Toasted a magellan and got water into a Garmin 76 C case.

Otherwise still wise to bag them unless you feel compelled to put into a PFD pocket.

[jason]

Double AA is essential to me as I use these things on other boats besides yaks when I might be a week away from being able to charge.

My old Standard HX 350 has a pretty bullet proof aa tray, which actually was not a tray but a cartridge. The new M34 is which is now available as a with 16 hour li pak, maybe less so. Some O ring grease on the seals of these radios is good. Merits of the 34 is that it floats....but not high. If you put a clip on the lanyard it might not, so use it without the belt clip or hook the belt clip onto some minicell. Also some orange tape on same.

I have had more trouble with the battery case seals on GPS cases. Toasted a magellan and got water into a Garmin 76 C case.

Otherwise still wise to bag them unless you feel compelled to put into a PFD pocket.

I keep my radio in my PFD picket thus I like that the M72 is IPX8. If you get a M88 and install AA's in the Option BP-226 battery case the radio is waterproof to IPX level 4. Thus it would require a dry bag. For the money that the BP-226 costs you can pickup an inexpensive radio on sale that takes only AA's and will also require a dry bag. To me it seems like a better backup to have a 2nd radio.

-Jason

[Tom Tieman]

.. To me it seems like a better backup to have a 2nd radio.

-Jason

I like this idea for another reasond too: the M72 does not have weather alerts. The backup radio could be stored in back of the seat, within ear shot and on, leaving the more powerfull M72 on the pfd and at full charge at all times.

[JohnHuth]

Random thread comments:

I've had an M 34 for about three years now. It's a brute and really stands up to a lot of abuse. It's larger, so that might be a drawback.

Normal wear and tear included slightly oxidized charger contacts - easily cleaned. I wear it strapped onto my PFD - no bags. After too much salt water exposure, the sound quality suffered, and I had to give it a 24 hour dunk in fresh water.

In terms of making sure the VHF transmits properly - there is the "radio check" game, which can be frustrating. If you go onto channel 9 or somesuch, and say "Radio check please..over" some kind soul who is in range, should say "Radio check, we read you, over..." This doesn't always happen.

The coast guard doesn't like you to use channel 16, the emergency channel, but that's probably the one channel you want to be sure gets through, and the CG has a lot of repeaters along the coast to guarantee that they receive the signal. So, I'll confess that I will sometimes radio check on 16, after striking out on other channels. Of course, this gets an irate response from the CG radio operators...

I'd seen worse abuses of channel 16, however.

If I'm paddling solo, I will sometimes turn on the VHF to listen on 16, or a channel that's being used by locals (e.g. listen to the lobstermen chatter). Sometimes, I'll periodically hit the weather channel, to get an update. Every so often, if weather is moving through, it's good to get updates.

[EEL]

the M72 does not have weather alerts.

I don't own the radio, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The M72 does have WX alert ability and all these radios do now I think. The problem is its not obvious, as are many features of these radios, and you have to drill down into the manual to figure it out and set up the radio. If you look at pages 17-20 of the manual regarding set mode, etc and then scanning it describes how to do it. It borders on rocket science at first glance. <g>

I think once you have things done it set mode it falls in place relatively easy.

One of the reasons I like my Voyager is that unlike the Icom and Standard radios it is user friendly and it is very easy to use such features. It also automatically receives the weather alert message as opposed to simply alerting you. There are several things I dislike about the Voyager, but others would do well to adopt Uniden's approach on this issue. Features like WX alert are of no real use if it is such a pain to get them working properly that nobody uses them.

As John said, when there is serious weather about, having WX alert on can be very helpful. For example, this past summer I was a few miles off Stonington and it was obvious there were major storm cells on the way (we are talking fast, major black clouds and visible lightening). the WX alerts were coming in every 5/10 minutes it seemed and they gave me enough info (location, direction, and speed) on the worst cells that I could deduce we should have time to race back before they hit the area which we did with about 5 minutes to spare. The cautious alternative without that info would have been to hunker down, wait for the storm to pass, and then head back which might have been in the dark. I must say it was invigorating to be paddling toward the ink and lightening/thunder and to feel the air getting cooler, but alls well that ends well and the WX alert is to be thanked for that.

[jason]

I like this idea for another reasond too: the M72 does not have weather alerts. The backup radio could be stored in back of the seat, within ear shot and on, leaving the more powerfull M72 on the pfd and at full charge at all times.

The M72 does have weather alerts. You need to enable them. Hold the SQL button as you turn it on. Hit the SQL button until you get to the item that is something like WA OFF hit the up key it will now say something like WA ON. Hit the SQL key then ch16 to exit the program mode. You can also turn the 2 channel scan into a 3 channel scan when your in the programing menu. I monitor 16, 9 and normally 72

This is from memory, If you need a hand with the programing let me know I would be glad to view my radio and talk you through programing your radio over the phone just drop me an e-mail jason at kates dot org.

-Jason

[rick stoehrer]

As John said, when there is serious weather about, having WX alert on can be very helpful. For example, this past summer I was a few miles off Stonington and it was obvious there were major storm cells on the way (we are talking fast, major black clouds and visible lightening). the WX alerts were coming in every 5/10 minutes it seemed and they gave me enough info (location, direction, and speed) on the worst cells that I could deduce we should have time to race back before they hit the area which we did with about 5 minutes to spare. The cautious alternative without that info would have been to hunker down, wait for the storm to pass, and then head back which might have been in the dark. I must say it was invigorating to be paddling toward the ink and lightening/thunder and to feel the air getting cooler, but alls well that ends well and the WX alert is to be thanked for that.

come on now, if you have major black clouds and visible lightning do you really need a WX alert to tell you that there's weather moving in?

you made it back with 5 minutes to spare - man plans, god laughs. sounds like fortune ed. and fortunately a few miles off of stonington are, i dunno, what, a bizillion islands to hunker down on? so some of the crossings musta been modest...which is i guess what the plan was if that lightning you could see happened to suddenly (as lightning is...sneaky and sudden like) be a lot closer?

[Bill Gwynn]

Normal wear and tear included slightly oxidized charger contacts - easily cleaned.

How do you clean your contacts?

[Guest _rick]

clean contacts with pencil eraser.

[Tom Tieman]

The M72 does have weather alerts...

-Jason

Wow! Thanks!!

Very easy to set up, I wonder what else I've been missing!

[EEL]

come on now, if you have major black clouds and visible lightning do you really need a WX alert to tell you that there's weather moving in?

No, but this summer on three occasions been able to ascertain that the uglies were going (hopefully) to or were passing at a safe distance and without that I would have to have taken different action.

and fortunately a few miles off of stonington are, i dunno, what, a bizillion islands to hunker down on? so some of the crossings musta been modest...which is i guess what the plan was if that lightning you could see happened to suddenly (as lightning is...sneaky and sudden like) be a lot closer?

Leave it to someone who knows to spoil a perfectly good story. <G>

Yeah, lots of places to bail and does not take long to cross the Thorofare which was the final go-no go decision point. I have a great picture of the storm approaching as we headed to the town dock. Will try to post it later. BTW, we did hunker down for an hour only 20 minutes from launch site on another day that week so we really are timid woodland types.

The point I was making is WX alert information can be very valuable in the decision making process although it can lead to cutting the margins closer. But all technology does that...I mean would you surf into a rock garden in a SOF...but a nice strong FG boat...no problem...sort of.

Ed Lawson

[bob budd]

Pencil erasers contain mild abrasives that are commonly used to clean contacts. What many are unaware of is that pencil erasers also contain sulfites and other chemicals that hasten oxidation of the contacts after they have been cleaned. Contacts should be cleaned with alcohol or another solvent that leaves no traces behind (and does not attack metals) after using the eraser.