billvoss

L-3 trip based upon distance (23+ miles)

Doug, if you expect to paddle 23+ miles, I believe you are proposing an L-4 trip. NSPN paddle levels indicates a distance of 20+ miles for an L-4 trip.

Enjoy your trip. It sounds fun, but 23+ miles is too far for me this early in the season. I'll stick with Al's L-3 trip this Saturday.

Hi Al,

I emailed you contact information. I propose trying to arrive at the parking area around 9:15am for a projected launch between 9:45am and 10:00am, then adjusting trip length as needed to get you home on time.

What time do you need to be landing back at the put-in to preserve domestic tranquility?

By the way, I assume we will stop on some island to eat lunch?

Looking for interest in a paddle this Saturday at a 3/3- level.

I'm interested.

My hope is to go out of Wintrop and head for the Harbor Islands.

I'm not quite certain where you intend to launch. I was not able to reconcile the NSPN put-ins directions for Winthrop with Google maps intersection 145 and Shirley St.

Need a relatively early launch: 9 to 10 AM.

I'm driving from NH, and not known as a morning person. So I would strongly prefer the latest launch that works for you. I should be able to handle BIB at 10am.

It was a swell time.

Definitely. I certainly had a swell time in the swells. I would also like to again thank all the volunteers who made it possible.

-Bill

Anyone know of any other places close by that offer classes in rolling?

I don't know who is running the clinic, but according to their website, AMC Boston is holding a Kayak Rolling Clinic

Tuesday, July 17 & Thursday, July 19, evenings

Fees: $45 for AMC members ($55 non-AMC members). For kayak rental, add $15 to fee.

They say "This clinic is for whitewater kayakers only." However, lots of NSPN paddlers enjoy both WW and Sea kayaking. If you are willing to learn in a White Water Kayak, they would even rent you one of their kayaks.

For this to work, you must be committed to a "control hand" that does not shift position.

The above is the only part I disagree with. Though just like picking one roll on one side, picking one hand in one position would probably make learning easier at first.

In addition, during all this practice, you will develop a feel for pressure on the paddle blade and your body will begin to figure out how to rotate the blade until the desired pressure is achieved - all without thinking about it.

Exactly.

The first thing I do is take my boat off the roof. It either goes directly into the basement, or if dirty or salty on blocks for rinsing. Then I get the garden hose. It has an on/off/adjustable nozzle, but is definitely not a high-pressure hose. I rinse down the whole car, and the boat if I have not already taken the boat inside.

In my car, most of my wet gear is either in my two big combination float/dry-bags, or in my Cressi Gorilla Duffel Bag. I extend my car's Thule Outrigger, and hang my big dry-bags from it. The outside of those bags get rinsed if dirty or salty. The Gorilla bag goes on the driveway, and the hose starts filling it. While that is happening I carry in the dry gear, and items headed for the washing machine. Then I carry in those big dry bags which have now dripped fairly dry. They get hung in the boiler room, which thanks to a power-vent on the boiler is always the warmest and driest room in the house. The drysuit gets hung over the Outrigger and rinsed with the hose. The other items get dunked in the Gorilla bag, hung to dry on the the car or Outrigger, then transferred to a wooden drying rack or other hooks in the boiler room. The boots and neoprene gloves go on a power boot drier originally purchased to dry ski boots. It the boat did not come in first, it comes in last after draining as much as possible.

Usually, the gear is still on the drying racks when I start packing for my next paddle.

For me, maybe because I use a wing paddle, it takes me too long to acclimate to a different feather angle. Perhaps it's just because of the characteristics of the wing.

It took me months to feel comfortable switching feather angles.

Bill, <personally> I think you're crazy to be changing your variables all the time! Surely your forward stroke should be your one constant? To quote from <the other> parallel thread, in the wise words of a senior member here (by which I mean he has been paddling a long time and is as highly qualified as is possible):

<Pick an angle and stay with it. I like 60 deg...

<If you start changing feather angle to wind speed you will swim more.....

<You want to know that your bracing and roll is as good as can be and a slice can mean a <swim. (End quote)

I think he's right!

I've heard the same thing about rolling. All my early instructors wanted me to pick a side, pick a roll, and stick with it. I insisted on practicing both sides at my first lesson, and have gone the Greenland path of learning multiple different rolls. I will cheerfully admit that I would have more quickly achieved a reliable roll if I had followed the one side, one roll advice. However, last Saturday in shallow water with breaking surf, I needed a forward finishing off-side roll to avoid a wet exit. The water was too shallow to change sides or to use my original sweep roll. I was very happy to have a variety of rolls on both sides that day!

Surely your forward stroke should be your one constant?

Even if all I'm using is my Greenland paddle and a forward stroke, my stroke changes around. I can vary the cant angle, and even the cant direction. I can cant the paddle to slice out like a wing, or cant the paddle the other way and slice in. I can use a high angle, or a low angle. I can switch "control" hands. If I'm dealing with windcocking, I can shift my grip towards one end of the paddle, giving me a bit of a sweep stroke on one side, with a high angle stroke on the other. If I want more speed, I can use a narrower grip and a fast turn over. A nice wide grip with a slow cadence will let me rest. I can lean forward and add more crunch and torso rotation like a racer, or lean back like a beginner in a recreational boat. Most of those changes move around the load on my body, and/or adjust how much bracing versus propulsion my forward stroke is providing. Some of those changes I make consciously, but many are now automatic. I can assure you, my forward stroke is definitely not a constant.

If my Greenland paddle gets boring, if I brought it, I can switch to my Euro blade and also adjust my paddle's feather and length, in addition to all the adjustments described above except paddle cant angle.

A GP stick has about half the surface area of a Euro paddle. But if you feather the Euro blade sufficiently, it’ll have a smaller surface area than the stick.

While I can feather my light-carbon-fiber-Euro blade to handle steady wind from a relatively constant bearing, my heavier GP stick practically ignores those unexpected gusts which sometimes catch my Euro. The different paddle weights may contribute to that effect, but the different shapes seem to make a significant difference.

Someday, I need to make myself a GP storm paddle. That seems to be the ultimate choice for fast-shifting-confused winds.

On first thought, I wonder how much the paddling angle (how high the paddle is held) is going to depend on width(how much rocker) and even more so the height of each boat. Can't wait to get home and try out two different boats to see how much of a difference.

Paddling angle definitely depends on the boat's size relative to the paddle's length. Give me a short paddle relative to the boat, and I will mostly paddle at a high angle. Give me a long paddle relative to the boat, and I will mostly paddle at a lower angle. My euro paddle has 10cm of length adjustment, and that is enough to significantly influence my paddling angle.

Regarding feather angle, I'm the only person I know who does this. However, when I'm using my euro paddle, I try to paddle about half of the trip with a "right" feather, and about half of the trip with a "left" feather. I also mix up the feather angle. I usually use around 30 degrees in calm conditions, closer to 45 degrees in windier conditions, and will go to 60 or even 90 degrees in very windy conditions. Though for the past year I have preferred to use my Greenland paddle in windy conditions. It took a few months, but now my subconscious pretty much automatically adjusts to any feather angle within a few strokes. I like keeping the flexibility, and I like spreading the load around different muscles and joints.

-Bill

Thanks, Bill. I’m not sure that what you say is completely consistent

Hi Leon, I edited your quote to improve its accuracy for brevity. At the moment, I don't even know how I execute the forward stroke. I'll have to pay attention the next time I go paddling.

By the way, nice link. Improving my forward stroke is definitely one of my goals, and Brent Reitz's page definitely has some ideas for me to compare against what I actually do.

It seems both you pushing it down fast and Brent spearing the salmon agree that fully inserting the paddle into the water quickly is important. I suspect that I have tended to be lazy there.

I think we all agree that the paddler should not exert effort to make the partially inserted blade act as a brake. Avoiding a braking action seems to require some arm motion. What arm motion is where I think you and Brent's article may differ. You say I pull the paddle back with my arms while my read of Brent's article, and the picture on his page, suggests to me something more like spearing the paddle in at an angle which I think must be followed by pivoting the paddle with the bottom hand relatively motionless, and the top hand moving towards the bow until the paddle is both closer to vertical and the blade is fully submerged.

The best way to ensure the blade gets in the water as far forward as possible is to reallocate the energy from the lower hand to the top hand. If your top hand is sliding the blade in beside your toes, as if thrusting the blade in a spearing motion, the lower hand will not hurry the catch. Intuitively, one wants to start the blade in with the lower hand, which is something to overcome. Changing your attention to the top hand will also help you relax you lower hand, arm and shoulder, which can actually help extend your reach by a few more inches.

So in Brent's terminology, I think unwinding the torso and pulling with the bottom hand should both begin simultaneously after the paddle is fully submerged. However, I think he does move the top hand earlier during his spearing motion.

A tip to think about getting the “pause” going to your advantage, is to really not think of it like “a pause” with anything other than Your Torso….The Hands, Shaft, Blade…everything else keeps moving on a constant, but you need to hold-back the recoil of The Torso a split second, to allow the all of Those Other Moving Parts enough time to engage with the water fully…Specifically burying the blade fully and as far forward as is naturally possible. The Torso-Pause may come to you easier if you think about the movement in these terms.

That sounds a lot like what I was trying to say. You just wait for the blade to fully engage the water, not trying to resist or brake, not trying to pull or accelerate, just letting the blade flow with and into the water with very little effort on your part. This waiting is the "Torso-Pause" phase described in the quote. Then once the blade is fully engaged, you unwind applying both your body's stored elastic energy and your muscle power.

I don't recall where I saw it. However, I recall reading that in competitive rowing shells, the best rowers apply more of their power to the very beginning of their stroke than average rowers do. I suspect the same applies to kayaking. For maximum race efficiency you "Torso-Pause" just until the blade is fully engaged, then give it all you have as quickly as possible.

So I think out loud ... perhaps it would be better to start the pull before the blade is completely buried in the water. Perhaps the experts like Reitz haven’t considered this. I don’t know? More likely they have and they’ve determined that it’s still more efficient to delay the pull until the blade is fully submerged; i.e. the heck with the breaking force.

Perhaps it is just terminology. Just because you "don't start the pull" until the blade is fully submerged does not mean you have to "actively brake" while submerging the blade. Just dropping the blade into the water should cause negligible drag if you do not resist the water as it moves the blade.

If we setup a WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) on the NSPN site would that be of value.

Do you think that you would be willing to contribute?

Article could be posted with pictures for example the short tow topic could turn into a great wiki page with people posting examples of how to to create one etc.

I could see converting something like the Put-ins/Directions page to a Wiki format, to make it easier for more members to expand/update.

However, the board should remain our primary web presence. Besides, I like animated emoticons!

• Rents boats/gear for a day or weekend.
• Get instruction on kayaking.
• Day/Half Day trip in the area to experience kayaking.

Appalachian Mountain Club http://activities.outdoors.org/

• Offers trips and some instruction at a variety of skill levels.
• You can participate in most AMC activities at any chapter without joining the AMC or paying any fee.
• Some chapters can also arrange rental boats.

she would rest and hold on to my stern and try to hold her bow against my hull. Her bow would be just about even with my cockpit … my Q700X is 18 feet long and her SOT was about 9 feet long. She did this and I began to tow her south, probably going only about 1 mph since I was going against a 3.5 mph drift rate and pulling a heavy and wide rec. boat (with a crying teenage girl). Then her bow swung out (she couldn’t hold the position) and I ended up towing her at about a right angle to my kayak. I couldn’t make any headway at all. We tried several times to set up the proper configuration but she was too tired and I didn’t have enough power to tow her sideways.

3. Any other suggestions (including telling me what I did wrong)?

I don't know if it would work, but did you try having her lean across your bow while you pushed, instead of your stern while you pulled?

In my limited experience practicing contact tows, I found a lot of abdominal strength was required when I was in the girl's position near the stern, but far less strength was required if I laid across the towing paddler's bow. Her boat might still have ended up at an angle to your boat, but I suspect closer to 45 degrees than 90 degrees, which might have been good enough.

Before landing, Bill did a roll, and I put on goggles and noseplug and tried my first roll in anything but pool water and freaked out underwater so Bill pulled me back up (thanks!). Have to work on that, I guess.

I appreciated the company. I sometimes get lonely when I'm the only person who practices their roll on a trip.

The rescue was nothing. Don't worry, you'll be rolling in cold water in no time.

It was a very nice trip, and I was very happy to have so many NSPN paddlers attend. Thanks to everyone who attended.

-Bill

Great session Doug, thanks for putting it together. In particular, I'd like to thank Dan, Nancy, Fred and Bill who gave so generously of their time and expertise to get me to my first roll!

Barry.

You are very welcome Barry. Congratulations again on your first roll.

It was a great pool session. Thanks Doug for arranging it, and special thanks to Dan for helping me improve my storm roll.

Thanks for initiating the trip Les. The company and conditions were great, and I had a great time.

Hi Leslie,

I'm bound to join you as well.

-Bill

Check here for just about every Irish female name in existence: http://www.babynamesofireland.com/irish-girl-names

Niamh

niamh “radiance, lustre, brightness.” The daughter of the sea god Manannan she was known as “Niamh of the Golden Hair,” a beautiful princess riding on a white horse. She fell in love with Fionn’s son Oisin (read the legend of Niamh and Oisin) and lived with him in Tir-na-nOg (“Land of the Young”) (read the legend) where 300 years passed in what seemed like three weeks. In 2003 it was the eleventh most popular baby girl’s name in Ireland.

Thank you. Appreciate links on DIV and the suggested pump. Seems it would be cheaper to buy the Atwood pump than DIY so I will check it out first.

Ed Lawson

Definitely let us know how it works out. The little Atwood pump definitely seems inexpensive, reliable, and no construction required. Though it is only rated at 200 gph, versus 500+ gph for most of the DIY choices. Replacing D-cell batteries after every five or so hours of use instead of just recharging a 12 volt lead-acid battery could also get expensive if you use it regularly.

I pumped out a few inches of water from my boat so many times during my last pool session, without ever wet-exiting, that I've been thinking about an electric bilge pump myself. Though a better fitting custom skirt might be as useful in my case.

Here are the web links I've located so far:

• Ralph Johnson SOF Electric Pump photo album
• Gnarlydog searching for bilge
• SOF Bilge Pump by wysedav on Blue Herron Kayak forum
• Dr Blug blog on adding an electric pump
• seakayakwa.org.au's fully automatic electric bilge pump system
• Qajaq USA form thread which includes some bilge pump discussion

The Qajaq USA thread includes the comment by Dave Isbell: Avoid the switch . I have built 2 of these using a rule automatic pump. (West Marine about $60). It has a computer chip that cycles the pump every couple of minutes. if it feels resistance it keeps pumping. If it doesn't it shuts down. To activate i open the Pelican battery case and hook the lead wire up. To deactivate, disconnect the wire. No switch needed.

Personally I'm wondering if I can combine Dave Isbell's simplicity with Ralph Johnson's tube up through the skirt simplicity.

Does DSC capable radios allow you to automatically broadcast your position?

For a kayaking application you would want a DSC capable radio with a built-in GPS. There are also DSC radios without GPS, which would not be useful for a typical kayaking scenario.

For example, the original poster's article referenced the Standard Horizon HX851 (note, I own the prior HX850 model) which is described as having:

• Built-in 12 Channel GPS Receiver
• DSC functions include: Distress call with position, All ships, Urgency,

  Safety, Individual call, Position Request, Position Report and Group call

With the HX851 radio, you lift a plastic cover which is labeled "Distress" or "SOS" and press the button under it. The radio will then send an electronic SOS signal which includes both your GPS position information, and your MMSI number. So the coast guard will know who and where you are. For a coastal kayaker in New England, I would (and did) buy this radio before buying a PLB. (Though the following year I also bought a PLB).

The original article also referenced Standard Horizon HX471S which is described as having:

• DSC Distress call with NMEA GPS position input

The HX471S is a DSC radio. So it to is required to have a plastic cover labeled "Distress" or "SOS." If you lift that cover and press the button under it, the radio will send an electronic SOS signal which includes your MMSI number. So the coast guard will know who you are. However, it does NOT contain a built-in GPS. The phrase with NMEA GPS position input means if you connect a data wire between this radio and a GPS, then the radio will know where you are, and then it can include your position information in a distress signal. That is a reasonable option on a bigger boat, where the radio lives in a charging cradle that is wired into the ship's GPS system. It is not a useful option for a kayaker.

So yes, you can get the behavior you want, but you need a handheld DSC radio with built-in GPS.