Brian Nystrom

>of all the numerous flaws with your post

Ah, yes. I can see by the number you have listed that they must be numerous indeed.

> the most disturbing

>is that you may be under the false impression that men wear

>panties....and union jack panties too boot.

Just you, Rick.

Don't worry, it's just an expression. I'm sure you'll get over it.

;-)

...to get the "cockpit gas" out of your kayak.

It wouldn't be my preferred method. ;-)

>wait...did you just type, "i wasn't aware" you did, didn't

>you? gotta save that one! and for the future if the

>headline reads "man crushed by lorry" ....yeah, that's a

>truck and not a fat lady.

FYI, I lived in England for three years and was back in the UK (Shetland) last year. Although I wasn't familiar with both of the definitions of "weir", I don't think you want to get into a "battle of Britishisms" with me. If Dr. Binks or Sir Godfrey are out there reading this, I know when I'm overmatched and certainly would not challenge either of you! ;-)

>while the hand book and the curriculum is anglo-centric,

>that's okay...it's the BRITISH canoe union.....if you want

>to participate in it, you have to, you know...speak english

>and not american.

True, but if they were teaching in France, would they not teach in French (perish the thought)? The point is that it's important that students understand the terminology of the course. A good instructor can take care of that, but it makes sense to have written course materials that use the terminology that's in common usage in the country where the training is being administered. If Jed is correct that the BCU really doesn't give a rat's behind about teaching here (I have no reason to doubt him), that would explain why no effort to localize the curriculum has been made.

>the BCU is just a system, a structure that gives folks a

>basis of reference...like anything you can take it as

>seriously or as lightly as you'd like and find the wheat in

>the chaff as you come across it.

Certainly.

>but if you want to

>progress within that system then you have to fulfill their

>standards...like learning about low head dams, a rough idea

>that kayaks were hunting craft (regardless of typing) and

>that yeah, sometimes there's bad stuff in the water...

Fine, but why not call it a "low head dam" or discuss giardia, cryptosporidium or or other waterborne pathogens that are significant issues here in the US? Relevence is important.

When it comes to arguing ad nauseum, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, my friend. All I originally asked was whether an assessor would actually flunk a student for not knowing some relatively trivial facts and terminology. I doubted that was the case and simply asked for verification of my suspicion. Perhaps it was completely lost on you, but I was giving BCU assessors the benefit of the doubt, assuming that they would make reasonable judgement calls when dealing with students in the US. Instead, a few of the BCU faithful have chosen to get your "Union Jack" patterned panties in a wad and defend the "holy word" of the BCU curriculum to the death, ignoring the simple answer that would have ended the discussion quickly. So, don't try to blame me or anyone else for the length or direction of this thread.

...for actually answering my question. Your experience is what I expected would be the case. Common sense reigns.

Have you considered offering this in another format, such as MPEG? I've found Quicktime to be an invasive pain in the butt since Apple bundled ITunes with it. I've had to remove it from both of my systems in order to avoid constant hassles with it.

Shawme-Crowell is just down the street from "Casa Linda". It might be convenient for linking up before the trip.

...to never paddle the Charles! ;-)

Three star is flatwater skills, so no, it doesn't indicate any particular level of comfort or skill in open ocean conditions.

As for the curriculum, yes, the BCU is a British club, but if they're teaching and certifying in the US, they should adapt the program materials used here to the conditions, terminology and so forth present here. That doesn't mean changing the skills taught or the basic procedures of training and certification, just making accomodations for the country they're teaching in.

Hey Nick, good to see you here!

I wasn't aware that "weir" was another term for low head damn. When I saw the term, I immediately thought of a fishing weir, which is not a damn but a large fish trap. Your point about low head dams is well taken.

If you can get leptospirosis from stepping in sheep dung, perhaps I should get checked out, as should Scott, Linda and Beth. It seemed that anywhere there was grass in Shetland, there were sheep! ;-)

...at least compared to other more important topics.

While I find a paddling "trivia" to be interesting as you and Paul do (I've got ~50 related books and videos), I don't see where these questions have any real bearing on one's ability to paddle skillfully, safely and responsibly, which is the emphasis of BCU training, isn't it? It strikes me that these subjects are even less relevant than the often-lampooned requirement for a "flask of tea", which is at least reasonable in nothern climes. If one is serious enough about paddling to go through 3* training and assessment, one will naturally acquire peripheral knowledge of equipment and conditions that's pertinent to the area one paddles in and the type of paddling one does. In that light, these "standardized" questions, probably written decades ago for the British paddling environment, seem rather silly. If the BCU wants to keep this material in their curriculum as a nod to their roots, I guess it's harmless enough and I find it rather quaint and amusing, sort of like watching a "Leave it to Beaver" rerun. But to include it as part of an assessment???

To address the four specific questions, in question:

- While it's true that there is actually a weir on the Lamprey River in Newmarket, NH (the only active one on the east coast, IIRC), it's pretty obvious when you see it that you shouldn't paddle into it, even if you don't know what it is.

- Does anyone here know of a case of leptospirosis?

- The BCU's wetsuit explanation is incorrect and parrots a common misconception. Neoprene actually insulates due to the bubbles trapped in the material.

- It's spelled "Aleut", not "Aluet", though perhaps that's just a transcription error.

Wouldn't it make more sense to query students about more "universal" and arguably much more inportant topics such as hypothermia, hydration, sun protection, floatation in kayaks, etc. as part of an assessment instead? You could cover these subjects while you relax and sip your tea! ;-)

Seriously, doesn't it seem like a bit of updating is in order?

(Please pardon my ignorance if these subjects are already covered during assessment.)

But back to my original question. Would any assessor actually flunk someone for not knowing these things? I suspect that the answer is no, since that's the sensible approach and I would expect that anyone who's risen to the level of assessor understands what's important and what's "fluff".

...would ANY assessor actually fail someone because they couldn't answer such relatively pointless questions? That seems completely inconceiveable.

What I've found is that thick neoprene gloves (I have some 6mm gloves) are pretty uncomfortable to use for paddling, as you have to fight the stiffness of the glove and you need to grasp the paddle shaft harder to get any sense of feel. If I use them for any length of time, my hands ache and cramp. I don't find this to be an issue with dry gloves, which are much more flexible and have non-spongey insulation. You still lose some dexterity, but they have a much better feel.

We all want gloves that will keep our hands warm and comfortable under any conditions, but provide bare-handed dexterity. No deal, everything out there is a compromise.

For cool conditions, I wear whatever 3mm neoprene gloves I can find on sale. I've tried expensive, brand-name gloves (such as Chota and NRS) and have found that they don't work any better or last any longer than the $15 Stearns gloves that Sea Kayaker recommended a few years back.

When it gets cold, I switch to dry gloves. I own Nordic Blues, which worked well for three seasons. Last season, I made a pair of dry gloves by gluing latex seals to Atlas orange gloves purchased from Hamilton Marine, but available at many commercial fishing/marine suppliers for ~$20. They're not as heavily coated as the Atlas blue gloves that Nordic Blue uses, so they're more flexible and have a bit better dexterity. With either pair of gloves, I use Smartwool liners most of the time.

And you know this how???

I can just see a Game Warden trying to lash a few sea kayaks and canoes on the roof of his state-issued SUV. Yeah, that'll happen. On the other hand, bird watcher's optics and hiker's boots could be in jeopardy! ;-)

Regardless, if this was to become law, I simply wouldn't paddle on freshwater in NH anymore, which I basically don't do anyway.

The Fish and Game department only has 48 full-time conservation officers. They can't keep up with poachers, polluters and other offenders as it is, so there's no way they'd ever be able to enforce any fees levied on kayayakers, hikers and birdwatchers. Increased revenues would be solely due to people who voluntarily paid the fees. Given the NH citizens' record on resisting taxes and fees, it's not likely to be a big revenue generator.

There's actually a record for this and it's some ridiculous number. I've seen Greg Stamer rip off a bunch of consecutive hand rolls at around a second apiece, pretty much one continuous roll. It makes me dizzy just to watch him.

...which is why I brought it up. Unless you're willing to use a skirt with a heavy rubber rand and/or Kevlar reinforcements, you can expect damage, as neoprene does not hold up well when it's pinched between hard surfaces. Reinforced skirts are designed for plastic boats and can be difficult to get on and off of fiberglass coamings.

Michael, Kate, Linda and I spent a beautiful day Monday bouncing around on the north shore of Cape Cod between the mouth of the Canal and Scorton Creek inlet. The north shore has miles of sandy beaches that are normally pretty placid, but northerly winds kick up a good chop and the inlets can be pretty chaotic when an outgoing tide opposes the waves. We had 1-3'+ erratic chop every 4-5 seconds with only mild winds. Surf rides weren't plentiful or long, but they were available. Lot o' fun! It reminds me of Cape Ann under similar conditions, except without all the rocks!

We were commenting that it would be a perfect place for a rough water workshop, as the water is quite warm (70-ish) and landing conditions are pretty benign, should a mishap occur. The downside is that it's not as reliably rough as some other areas, but when northerlies are predicted, it's a good bet. It's also not too far to Wood's Hole, if something even more interesting and predictable is desired. Overall, it's a good, safe place to practice rough water skills before attempting something like The Race.

...but you've got the technique correct. Assuming the upturned boat is on your left side, you put your left hand on the keel for support, lean over and grab the boat by it's "snout" (not the toggle or deck lines) with your right hand. At that point, the upturned boat is supporting you and you are fully committed to it. This seems to be what many people who have trouble with this technique fail to do. They try to stay upright while grabbing the other boat and pull it straight up, which simply doesn't work. The next step is to use your hips to rock yourself back upright, which entails pulling YOUR boat UNDER the capsized boat as much as lifting it over your coaming. It's all about leverage and it's easier to do than to describe, particularly if you use the method that David described of lifting the inverted boat with the edge of your coaming.

Having a high bow in your face and a boat rocking around on it's keel in your lap can be rather dangerous in rough water. I can't say I know of anyone who's gotten their nose broken or lost any teeth doing this, but the potential for such injuries certainly exists. By comparison, an inverted boat is more stable when it's resting across your deck, it helps stabilize the rescuer's boat and the bow is low and out of your face.

Another downside of the upright method is that dragging the narrow keel across a neoprene spray skirt is bound pinch it against the coaming and put holes in it. While that may be a less serious problem than the rescue at hand, it's still best avoided, as it can cause problems later on.

On the other hand, if pulling the boat across in the upright position is the only technique that works for you, it's defintely better than not being able to perform the rescue.

It sure was a great day with fine company. While the harbor was challenging, it's no different than other large harbors on a beautiful summer weekend. I agree that it would be a beautiful place to paddle in the fall when the boat traffic has abated. The International Yacht Restoration School was really interesting, especially if you're into boat building. Hanging out at the Jazz Festival was a blast! It almost make me wish I had...dare I say it...a sit-on-top. Almost. Maybe we should tow a raft with a cooler next year? ;-)

For those looking for a culinary treat, Becky's BBQ in Middletown, RI is THE BEST! Lip smackin', finger-licken GOOD. The barbecue beans alone are worth the trip.

Sheesh.

While I wouldn't call it "harmless", it seems like typical grumbling they might do when they think no one is listening. Had I been in that situation, I might have been tempted to break into the conversation simply to mention that "kayakers have VHF radios, too". That probably would have ended the conversation in a hurry.

I don't want this discussion to turn into a critique of people's boat choices or a referendum on who gives good advice and who doesn't. The bottom line is that it all boils down to individual choice, There is simply too much variation in size, strength, technique, usage, typical paddling conditions and personal preferences for any of us to be able to determine the ideal boat for someone else in an online discussion. It highlights the need to paddle prospective boats under the conditions you plan to use them in order to determine the best compromise...and they're ALL a compromise.

The list I posted is completely arbitrary and is meant to be only a guideline. Feel free to add/delete boats as you see fit.