Advice needed: GPS unit with long battery time

[Lynn and Mikael]

Hi,

We are looking to buy a waterproof handheld GPS unit to bring on kayaking trips for logging purposes mainly. There are so many options which is why we are posting it here. What we are looking for is a unit with good battery time (color screen not needed) and the possibility to generate images on the computer with a map overlay that shows our trips. I don't know if the GPS units come with software for this or if that is software you buy separately.

What GPS units/softwares are you using for these purposes?

Any input in this matter is welcome!

PS We used to paddle (and post on these boards) many eons ago and we just recently started paddling again. It feels great!

[lhunt]

Hi, Lynn and Mikael,

I use a GPS every time I paddle to keep track of speed and distance. I have taken it on every trip I've ever taken (with very few exceptions) since I started paddling in 2009, and I always download the trips, so I have a complete GPS log since the beginning. I download tracks onto my computer, then sometimes also transfer them to Google Earth and from there to Google Maps. Like this old sample of many paddles in 2009.

I use a Garmin GPSMap 60CsX which I bought for hiking. It has a compass and altimeter, both of which are useless for paddling. Looks like now the equivalent, without compass or altimeter, is the GPSMap 62. I also use a GPSMap 76 (looks like the replacement is a GPSMap 78). That is exactly the same as the GPSMap 60 except that it floats, the case is less robust, and it's a little cheaper. My Garmin came with MapSource software which, while a little old fashioned in look and feel, is very very useful for logging and analyzing speed, etc. For example, if you forget to turn the thing off after paddling, you can edit out the drive home (can you tell I've done that many times?). I think Garmin now relies on a web site called GarminConnect, which is easier to share but not very flexible to use. That's too bad - probably it's possible to get a free copy of MapSource if you have a device, I'm not sure.

However, you can download directly from your GPS onto Google Earth, and there are other free programs out there like EasyGPS. I haven't used that one, or any of the newer ones, but I'm just saying you aren't stuck with what the manufacturer sends you.

The GPSMap takes 2 AA batteries - I use rechargeable NiMH batteries. If you get a good recharger (that does the batteries individually rather than in pairs) it's very convenient. A set of new batteries lasts for well over 10 hours. I've never used them up, so I don't know the limit. NiMH batteries can be topped off (they have no memory), so that's what I do every time. Alkaline batteries are a bad idea in cold weather, by the way. They don't give up their juice fast enough to keep my GPS going if it's below 40 degrees or so. The NiMH ones have been fine in those conditions.

The GPSMap is supposedly "water resistant", but it's probably not resistant enough for paddling. Also, salt water will ruin almost anything in time. I keep mine in an AquaPak drybag, and it has been no problem at all. Again, time is against me - they stopped making that particular bag, but I'm sure if you look around you can find something that fits. (This one doesn't, by the way, not even for the GPSMap 76 they show in it in the picture!) The GPS/drybag combo floats, too.

I mentioned the compass - if you are getting the device for paddling you should get one without a compass. The compass messes up the GPS's native ability to project the correct ferry angle in a cross current or wind. And the compass doesn't work well in a kayak, anyway, because you have to hold it level. So a separate (real) compass is much better. If you end up with a compass in your GPS for one reason or another, disable it when paddling. Note that most GPS's have a "compass" screen even if there isn't an internal magnetic compass, so don't be confused by that.

The color screen is helpful - makes it easier to see the "find" pointer if you use it. I don't think there are many black and white GPSs out there at this point, anyway.

Other features of my GPS which are good for paddling: It has tidal stations with current data. You can do a "find" on a tidal station (there is often one in the nearest harbor, which is very convenient in a pinch), but it also can display a graph of the tides over time, if you forgot to look it up before you left home. It can, as I say, give you a straight line in a crosswind or current. It can tell you how far you have to go, so if you're fighting a strong current or wind you can see if you are getting anywhere. It can help you find the right channel in a marsh.

My main complaint is that it has very low precision. Internally it knows exactly how fast you are going (or, at least, what your average speed was over the trip), but it will only tell you to the nearest tenth of a mph. Same with distance - over 10 miles it stops giving you hundredths. After an hour it stops giving you seconds. Ugh. Even the MapSource software does that, which is just stupid. Oh, well, I have ways around it.

Every time I talk about the GPS, I have to say, of course, don't rely solely on a GPS to get you home on a dark and stormy night! You need compass and chart, too, and you need to know how to use them, if you are going to do anything alone, or in unfamiliar waters, or go anyplace dangerous or disorienting or at night. I use my GPS as you say you want to - mostly for logging or for convenience. If I go anywhere unfamiliar, even with a group, I always bring a backup. Anyway, it's a caveat worth repeating.

I guess that's long enough for a very brief question. Sorry to be so long-winded. Welcome back to life of paddling!

Lisa

[Lynn and Mikael]

Hi Lisa,

Wow! Thanks for that detailed answer!! I never thought of Google Earth. That seems like a great idea.

Yes, we have a battery charger like that and we are also hooked on the Eneloop (slow drain) batteries which keeps their charge for months.

By the way, your trip log from 2009 is very impressive!! Was that your first year of paddling???! Huh... You even did the Rye to the Isles of Shoals... We have paddled in that area many times (Rye, Kittery etc) but we are far from the level that we could cross over to those beautiful islands. We did paddle from Rye to York harbor once and that was an amazing trip. We also paddled in the Portland, ME, area (to MIKCo) a few times and that area was also amazing.

We started paddling in 2002 and kept it up until 2005 when our oldest son was born. We now have two sons and they are old enough now to join us in our boat when we paddle in local lakes and rivers. We have a sit-on-top Tequila triple kayak (they share a seat) so it works out great.

Thanks again for your suggestions!!

/Lynn and Mikael

[lhunt]

Was that your first year of paddling?

2009 was my first year of sea kayaking, but I paddled a rec boat a couple of years before that for exercise in my local river. Once I started in the ocean it was partially to train for racing, which is why I put in so many miles. That, plus the fact that I got totally addicted :-)

I was also lucky enough to have someone (LeonG) to train with, so I didn't do any of those trips alone.

Good luck with the GPS decision, feel free to ask more questions, and happy paddling!

Lisa

[Lynn and Mikael]

Ah, that makes more sense. We sold our sea kayak a few years ago but when our kids get older we'll get back to it. Thanks again!

[Dabend]

I have been using a Garmin Foretrex 201 (there are others that have more bells and whistles) for the last 10 years. It straps to your wrist like a watch and is everything I ever need. It's always there, it's hands free and its very accurate. Great for checking speed, distance to target, heading etc. And you can plug it into your computer to transfer data. A bit low on the durability scale as I'm on my third one (the water seal is not completely bulletproof) but it is reliable for about three years at a time which, given its reasonable price, is acceptable as far as I'm concerned. It is not a GPS for people who like to see colorful charts and where they are on located on them. But that's what I'm supposed to be doing with my real charts anyway. Buy one and I promise you will never want or need another GPS for kayaking.

d

[lhunt]

Buy one and I promise you will never want or need another GPS for kayaking.

To each his own, of course. But you can get an older GPSMap 76 for about the same $. It has a bigger screen and can be mounted to your deck so you can actually see it while paddling (OK, you could mount the Foretrex that way, too, but it's harder to see). Better access and a bigger screen give you more ease of use if you want to see your current speed or distance traveled, or time (for a race), or track your progress towards a waypoint, or give you a good ferry angle to make a straighter line in a crosswind.

The GPSMaps have a "big numbers" option that reduces the number of fields on the main page in favor of really big digits. It's great when you are wearing salt-colored glasses.

I don't think seeing my position on a map is actually all that useful, normally, except as a tie-breaker when two people in the group are arguing about the name of an island :-). But the goto pointer is a nice thing sometimes. And speed is nice. For example, if you normally paddle at 4 kn., and you find yourself going 5 in a tailwind, you know you might be doing 3 on the way back... (Now the math guys are going to get on my case, because it's not exact enough for them, but you know what I mean) Of course, you can get all those data from the Foretrex. In fact, I think it has most of the same features(?) It's a matter of how hard it is to use and to see on the water.

If you prefer navigating by chart and compass and don't want or need the other features, yes, of course, having a smaller device to keep a log is nice.

I'm just saying "never want" is pretty sweeping. It depends on the potential user.

-Lisa

[Lynn and Mikael]

Thanks again David and Lisa for your inputs regarding the GPS alternatives.

After reading up on the models that are out there and taking your suggestions into account I think we have decided that for us the 62 series makes most sense at the moment. The model that seems like the best fit is the 62s as it comes with a card slot unlike the base model. The electronic compass is not needed for kayaking but could be a nice bonus while hiking.

One more question: Garmin sells the Bluechart g2 on a microSD card for the US for about $160. Is that a good card to get for kayaking in our area when we get back into sea kayaking (Essex bay, Portland ME, Rye NH, Glouchester, etc)?

[EEL]

One more question: Garmin sells the Bluechart g2 on a microSD card for the US for about $160. Is that a good card to get for kayaking in our area when we get back into sea kayaking (Essex bay, Portland ME, Rye NH, Glouchester, etc)?

I am curious why nobody mentions the DeLorme GPs units. They seem to be quite good and a good deal given the software and maps out of the box. I believe it comes with subscription card which enables you to download all the NOAA charts most would need.

Being in the John Huth camp when it comes to using a GPS for navigation and not one to wander about marshes, I have never seriously considered one of the more expensive and mapping units. Howver, I have played with the DeLorme units at their store in Yarmouth, ME and it was impressive.

Ed Lawson

[lhunt]

The electronic compass is not needed for kayaking but could be a nice bonus while hiking.

When you get it, you can go to settings->heading, and tell it to "switch to compass heading when below" 1 mph or something like that, for more than x seconds. You definitely want to do this when paddling. It's not that the compass is "not needed", it's more that the GPS will be much less useful with the compass on than it will be with the compass off. You want the device to direct you based on your movement, not on which way you are pointing, because in a boat you can point one way and move another (drift to the side). When hiking, you are more likely to stand in one place and pivot around while you are studying the screen, so the compass can come in handy.

Garmin sells the Bluechart g2 on a microSD card for the US for about $160. Is that a good card to get for kayaking in our area when we get back into sea kayaking (Essex bay, Portland ME, Rye NH, Glouchester, etc)?

I'm hoping someone else will answer this. I don't use the special charts. That's because I don't like the idea of trying to study the charts on such a small screen. If I wanted to use a chart I would prefer a printed one, which gives more context. I guess it's natural to think that the GPS will be most useful as a device to show you where you are on a map, but I normally use it for other things (speed, distance, track log, which direction to head in). On the other hand, I can imagine that detailed charts might be useful. If I were more of an explorer sort (expeditions or unfamiliar waters), I would probably want the Bluechart as a backup to a more traditional printed chart, to be studied when camped on an island, or whatever. Or if you had the MapSource software and a chart in it, you could use the chart beforehand on your computer to map out a track or route to follow, then download it to your device. You can do that with simpler maps, but there is obviously less data (currents, depth, channels, etc.) to start with.

The one situation where I wished I had a chart has been when trying to find the channel into a shallow bay at low tide (think Essex Bay, for example) - if there are a few inches of water everywhere it can be hard to see the channel. But that doesn't happen that often.

I did buy Garmin MapSource topo 2008 maps for hiking, and they have been useful locally and also on vacations elsewhere in the US. If I were doing it today I'd want to research again, as I'm not familiar with what's out there now. Maybe Garmin Mapsource topo 100K is the newer one, dunno. The trail maps on mine vary widely in accuracy. But it's useful to know when your trail is coming near some road or other, and it's good for that. On the water, the topo maps give you a more detailed coastline than if you use the very basic internal maps that come with the device. That's helpful to give you some context while paddling. (Remember that there is a limit to how much detail you can absorb while actually trying to keep the colored side of your boat up.) If you are considering charts, it would be interesting to know if they also contain trail and road information for hiking. One possibility would be to get the device without the charts for now and use it for a bit before deciding.

I am curious why nobody mentions the DeLorme GPs units. They seem to be quite good and a good deal given the software and maps out of the box. I believe it comes with subscription card which enables you to download all the NOAA charts most would need.

The only reason I don't mention it is that I haven't used one, so I can't recommend or even compare to something I haven't used. Also, I like having the same software for a couple of different GPS devices - I have one for my car, one that includes a heart monitor, and my handheld. Maybe there is someone else out there with Delorme experience?

And yes, Ed is right, the maps are expensive! And it's hard to know if they are going to be useful until you buy both the device and the maps and try it out in your local area. I expect someday the land-based applications will be taken over by the smartphone/tablet paradigm, but it may be a while before that solution is ripe for marine use in a kayak on rough water, etc., etc., etc.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Lisa

[Cath]

I am not an expert but my husband is a forester and used garmin for many years. However, he is now sold on Delorme, and uses it routinely. We have PN-60s. It comes with topo maps and we have a map subscription, and can get NOAA charts. The Delorme store is a great place to visit in Yarmouth, Maine. It is on Route 1, right near the Yarmouth exit off 295. I sometimes use it as a "rest stop" as it has bathroom facilities for the public and a cool store. They can answer questions for you and even have free trainings during the week from time to time - I have never made it to a training session but get emails about them.

[lhunt]

I am not an expert but my husband is a forester and used garmin for many years...

Thanks, Cath, that's very helpful. You've certainly persuaded me to check DeLorme out next time...

For anyone who's interested, I just did a battery test of my Garmin 60CSx. Both LeonG and my husband corrected me - contrary to what I said earlier, it is still worthwhile to let your NiMH rechargeable batteries run completely down now and then to "refresh" them. So with that in mind, I put an old, repeatedly topped-off pair into my 60CSx and used it for several 4-5 hr trips, then just left it running on my back porch. End result: 31 hours of summer use on one charge. The batteries are one of 2 pairs I have been alternating between for the last 2 seasons or so.

-Lisa

[...]

One more question: Garmin sells the Bluechart g2 on a microSD card for the US for about $160. Is that a good card to get for kayaking in our area when we get back into sea kayaking (Essex bay, Portland ME, Rye NH, Glouchester, etc)?

Lynn and Mikael,

Sorry about this long overdue response to your question.

I have a Garmin GPS, the Bluechart g2 microSD card as well as the desktop trip planning microSD card. I bought them last year and used them to suppliment my use of nautical charts. Last year I was frequently touring in new areas where I needed to be certain the island I was planning to visit was in fact the island I thought I found based on my navigation skills which were developing. The Bluechart software was perfect for achieving that goal. I can remember three occasions when the software confirmed my location. I also used the desktop planning tool with the Bluechart to locate a place and set a waypoint. I would then upload the waypoints to the Garmin. That way I avoided the possibility of an error in keying the waypoint directly into the Garmin.

I will admit I use the GPS less this year, partly because I know the areas better. My navigations skills are, of course, still developing so I always take along the Garmin. As I venture further down east, I hope to encounter fog and perhaps the Garmin will be one more tool in my tool kit.

Hope this helps,

Warren